2016-2017 Season

[waterhead]

I know yesterday was a good start and we played well. Im not here to be negative towards our offense but something still doesn't sit well with me I guess.

My concern is it seems we still stall on offense. Play horizontal around the 3pt line instead of vertical towards the basket. Plenty of times we had to take a desperation 3 bc the shot clock was low and we did nothing with the ball. It seems we really still struggle to have any player beat his man off the dribble straight up.

Am I wrong for thinking this? It's not that I wasn't pleased with the offense yesterday but I think when we play better competition some things we got away with yesterday, won't fly.

A lot to improve upon. We don't seem to get great penetration. If we aren't going to do that we should play 2 in 3 out.

Our bigs can both play. Then can catch. They can pass. They can shoot. Washington is better with the basketball than Clark and Clark is all conference. He has moves and not afraid to put his head down and go to the bucket. He's confident and aggressive. He seems to be able to make FTs.

We have a rebounding edge with both in the paint. We have guys who can make mid range jumpers if the lane is clogged. We have guys who can make 3s on the perimeter.

I would like to see more penetration...but if we don't...I'm happy feeding the post from both sides.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

A lot to improve upon. We don't seem to get great penetration. If we aren't going to do that we should play 2 in 3 out.

Our bigs can both play. Then can catch. They can pass. They can shoot. Washington is better with the basketball than Clark and Clark is all conference. He has moves and not afraid to put his head down and go to the bucket. He's confident and aggressive. He seems to be able to make FTs.

We have a rebounding edge with both in the paint. We have guys who can make mid range jumpers if the lane is clogged. We have guys who can make 3s on the perimeter.

I would like to see more penetration...but if we don't...I'm happy feeding the post from both sides.

We've seen enough of Cronin's 2 big men offense over the years. Pump the brakes! These guys will adjust to playing together. And when we do feed Washington or Clark, they'll have more room to operate, and less of a threat of a double team. And if our opponent wants to send a guy to help, Washington and Clark are both capable of sending a pass back out to the perimeter for either a 3 or the guards snapping the ball around to find the open man. We'll get there. We have the personnel (besides Kevin Johnson who just stands there and holds the ball for 15 seconds everytime he gets it).

 

[UCBearcats]

We've seen enough of Cronin's 2 big men offense over the years. Pump the brakes! These guys will adjust to playing together. And when we do feed Washington or Clark, they'll have more room to operate, and less of a threat of a double team. And if our opponent wants to send a guy to help, Washington and Clark are both capable of sending a pass back out to the perimeter for either a 3 or the guards snapping the ball around to find the open man. We'll get there. We have the personnel (besides Kevin Johnson who just stands there and holds the ball for 15 seconds everytime he gets it).

I'll save my judgement for when we play a bit better competition. I didn't see much in the first game that really leads me to believe our offense is going to be any less frustrating this season. Lots and lots of standing around in the half court, Washington and Clark's inside out play in the 2nd half being the lone highlight.

Washington had some nice feeds to Clark when he caught the ball towards the top of the key but that was against Brown, we'll see how effective that ability is against a better talented and better coached team.

Funny side note: Washington looks a lot like Ellis out there, same mannerisms and they have the same type of run up and down the court.

 

[waterhead]

We've seen enough of Cronin's 2 big men offense over the years. Pump the brakes! These guys will adjust to playing together. And when we do feed Washington or Clark, they'll have more room to operate, and less of a threat of a double team. And if our opponent wants to send a guy to help, Washington and Clark are both capable of sending a pass back out to the perimeter for either a 3 or the guards snapping the ball around to find the open man. We'll get there. We have the personnel (besides Kevin Johnson who just stands there and holds the ball for 15 seconds everytime he gets it).

We've never had two bigs like these two on offense under Cronin. We also have never had great penetration under Cronin. Nor a great 3 point shooting team.

If you play 4 out you need to make 3s and/or penetrate. I'm fine with either style which is why i put the disclaimer in the first post.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

We've never had two bigs like these two on offense under Cronin. We also have never had great penetration under Cronin. Nor a great 3 point shooting team.

