Wichita State

[juckerrules]

Here’s what I noticed. Often this year I’ve noticed the same thing. You see UC’s players look like they’re thinking too much. They freeze for a second instead of doing the intuitive move or shot. Like I noticed it with Cumberland last night. He missed a shot, the next time down floor he had an open shot for a second but he froze there with the ball and looked to pass. Too late. Guys look like they are overthinking or scared to make a wrong move. Wichita was the opposite. If you gave a guy a half second opening, Bam! That’s what Broome Brings to the game. He’s not just quick on his feet, he’s quick In his mind. Sometimes a little too quick, he’ll make mistakes, but he’ll make so much more happen that his mistakes are worth it. The team just functions better& quicker when he’s in the game. If you focus just on some of the things he does wrong you miss the overall tenor or of the team which is more productive & more offensive oriented. Last night, I noticed how frenetic his defense was too. He was great! Jennifer was getting schooled. He tries, but it’s just too small, and it makes it hard for the Cats to play offense when the other five guys only have to worry about four UC players scoring. You wonder why UC’s inside guys didn’t have much of a night? If you don’t have to worry about one of the guards hurting you, you’re playing five on four.

 

[cincyguy13]

Here’s what I noticed. Often this year I’ve noticed the same thing. You see UC’s players look like they’re thinking too much. They freeze for a second instead of doing the intuitive move or shot. Like I noticed it with Cumberland last night. He missed a shot, the next time down floor he had an open shot for a second but he froze there with the ball and looked to pass. Too late. Guys look like they are overthinking or scared to make a wrong move. Wichita was the opposite. If you gave a guy a half second opening, Bam! That’s what Broome Brings to the game. He’s not just quick on his feet, he’s quick In his mind. Sometimes a little too quick, he’ll make mistakes, but he’ll make so much more happen that his mistakes are worth it. The team just functions better& quicker when he’s in the game. If you focus just on some of the things he does wrong you miss the overall tenor or of the team which is more productive & more offensive oriented. Last night, I noticed how frenetic his defense was too. He was great! Jennifer was getting schooled. He tries, but it’s just too small, and it makes it hard for the Cats to play offense when the other five guys only have to worry about four UC players scoring. You wonder why UC’s inside guys didn’t have much of a night? If you don’t have to worry about one of the guards hurting you, you’re playing five on four.

I think our inside guys are easy to guard. I think better teams can do it easily. They both can get pushed out to around 15 feet and if they do they can't do much. Gary is slow with his decision making so it usually takes him 10 seconds to do anything. Not bashing either one. Everyone has weaknesses, seems like people have figured theirs out. have to adjust

 

[Cin City]

The first four minutes of the second half sealed our fate. Just my opinion. WSU played pretty good basketball in the first half and yet only held a two point lead. That first 4 minutes is crucial, especially for a visiting team and they answered by scoring 7 straight. I thought the Cumberland offensive foul was suspect, but again, it is what it is. We found ourselves down 9. And yes we made some runs, but WSU had the confidence from that point forward that they could/would win.

 

[waterhead]

its just something people said cause what else can you say?



not going with broome from the start of the season is killing us now, as many predicted and worried it would. its a shame, it really is. this team has so much potential, but its looking like it will not reach that full potential unless this game forces a change.



and its not cause broome is a super star, he did play fantastic today, but its because jenifer is simply not a starting PG at this level. he gives you nothing on either end against this type of opponent. 2 games in a row guys blow by him on defense and he's never brought much to the table of offense.


2 losses that were avoidable if broome was the starter from day 1 (no guarantee they win either of course, but playing the best players tends to help).

This is starting to become way more than just a Jenifer or Broome at PG issue. In my opinion there seems to be a very clear answer to most of it...at least that we can try.

In the beginning I thought we were running Jenifer out there to facilitate the offense in half court sets so we could keep Cumberland and Evans on the wing and we could pass back and forth to see if we could make an entry pass and work the inside out. That is not the case anymore. We now have Evans working from the top of the key a lot and he has been pressing lately and has looked very pedestrian at times doing it. His game is not suited to do that for an extended period although he can be used there on occasion.

So IMO it actually does come back to Broome and Jenifer. Who can make the offense work better against a defense that makes it hard to get into sets (tourney quality competition)? I understand Jenifer is better at certain aspects of defense...but he does get beat at times and just about anyone can shoot a 3 right over him without flinching. He is pretty good at hounding a dribbler. So how far behind is Cane in that regard? Cane is better in the press and if he stops fouling 3 point shooters can get a hand in your face a little better on 3's.

Cane can dribble around and find a crease in the D and make them move. He can get to the rack and score pretty well. He will make a couple of mistakes for sure...but does he make up for them? As we saw with Shamet...he can get his shots off and score some points and there is still plenty to go around for the rest of the team. I would like to see Evans on the wing more so we can kick it out to him and make a higher % of his 3's and make entry passes from the wing. We can always switch to Evans at top of key in late clock situations when it seems appropriate.

