'12 NY PF Christopher Obekpa

[SJUBall]

Valid points NYC baller but you have to remember, we're talking about the recruitment of 17-18 year olds. The last time St. Johns was a perennial NCAA tourney team these recruits were learning how to write their names in cursive. College Basketball is very much a "what have you done for me lately" sport, and St Johns hasn't done anything lately. These kids don't remember Ron Artest (in college), jerseys sponsored by Jordan brand, and wouldn't be able to pick Coach Carnesecca out of a line-up with Mr. Rogers and Pierre Escargot.

SJU fan here. Been reading a bit and don't intend to flame, but want to chime in. Cincy has had one or two solid seasons under Cronin, but let's be straight, Cincinnatti is nowhere near a powerhouse program. SJU finished the regular season 3rd the year before last, ahead of Cincinnati. Last year was a big rebuild and like Mick's first at Cincy. Mick has a losing Big East record in his tenure. This is not a perennial powerhouse Cincy team here.

I certainly like where Cincinnatti is going and what Mick has done over the last 2 seasons. That said, Cincy fans in no shape to look down on SJU. One fan mentions how Cincy bested us last year but fails to mention that we split games last year with SJU starting 5 freshmen and only 6 scholarship players on the roster.

I certainly find the SJU is cheating comments hysterical. Lavin has not been pegged by the NCAA for anything. One prominent AAU guy last year was quoted as saying something to the effect that Lavin might be the single best in-person recruiter in the country and that nobody is better selling a program when in a kid's living room. Take it with a grain of salt if you like, but Lavin will be a contender for as long as he's at SJU.

Cincy fans keep touting tht Cincy is a pre-season top 25 team, but pre-season rankings don't mean much. Most ranking services have SJU ranked somewhere between 12-16th in the league pre-season. Those guys probably don't know that we will have w full roster this year and could be going 8 or 9 deep with top 60 talent.

I love the banter. Just hope Cincy fans will lay off the baseless cheating innuendo which is a cheap excuse when a recruit chooses to head elsewhere. You won't see much of it from SJU fans.

 

[JordanW]

It's Cincinnati, one t. Comparing last year's SJU team to the team Mick took over is comical. Go look up who we had on the court. Before Huggins was ousted we went to the tourney 14 straight years. I think we have been pretty solid before and after the Huggins era. Mick increased the win total every year for like 6 years.

 

[JordanW]

I'm not a fan of the cheating nonsense either without any proof. Wherever this kid lands he'll be a great defensive presence.

 

[bearcat18]

SJU fan here. Been reading a bit and don't intend to flame, but want to chime in. Cincy has had one or two solid seasons under Cronin, but let's be straight, Cincinnatti is nowhere near a powerhouse program. SJU finished the regular season 3rd the year before last, ahead of Cincinnati. Last year was a big rebuild and like Mick's first at Cincy. Mick has a losing Big East record in his tenure. This is not a perennial powerhouse Cincy team here.

I certainly like where Cincinnatti is going and what Mick has done over the last 2 seasons. That said, Cincy fans in no shape to look down on SJU. One fan mentions how Cincy bested us last year but fails to mention that we split games last year with SJU starting 5 freshmen and only 6 scholarship players on the roster.

Cincy fans keep touting tht Cincy is a pre-season top 25 team, but pre-season rankings don't mean much. Most ranking services have SJU ranked somewhere between 12-16th in the league pre-season. Those guys probably don't know that we will have w full roster this year and could be going 8 or 9 deep with top 60 talent.

I don't know where to start with this. "I don't intend to flame, but let me flame anyway." UC isn't a perennial powerhouse, but SJU is because they finished 3rd one year? You only had 6 scholarship guys last year? Don't recruit multiple kids who won't qualify. Boo-hoo. We had 1 scholarship player when Mick took over. We had to find below average JUCOs just to fill the roster.

What exactly has St. John's done lately? In the last 10 years, you have had 4 winnings seasons. And one was 16-15 and the other 17-16. Only been to the tournament 1 year and lost the first game.

UC has had a winning season 8 out of the last 10 years with 5 NCAA tournament appearances. Here's some other fun facts:

1. UC was one of three or four schools to improve their win total the last 5 years before tying their total this year (11, 13, 18, 19, 26, 26).

2. UC has had back to back 26 win seasons. I know this can be debated but we probably could have at least went to the sweet 16 two years ago if we didn't have to play a Big East team (UCONN and Kemba) in the third round of the tournament.

3. You make it sound like being preseason top 25 is a bad thing. Obviously, some teams ranked before the season don't have good years, but I'd obviously rather be ranked than not. It's not a bad thing to be able to tell recruits you are a top 25 team.