If you play 4 out you need to make 3s and/or penetrate. I'm fine with either style which is why i put the disclaimer in the first post.

Yeah I get what you were saying. The idea of the 90s style offense just makes me cringe. The thing about these big guys is A. You're right we haven't had 2 like them but B. They are both capable of so much more than back to the basket touches (especially Clark). Maybe we can see more than 13 minutes from Cumberland. I feel like that'd help make the offense go a little smoother. Otherwise, maybe Johnson can be relegated to stand in the corner the entire time and only shoot open 3s duty. Anything to get him off of the wing really. The ball just dies and the defense can reset literally every time he gets it.

 

[waterhead]

We've never had two bigs like these two on offense under Cronin. We also have never had great penetration under Cronin. Nor a great 3 point shooting team.

If you play 4 out you need to make 3s and/or penetrate. I'm fine with either style which is why i put the disclaimer in the first post.

While I will wait and see...we are shooting 26 percent from 3 in one exhibition and one game. That's a small sample I'll give you that...but not when you consider the last decade. I haven't been overly impressed with penetration so far but I understand that is somewhat a factor of defense.

I'm not saying right now we need to work inside out...just that I'm less worried about that option after watching Washington play. I know I know... very small sample. However, there are certain things you can watch a player do and apply it to even tougher opponents. Ie... walking and chewing gum at the same time. Sometimes I have trouble with that...but it looks like Washington might be capable.

I will defer judgement for a little while.

 

[waterhead]

Yeah I get what you were saying. The idea of the 90s style offense just makes me cringe. The thing about these big guys is A. You're right we haven't had 2 like them but B. They are both capable of so much more than back to the basket touches (especially Clark). Maybe we can see more than 13 minutes from Cumberland. I feel like that'd help make the offense go a little smoother. Otherwise, maybe Johnson can be relegated to stand in the corner the entire time and only shoot open 3s duty. Anything to get him off of the wing really. The ball just dies and the defense can reset literally every time he gets it.

I think Cumberland is very important to a 1 in 4 out game. I also like what I see in him in that regard. Shooting will come but I think he can penetrate.

 

[waterhead]

Yeah I get what you were saying. The idea of the 90s style offense just makes me cringe. The thing about these big guys is A. You're right we haven't had 2 like them but B. They are both capable of so much more than back to the basket touches (especially Clark). Maybe we can see more than 13 minutes from Cumberland. I feel like that'd help make the offense go a little smoother. Otherwise, maybe Johnson can be relegated to stand in the corner the entire time and only shoot open 3s duty. Anything to get him off of the wing really. The ball just dies and the defense can reset literally every time he gets it.

I like the idea of KJ in the corner!

 

[jacobkdoyle]

PER Through 2 Games:

Tre Scott 38.5
Jacob Evans 36.9
Kyle Washington 34.3
Jarron Cumberland 26.0
Gary Clark 24.6
Troy Caupain 22.7
Justin Jenifer 19.9
Nysier Brooks 5.1
Quadri Moore 3.4
Kevin Johnson -0.3

Anything around 20 is good. I believe Clark led the team last year at 24.3.

 

[waterhead]

PER Through 2 Games:

Tre Scott 38.5
Jacob Evans 36.9
Kyle Washington 34.3
Jarron Cumberland 26.0
Gary Clark 24.6
Troy Caupain 22.7
Justin Jenifer 19.9
Nysier Brooks 5.1
Quadri Moore 3.4
Kevin Johnson -0.3

Anything around 20 is good. I believe Clark led the team last year at 24.3.

Of the players averaging 10+ minutes Cumberland is the only player turnover free. That could help with his minutes as time goes on.

I don't want to gang up on KJ but I prefer him in spot roles. Hes a tried and true Bearcat! I like what Cumberland and Jenifer are giving us right now.