Cronin admitted early in the year defense will only get you so far against a quality team...you have to score the ball. We have one of our most prolific scorers on the bench. Let's stop pulling him for long periods of time for mistakes and just pull him out and teach him and then get him back in there. We are going to need Cane. He does not seem to shrink in the big games.

 

[cincrulz11]

The breakdown on when Cane was in vs Jenifer yesterday


Cane's 29 minutes we outscored them 55-42


Jenifer's 11 minutes we got outscored 34-17



now i don't have how many possessions each one played, but its clear we were far better at both ends with cane. they attacked jenifer the same way cane attacked frankamp and reaves.

 

[cincyguy13]

This is starting to become way more than just a Jenifer or Broome at PG issue. In my opinion there seems to be a very clear answer to most of it...at least that we can try.

In the beginning I thought we were running Jenifer out there to facilitate the offense in half court sets so we could keep Cumberland and Evans on the wing and we could pass back and forth to see if we could make an entry pass and work the inside out. That is not the case anymore. We now have Evans working from the top of the key a lot and he has been pressing lately and has looked very pedestrian at times doing it. His game is not suited to do that for an extended period although he can be used there on occasion.

So IMO it actually does come back to Broome and Jenifer. Who can make the offense work better against a defense that makes it hard to get into sets (tourney quality competition)? I understand Jenifer is better at certain aspects of defense...but he does get beat at times and just about anyone can shoot a 3 right over him without flinching. He is pretty good at hounding a dribbler. So how far behind is Cane in that regard? Cane is better in the press and if he stops fouling 3 point shooters can get a hand in your face a little better on 3's.

Cane can dribble around and find a crease in the D and make them move. He can get to the rack and score pretty well. He will make a couple of mistakes for sure...but does he make up for them? As we saw with Shamet...he can get his shots off and score some points and there is still plenty to go around for the rest of the team. I would like to see Evans on the wing more so we can kick it out to him and make a higher % of his 3's and make entry passes from the wing. We can always switch to Evans at top of key in late clock situations when it seems appropriate.

Cronin admitted early in the year defense will only get you so far against a quality team...you have to score the ball. We have one of our most prolific scorers on the bench. Let's stop pulling him for long periods of time for mistakes and just pull him out and teach him and then get him back in there. We are going to need Cane. He does not seem to shrink in the big games.

hopefully cronin just opens the game up, says go play. We can't run have court offense. Haven't been able to in 12 years. Run the dribble drive, what UK has done in the past when they can't run offense, and just let the players play. Cane and jarron would excel. Keith would also. What the alternative at this point. Playing through the post isn't working against good teams

 

[cincrulz11]

2 things are a bit concerning about today



2) they are the 4th best team in the country at preventing offensive rebounds.

im going to quote myself here after listening to mick's postgame. he blamed us losing on our lack of offensive rebounding from our bigs. WSU doesn't allow offensive rebounds. we still rebounded 37% of our misses which is a huge number.



the way they blocked out our bigs allowed jake to get 4 offensive rebounds. offensive rebounding was NOT why we lost this game.

 

[cincyguy13]

im going to quote myself here after listening to mick's postgame. he blamed us losing on our lack of offensive rebounding from our bigs. WSU doesn't allow offensive rebounds. we still rebounded 37% of our misses which is a huge number.



the way they blocked out our bigs allowed jake to get 4 offensive rebounds. offensive rebounding was NOT why we lost this game.

If you have to rely on turnovers, offensive rebounds, or playing perfect defense the entire game, you aren't going to win many games against the better competition.

 

[cincrulz11]

If you have to rely on turnovers, offensive rebounds, or playing perfect defense the entire game, you aren't going to win many games against the better competition.

i just don't understand how you can blame offensive rebounding when we got 37% of our misses, we average getting 38.5%, but wichita state only gives up 22.2% offensive rebounding percent against.


we likely got a much higher percent than we would be projected to get...

 

[waterhead]

I have a serious question about Kyle as well. Sometimes he gets abused on D but let's take a look at what happens when he's out.

Kyle scores 20 points per 40 minutes. He fouls 3.5. He turns it over 2.3.

So we throw in Brooks. 11 points. 7 fouls. 2.8 turnovers.

Nsoseme. 7 points. 5.8 fouls. 2.9 turnovers.


I understand Brooks and Eliel have fouls to give but we don't want them to. We may want them to foul an easy layup but we don't want to see easy layup looks in the first place. When we foul a bad FT shooter it is good...but when their entire team gets in the bonus faster it is bad. Both of those guys foul at a much higher rate and turn it over more and neither can score like Kyle.

Kyle had a tough time with Morris but I think Brooks and Eliel would too. Eliel can move around with a guard pretty well but he ends up fouling if they do make a move...same goes for Brooks.

I am just starting to think let's put our 5 most talented guys out there and live and die with them for the most part. Get them rest when they need it.

 

[cincrulz11]

and please please stop thinking jake can play point. just stop it. even when cane was playing great, we still just gave it to jake the last 5 minutes (and scored 3 points from 5 min mark to 1 minute mark)


jake has 7 turnovers the past 2 games. 3 vs houston and 4 vs wsu. to compare, broome has turned it over 3 or more times once since the beginning of december.



if its about turnovers, then pay attention to who turns it over.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Evans is a better shooter off the ball.