4. If preseason rankings don't matter to you, why do recruiting rankings matter, since you say you will have all "top 60" talent? Look at UC's roster from last year:

Yancy Gates - 5 star (#22)
Cashmere Wright - 4 star (#82)
Shaq Thomas - 4 star (#81) ----- Sat out last year
Jermaine Sanders - 3 star (#131)
Dion Dixon - 3 star unranked
Sean Kilpatrick - 3 star unranked
JaQuon Parker - 3 star unranked
Justin Jackson - 3 star unranked
Kelvin Gaines- 3 star unranked
Cheikh Mbodj - 3 star unranked (JUCO)
Ge'lawn Guyn - 3 star unranked
Jeremiah Davis - 3 star unranked
Octavious Ellis - 3 star unranked

UC had 3 guys who played last year that finished in the Rivals top 150. Just because you have a team full of top 60 talent doesn't mean you will win. Sure sometimes it helps but you also won't be the only team with 8-9 guys rated in the top 60.

 

[SJUBall]

I wasn't flaming here. Just saying that UC under Cronin has been good, but not a juggernaut. Only last 2 seasons were above 20 wins. As i said, i like where Cronin is taking the team. SJU fans know well about Cincy's history. SJU hired some real losers during the Huggins era. Huge mistakes were made. Just don't pretend that SJU has no place at this table, and if we land Obekpa it is because we cheated. It has no place.

Rankings of recruits is a whole different world from pre season big easy rankings. Lavin's team last season was left with 1 returning scholarship player and a poor one at that. My point about those rankings us that they're usually quite inaccurate. I think Cincy will be good, but it might be a big struggle to replace Gates.

 

[bearcat18]

Rankings of recruits is a whole different world from pre season big easy rankings. Lavin's team last season was left with 1 returning scholarship player and a poor one at that. My point about those rankings us that they're usually quite inaccurate. I think Cincy will be good, but it might be a big struggle to replace Gates.

What rankings are you even talking about? You say most ranking services have St. John's 12-16th for next year. What services even have next year's rankings out yet? People don't even know what teams' full rosters will look like.

 

[Lobot]

Hmm.. Norvell Pelle, Amir Garrett etc. don't qualify without the "Learning Disabled" tag so they can take summer courses and get eligible. Should I continue with the third player and Jakarr $amp$on?

It's not about Obekpa. It's about the whole SJU program under Lavin.

 

[Helicopter]

It's Cincinnati, one t. Comparing last year's SJU team to the team Mick took over is comical. Go look up who we had on the court. Before Huggins was ousted we went to the tourney 14 straight years. I think we have been pretty solid before and after the Huggins era. Mick increased the win total every year for like 6 years.

Football player, Hurricane Katrina victim, and a bunch of hardworking scrubs.

SJU fan didn't actually see that team. It is nothing short of astounding the turnaround this program has taken from 1999 through 2005 and back again to 2011.

And I'm gonna go on a limb and say he was in swaddling clothes in the 90's.

 

[#BearcatNation]

Football player, Hurricane Katrina victim, and a bunch of hardworking scrubs.

SJU fan didn't actually see that team. It is nothing short of astounding the turnaround this program has taken from 1999 through 2005 and back again to 2011.

And I'm gonna go on a limb and say he was in swaddling clothes in the 90's.

I'm not going to fight you on our team's turnaround, but saying we are "back again" to the 1999-ish teams is nuts. In 1999-00, we were the #1 team in the nation 12 of the 18 weeks of the regular season. Our Sweet 16 appearance was nice and all, but we've got a ways to go. Set the bar high.

 

[bearcat jeff]

I'm not going to fight you on our team's turnaround, but saying we are "back again" to the 1999-ish teams is nuts. In 1999-00, we were the #1 team in the nation 12 of the 18 weeks of the regular season. Our Sweet 16 appearance was nice and all, but we've got a ways to go. Set the bar high.

Rankings aside this team has peformed to the level of the 90's teams the past 2 seasons in the NCAA tournament. Second round with a sweet 16 or better thrown in once in a while. 52 wins in two seasons in a much tougher conference than the 90's teams played in. Let's be real here.

 

[SJUBall]

Hmm.. Norvell Pelle, Amir Garrett etc. don't qualify without the "Learning Disabled" tag so they can take summer courses and get eligible. Should I continue with the third player and Jakarr $amp$on?

It's not about Obekpa. It's about the whole SJU program under Lavin.

You shouldn't throw stones. Cincy has been making headlines themselves. Lavin took some risks on talented kids because he had to fill a roster. This is year 2 of the rebuild and I think you'll find out it's going pretty well. Cincy has taken kids with the "learning disabled" tag too. Don't kid yourself. All programs do. You make negative comments about this program under Lavin but he has been nothing but a stand-up guy. People in college basketball will tell you that Lavin is one of the good guys in the business. Nothing like you're trying to portray.

