JasonS
Football Moderator
Agreed. There is definitely a place in the game for a 15-20 footer but all things being equal, take the three.
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Agreed. There is definitely a place in the game for a 15-20 footer but all things being equal, take the three.
No. Its the single worst expected points per shot in the game. The only purpose it serves is "balance" in that every single shot cant be from the 3pt line or from inside 5 feet or else players become a lot easier to defend.
Sure you'd rather take an 18 footer that's wide ass open if the alternative is getting blocked at the rim, but thats not a real comparison. Thats an unfair comparison. If you want to compare something, then compare wide open 18 footer to wide open 3 pt att.
Do the math. Whats the shooting % difference on an 18 foot attempt vs a 3 pt attempt when all else is equal? I promise its minuscule at best.
But to put this in perspective a a guy making 33% from 3 (.33x 3= 1pt) would need to be making 50% of his 18 footers to breakeven (.5x2= 1pt).
Not many guys shoot 50% from the ENTIRE FIELD and that 50% includes LAYUPS, AND DUNKS.
Lets even use a real example of dion dixon. Ill use last years #s from him + add in this season to get a decent sample size.
Dixon FG/FGa-----------3pm-3pa
10-11 132-318----------48-135
11-12 37-97-------------14-43
Total: 169/415-----------62-178
Total FG% 40.7% Total 3pt% 34.8
We'll round up to make math easy. Thats 41% from the field and 35% from 3.
That means dixon shooting a 3 is worth (3 x .35) = 1.05 points
Dixon making any shot from the field is 41%. (2 x .41) = 0.82 points
Realistically, hes probably not even making the 18 footer at a 41% clip given that 41% is inflated much more by layups/dunks than it is offset negatively by his 3pa.
Think about this for a second. Dixon would have to make that 18 foot attempt at a clip of 52.5% to just breakeven vs his 3pt attempt.
JasonS
Football Moderator
Great post. This backs up EXACTLY what I was talking about.
Of course, however, I don't think they go 1-15 from 3 again this year.
I think the consistency shooting, has more to do with the offense being constrained and over-managed by the staff.
I'm not saying they won't have an off night, but there's no reason for the club to be that bad from 3 again.
I think they have shooters, I also think they need to structure the offense in a way, that isn't centered entirely around Yancy. Whether or not they can actually do that, I don't know. I just know standing around and trying to run at the basket, or jacking up some God awful shot toward the end of the shot clock, because our guards either don't know how to, or don't want to pass it to the post at the start of every set, isn't going to work.
One thing I've noticed, is our kids have length and can get a lot of steals and deflections. If we can get into passing lanes more often on defense, we'd make it a lot harder for people to run their offense and turn it into transition basketball. On half court offense, I think the key is spacing. We can't jus have a cluster of people sitting. We need them spread out.
I'd say that, except I know guys who can hit 18 feet and under in their sleep, who can't shoot from 22 ft, no matter how much they practice.
I also know people who can stand right behind the arc, but not an inch further back.
Yes, on paper it makes sense to say shoot a 3, as opposed to an 18-20 footer, but if it's your shot, that is to say it's what you're most comfortable with, and you know how to penetrate and either ball fake or stop on a dime; you're almost always going to get an open shot and make it.
2 points is better than no points. Some guys can't shoot 3's, better to just go with nature than grind against it, in some arbitrary percentage game.
How many of those guys play Division 1 college basketball in a major conference though?
If theyre almost always making it they should be playing in the nba and be the MVP every year. Kobe Bryant didnt even shoot 50% in nba games last season if you look at all of his jumpshots.
http://www.82games.com/1011/10LAL5.HTM
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Non-sense. Many shooters have a favorite spot on the floor they're money from.
Doesn't mean you'll be MVP, there is a defense they're going against.
Coaches game plan around an opponents strength, and often times, players don't get the ball where they want, in the ideal situation they'd prefer. That's just poorly thought out. A lot of variables come into play besides the shooter themself.
I've watched the Lakers for a while now, and Kobe is an example of someone trying to do everything; when in fact, he's nothing more than a role player. He forces a lot of shit and still manages a decent percentage from the floor, simply on talent. You can't just look at a stat sheet, and assume all of his jump shots are in his comfort range or uncontested. Let's not forget either, some of the defenses in the western conference are pretty damn good.
So now what youre saying is they dont always make it. I see.
Key part really is the big text and yep, that confirms it. Your opinion on basketball is officially null and void after a statement like that.
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I agree with that part. They arent playing open. It seems they are playing tight on offense and are afraid to make plays. Thats why I feel with a transition game or atleast an up tempo game, they will think less and let it fly or make more of an effort to drive the ball to the lane.
Its hard for Gates to be a factor when the outside shots arent falling
No, what I'm saying is, they don't always get the shot they want and some times defenses adjust.
You're not going to get the exact shot you want, every time you get the ball; and to say you are is retarded.........