Clark has been way too slow and he refuses to ever take a damn shot.

Broome needs to start and play 30+ every game. That conversation died down bc we were winning. Oh well it's working, don't fix what ain't broke, etc. Ok, well we are losing now. That's enough. Make the change. Coach said that's what he's be doing this year. So do it.

 

[justinhub2003]

Evans is a better shooter off the ball.

Clark has been way too slow and he refuses to ever take a damn shot.

Broome needs to start and play 30+ every game. That conversation died down bc we were winning. Oh well it's working, don't fix what ain't broke, etc. Ok, well we are losing now. That's enough. Make the change. Coach said that's what he's be doing this year. So do it.

I agree. Now cane needs to start. Old formula isn’t working and we need a new one now.

I mean Greg Marshall removed frankamp from the lineup and he is a 5th yea senior bc reaves was playing so much better.

We need to play desperate now. And if they means 30 minutes from cane, Gary and Kyle then so be it

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I agree. Now cane needs to start. Old formula isn’t working and we need a new one now.

I mean Greg Marshall removed frankamp from the lineup and he is a 5th yea senior bc reaves was playing so much better.

We need to play desperate now. And if they means 30 minutes from cane, Gary and Kyle then so be it

It's not that difficult. And we were told all offseason that Broome doesn't get tired. Ok. Then there you go. Keeping the lineup the same scares me to death. I'm pretty much done with the season if we don't change. I have no interesting in listening to Coach get super defensive about it and pretend it has nothing to do with anything. Show us you're at least trying to make this year different. And it's an easy out...Broome can help us more against top competition and we need him on that floor. Plus coach said himself we would be switching lineups all year. I can't sit here and watch us go out like this. Every year someone has to start who has no business starting. Enough!

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I have a serious question about Kyle as well. Sometimes he gets abused on D but let's take a look at what happens when he's out.

Kyle scores 20 points per 40 minutes. He fouls 3.5. He turns it over 2.3.

So we throw in Brooks. 11 points. 7 fouls. 2.8 turnovers.

Nsoseme. 7 points. 5.8 fouls. 2.9 turnovers.


I understand Brooks and Eliel have fouls to give but we don't want them to. We may want them to foul an easy layup but we don't want to see easy layup looks in the first place. When we foul a bad FT shooter it is good...but when their entire team gets in the bonus faster it is bad. Both of those guys foul at a much higher rate and turn it over more and neither can score like Kyle.

Kyle had a tough time with Morris but I think Brooks and Eliel would too. Eliel can move around with a guard pretty well but he ends up fouling if they do make a move...same goes for Brooks.

I am just starting to think let's put our 5 most talented guys out there and live and die with them for the most part. Get them rest when they need it.

Coach Cronin said himself that he needed his defensive lineups out there against them yesterday. That's who he is, that's how he thinks, that's who he'll always be.

 

[waterhead]

Evans is a better shooter off the ball.

Clark has been way too slow and he refuses to ever take a damn shot.

Broome needs to start and play 30+ every game. That conversation died down bc we were winning. Oh well it's working, don't fix what ain't broke, etc. Ok, well we are losing now. That's enough. Make the change. Coach said that's what he's be doing this year. So do it.

You don't have to wait until you are sure something is broken. You can fine tune things by making some adjustments to see if you can make it run better first.

 

[cincrulz11]

We need to play desperate now. And if they means 30 minutes from cane, Gary and Kyle then so be it

welcome aboard friend!

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Coach Cronin said himself that he needed his defensive lineups out there against them yesterday. That's who he is, that's how he thinks, that's who he'll always be.

Speaking of this, we say we have to be able to win any kind of game. We will never beat a team with a good offense if this is our automatic response every time against those teams. "They are scoring at will...bench our scorers!". I don't like that. I'd rather go out with Washington and Broome no matter what. Seeing us lose the last game of the year with Washington and/or Broome playing less than half the game would be 100% unforgivable.

 

[cincyguy13]

Speaking of this, we say we have to be able to win any kind of game. We will never beat a team with a good offense if this is our automatic response every time against those teams. "They are scoring at will...bench our scorers!". I don't like that. I'd rather go out with Washington and Broome no matter what. Seeing us lose the last game of the year with Washington and/or Broome playing less than half the game would be 100% unforgivable.

I think cronin knows we can't outscore teams and tries to counter it by playing great defense. That was fine when he was building a program from the ground up but he never seemed to evolve this in to getting more talented offensive players. He started getting a couple in recent years but still is so focused on defensive things the offense never improves. I don't know the solution.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I think cronin knows we can't outscore teams and tries to counter it by playing great defense. That was fine when he was building a program from the ground up but he never seemed to evolve this in to getting more talented offensive players. He started getting a couple in recent years but still is so focused on defensive things the offense never improves. I don't know the solution.

I have a hard time believing that playing Nsoseme, Brooks, and Jenifer over Washington or Broome is the solution. So we should start there.