 

[mplebanon]

You shouldn't throw stones. Cincy has been making headlines themselves. Lavin took some risks on talented kids because he had to fill a roster. This is year 2 of the rebuild and I think you'll find out it's going pretty well. Cincy has taken kids with the "learning disabled" tag too. Don't kid yourself. All programs do. You make negative comments about this program under Lavin but he has been nothing but a stand-up guy. People in college basketball will tell you that Lavin is one of the good guys in the business. Nothing like you're trying to portray.

I know a few people in the college basketball business, and they link Lavin to Jim Harrick's problems at UCLA. Harrick later got in trouble at Georgia. My peeps say the apple didn't fall far from the tree. Always hear that Lavin is slick in a rule-breaking way.

Also, a noted recruiter who's teams typically underachieve, hence his firing from UCLA. Lavin tends to get by on his recruited talent, with little coaching or development. Considered a playboy behind the scenes. Probably why his coaching suffers.

I fully expect Lavin to get in trouble while at SJU. So enjoy. I trust my reliable sources. More than likely, any SJU fan's excitement is accompanied by fear knowing Lavin's past and true reputation. Atleast it should be.

As for UC and Cronin: Cronin is highly respected in the college basketball world for taking on a "death penalty" type situation at Cincinnati, that no other coach was willing to take on. Any jabs at his recruiting, early in his UC tenure, is stupid and without logic, considering the circumstances. Similar to what Tom Crean endured taking over at IU. Two consecutive sweet sixteen appearances by Cronin without exactly an all-star roster is impressive. And his postgame handling of "the brawl" was met with positive applause and comments throughout all of college basketball.

 

[SJUBall]

I know a few people in the college basketball business, and they link Lavin to Jim Harrick's problems at UCLA. Harrick later got in trouble at Georgia. My peeps say the apple didn't fall far from the tree. Always hear that Lavin is slick in a rule-breaking way.

Also, a noted recruiter who's teams typically underachieve, hence his firing from UCLA. Lavin tends to get by on his recruited talent, with little coaching or development. Considered a playboy behind the scenes. Probably why his coaching suffers.

I fully expect Lavin to get in trouble while at SJU. So enjoy. I trust my reliable sources. More than likely, any SJU fan's excitement is accompanied by fear knowing Lavin's past and true reputation. Atleast it should be.

As for UC and Cronin: Cronin is highly respected in the college basketball world for taking on a "death penalty" type situation at Cincinnati, that no other coach was willing to take on. Any jabs at his recruiting, early in his UC tenure, is stupid and without logic, considering the circumstances. Similar to what Tom Crean endured taking over at IU. Two consecutive sweet sixteen appearances by Cronin without exactly an all-star roster is impressive. And his postgame handling of "the brawl" was met with positive applause and comments throughout all of college basketball.

You know people in the bball business, but you give us the same Internet drivel. His playboy days are years ago. He's long been married and is now a cancer survivor. Lavin has the respect of the coaching fraternity from Wooden and Keady on down. They never thought he was a hack like youre describing.Harrick's troubles followed him through several schools. Those were never Lavin's. I really don't know where you're getting all of this nonsense from.


Fwiw, Cronin handled the Xavier situation poorly IMO.. Gates actions were totally malicious and should have been booted from the team. The penalties were laughable and I don't know a college bball fan outside of the Cincy fans like yourself that met it with "positive applause". Not one...

 

[cincycpaw]

You shouldn't throw stones. Cincy has been making headlines themselves. Lavin took some risks on talented kids because he had to fill a roster. This is year 2 of the rebuild and I think you'll find out it's going pretty well. Cincy has taken kids with the "learning disabled" tag too. Don't kid yourself. All programs do. You make negative comments about this program under Lavin but he has been nothing but a stand-up guy. People in college basketball will tell you that Lavin is one of the good guys in the business. Nothing like you're trying to portray.

Let's ask the people that had him for a coach last.

http://www.bruinsnation.com/2011/2/4/1973417/why-we-hate-steve-lavin

Really, I don't care that much about St. John's.

If Steve Lavin is dirty, he and the program will get caught at some point. Let's all just remember 1 thing here. It is O$U that are the known cheaters!!!!

 

[cincycpaw]

Fwiw, Cronin handled the Xavier situation poorly IMO.. Gates actions were totally malicious and should have been booted from the team. The penalties were laughable and I don't know a college bball fan outside of the Cincy fans like yourself that met it with "positive applause". Not one...