As for the bolded part, spare me. They've plunged like a rock. He forces shit, he tries to put them on his back and he can't. He's just not good enough. The only people saying otherwise are delusional Laker fans. They need a point guard, they need a big. They have neither. For that reason, they won't be in the finals next year either.
True, the outside shots open things up on the interior and when both are going, we stand to destroy people. I just think our guards are playing like they're uptight. They don't need to. They're very good players for the most part. I think we need to just set them loose.
We don't want to be a pure transition team though. I'm reminded of Dayton under Gregory... They had no half court approach at all, and the moment teams started getting back on defense immediately following shots, things shut down for them.
when u call hands down one of the top 20 players of all time and probably top ten by most accounts a role player, yes that means u know nothing about basketball.
is he currently the best in the nba now? of course not,but there is a reason vegas has them as the 2nd most likely team to win a title this year.
I can't believe someone is actually having me make an argument in favor of kobe, given its normally the other way around with me saying hes not close to jordan bc they think kobes the GOAT
is he currently the best in the nba now? of course not,but there is a reason vegas has them as the 2nd most likely team to win a title this year.
I can't believe someone is actually having me make an argument in favor of kobe, given its normally the other way around with me saying hes not close to jordan bc they think kobes the GOAT
Kobe with no Shaq is good, but not great. When it comes to the offense, there's a reason they wanted CP3.
He's incredibly talented, he's also clearly not a 1 or a 5. Anyone saying otherwise is a clown. Kobe Bryant isn't a center and he can't run an offense.
And until L.A. gets that, they'll be sitting outside looking in. I wouldn't be surpised if they're the 4th or 5th best in the West this coming season. Might as well just accept it. As good as Kobe is, when he got his ass kicked by the Barcelona national team before the start of last season, it became painfully apparent, that LA can no longer win just with him.
I know plenty about basketball... Certainly last year's playoffs show exactly what I'm talking about. OKC was better, Dallas was better, Memphis was better etc. In fact, Dallas out right kicked their ass. Remember game 4? 122-86 and the punches thrown after. Yeah, L.A. is perfect with Kobe and a bunch of average dudes like Lamar Odom. No, they don't need a Dwight Howard or anyone like that... I'm sure they'll manage just fine
Tell you what, hit me up during the finals and tell me how wrong I am.
I'm sure the Lakers won't be attending, unless they're in the stands.
TheLivingLegend
Well-known member
Kobe was handed rings...
How LA fans like him is beyond belief. The man single handedly ruined a dynasty.
How LA fans like him is beyond belief. The man single handedly ruined a dynasty.
Ah, so now its "he wont make the finals" instead of "hes a role player." Man that target keeps moving.
Im not a fan of Kobe but your hatred towards him is skewing your ability to evaluate him as a player. He passes pretty much every statistical test, and the eye test, and from about year 5 of his career on has been an elite defensive player although thats starting to decline now as well.
So where, just where does this alleged role player rank all time? Is he even in the top 50 of basketball players of all time in your book?
Just want to clarify if that was addressed to me.
Im not a lakers fan.
Im not a kobe fan.
No one is handed NBA rings when they are the best (last 2 rings) or 2nd best player on the team (first 3 rings). If anything I'd probably be labeled as someone that's rooted against him and the lakers since day 1 and especially after the "rape"
Yet Im still able to realize that hes an all time great player and someone calling him just a role player is laughable and one of the dumbest things ive ever read about the game of basketball.
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Uh, no. You just keep drawing up strawman arguments, I NEVER made.
I said they won't make the finals BECAUSE he's just a role player.
You can't run everything through Kobe.
Where is this coming from? I hate Hitler. Kobe Bryant isn't Hitler or Mao.
Stop being so God damn dramatic. Between your strawmen and your blatantly false generalizations of my views, and skewing of my arguments; I'm starting to think you're a homer.
And trust me, being an L.A. fan isn't going to be fun this coming season, just like it wasn't fun last season.
"Hate" is a much stronger word than you make it out to be.
Look, he is a role player, in that, there aren't a lot of spots you can play him.
He's a damn good scorer and always has been, but he's not going to win them championships by himself. If he could, they wouldn't waste time trying to get people like CP3 and Howard.
My point with regard to his shooting percentage, is that he shoots a lot of low percentage looks, because they're forcing him to.
He's been trying to carry them, and he alone can't.
He's good, he's not THAT good.
JasonS
Football Moderator
LOL. Funniest thing I have read in a long time.
TheLivingLegend
Well-known member
Funny, but acurrate.
Kobe cant win without a big... but in fairness, neither can every other slightly above average NBA player.
do u really think hes just a role player then and not even a top 50 all time player?
I seriously can't believe that anyone legit believes kobes a role player
TheLivingLegend
Well-known member
Kobe is absolutely a top 50 player of all time..... at his position.