Oh please. You have no idea. So, fwiw is appropriate because your opinion doesn't mean poop.

 

[JackBauer151]

Fwiw, Cronin handled the Xavier situation poorly IMO.. Gates actions were totally malicious and should have been booted from the team. The penalties were laughable and I don't know a college bball fan outside of the Cincy fans like yourself that met it with "positive applause". Not one...

This quote has zero perspective. F#cking ZERO. I am so sick and tired of people thinking they have the right to judge people based on one action they saw on sportscenter. It was a fight. It happens between rivals. Was it right? No. Should it have happened? No. But it did. They are kids who made a mistake. It was an extremely emotional game with a hostile setting and it got out of control. It just happened to be on national tv. How would you like it if any of the really dumb decisions you have made (Yes you have made some, we all have) were broadcast nationally on TV and you were forced to relive it everyday and apologize for it everyday? I know Yancy personally and he could not be a nicer guy. His teammate was being attacked and he reacted without thinking. To have him kicked off the team and help destroy his future lacks complete perspective. He made a mistake, he apologized (sincerely I might add), has done everything right since that day, and has paid for it. So your opinion is crap.

As for the rest of this. I dont care about St. Johns. I dont care about Lavin. I think attacking their program or their coach is without merit. Just useless bickering. I dont know what is true about Lavin and I dont care. Until he is accused and found guilty of something it doesnt matter. Obekpa is not a program changer. He is a very nice piece to a very big puzzle. The UC program is on very solid footing and anyone who has paid any attention to the program knows its been on the way up for a long time now. Just getting closer to the top of the mountain. Does any UC fan on here have any doubt we are headed back to the tourney next year? I hope not because next years team will be better than this years. Recruiting ebbs and flows. Sometimes the luck blows your way and sometimes it doesnt. Its why you build a solid group so that one player will not make or break your success. Proud of this program, where it has been, and where it is going. Deep breath everyone, all is good on the home front......

 

[Thegreatone]

You know people in the bball business, but you give us the same Internet drivel. His playboy days are years ago. He's long been married and is now a cancer survivor. Lavin has the respect of the coaching fraternity from Wooden and Keady on down. They never thought he was a hack like youre describing.Harrick's troubles followed him through several schools. Those were never Lavin's. I really don't know where you're getting all of this nonsense from.


Fwiw, Cronin handled the Xavier situation poorly IMO.. Gates actions were totally malicious and should have been booted from the team. The penalties were laughable and I don't know a college bball fan outside of the Cincy fans like yourself that met it with "positive applause". Not one...

Clearly all you saw was the punch and the 6 game suspension. You are way off base here.

 

[Cpaw]

This quote has zero perspective. F#cking ZERO. I am so sick and tired of people thinking they have the right to judge people based on one action they saw on sportscenter. It was a fight. It happens between rivals. Was it right? No. Should it have happened? No. But it did. They are kids who made a mistake. It was an extremely emotional game with a hostile setting and it got out of control. It just happened to be on national tv. How would you like it if any of the really dumb decisions you have made (Yes you have made some, we all have) were broadcast nationally on TV and you were forced to relive it everyday and apologize for it everyday? I know Yancy personally and he could not be a nicer guy. His teammate was being attacked and he reacted without thinking. To have him kicked off the team and help destroy his future lacks complete perspective. He made a mistake, he apologized (sincerely I might add), has done everything right since that day, and has paid for it. So your opinion is crap.

As for the rest of this. I dont care about St. Johns. I dont care about Lavin. I think attacking their program or their coach is without merit. Just useless bickering. I dont know what is true about Lavin and I dont care. Until he is accused and found guilty of something it doesnt matter. Obekpa is not a program changer. He is a very nice piece to a very big puzzle. The UC program is on very solid footing and anyone who has paid any attention to the program knows its been on the way up for a long time now. Just getting closer to the top of the mountain. Does any UC fan on here have any doubt we are headed back to the tourney next year? I hope not because next years team will be better than this years. Recruiting ebbs and flows. Sometimes the luck blows your way and sometimes it doesnt. Its why you build a solid group so that one player will not make or break your success. Proud of this program, where it has been, and where it is going. Deep breath everyone, all is good on the home front......

Absolutely spot on. I am tired of the bickering with the Johnnies on here.
We are UC and we have class, let's show it.

 

[Thegreatone]

I welcome St John fans here to discuss Obekpa or Big East recruiting.

If not, you're going to be banned. I have high tolerance for consistent posters but very little for people with 10 posts.

 

[BearcatMick]

St johns is a horrible university on par with depaul and providence in terms of relevance. They are terrible

Cronin will lead uc to a national championship soon.