 

[rogerOH]

I know Scott took a horrible shot in the game but just like Jenifer with a nifty pass Scott brings an excitement when he's in the game. Dunks -blocks-hustle and I saw him make a pass to a cutter on the baseline that no matter how long K J plays he will never be able to do. Shaq was the same way -catch a pass and throw it back to the same guy,never pass it inside.

 

[Bearcat513]

PER Through 2 Games:

Tre Scott 38.5
Jacob Evans 36.9
Kyle Washington 34.3
Jarron Cumberland 26.0
Gary Clark 24.6
Troy Caupain 22.7
Justin Jenifer 19.9
Nysier Brooks 5.1
Quadri Moore 3.4
Kevin Johnson -0.3

Anything around 20 is good. I believe Clark led the team last year at 24.3.

Man, it's hard for me to say with confidence KJ should start. I know it's a small sample size, but watching him on Monday was brutal.

BUT, I will say after he made his first shot, that mid-range jumper in the second half, he seemed to take a second and I could sense he was thinking, " okay you got a bucket, lets get it going" just by the way he looked. It happened right in front of me so it gave me a bit of hope that he knew he wasn't playing well and was hoping that shot would build confidence. I hope so, too.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Man, it's hard for me to say with confidence KJ should start. I know it's a small sample size, but watching him on Monday was brutal.

BUT, I will say after he made his first shot, that mid-range jumper in the second half, he seemed to take a second and I could sense he was thinking, " okay you got a bucket, lets get it going" just by the way he looked. It happened right in front of me so it gave me a bit of hope that he knew he wasn't playing well and was hoping that shot would build confidence. I hope so, too.

That's precisely the problem imo. He shot under 35% last year...not from 3, but overall. He is playing with 4 other guys who are so far ahead of him offensively it's not even funny. He doesn't need to "get it going". But he plays like he thinks he does. He's played over 100 games here...a switch isn't just going to flip and all of the sudden make him All-League like the other guys on the team. When he's out there hunting shots and worrying about his own offense he's being selfish and hurting the team. I'm so sick of it. In the past, players who don't accept their role ride the bench. I'd like to see him get yanked anytime he goes out of his way to look for points for himself bc that is the LAST thing he should be worried about. If he wanted to be a focal point, he should've gone to NKU.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Man, it's hard for me to say with confidence KJ should start. I know it's a small sample size, but watching him on Monday was brutal.

BUT, I will say after he made his first shot, that mid-range jumper in the second half, he seemed to take a second and I could sense he was thinking, " okay you got a bucket, lets get it going" just by the way he looked. It happened right in front of me so it gave me a bit of hope that he knew he wasn't playing well and was hoping that shot would build confidence. I hope so, too.

The last thing we should be rooting for is KJ to get his confidence back. He isn't a good shooter, never has been and I hate when he thinks he is. He should come off the bench, work his ass off on defense, and only shoot when wide open. Same for Quadri.

 

[waterhead]

That's precisely the problem imo. He shot under 35% last year...not from 3, but overall. He is playing with 4 other guys who are so far ahead of him offensively it's not even funny. He doesn't need to "get it going". But he plays like he thinks he does. He's played over 100 games here...a switch isn't just going to flip and all of the sudden make him All-League like the other guys on the team. When he's out there hunting shots and worrying about his own offense he's being selfish and hurting the team. I'm so sick of it. In the past, players who don't accept their role ride the bench. I'd like to see him get yanked anytime he goes out of his way to look for points for himself bc that is the LAST thing he should be worried about. If he wanted to be a focal point, he should've gone to NKU.

I don't think he takes an inordinate amount of shots. And he shouldn't. He should only take wide open set shots.

I would just like to see him around 37.5 percent this year from 3 and play D. That's it.

 

[Bearcat513]

The last thing we should be rooting for is KJ to get his confidence back. He isn't a good shooter, never has been and I hate when he thinks he is. He should come off the bench, work his ass off on defense, and only shoot when wide open. Same for Quadri.

Why should we want one of our players to be out there with no confidence? Having confidence doesn't mean you take every shot. It's more when you do take a shot, you believe it's going in.

I certainly don't want KJ's usage % to be high. No one does and I am not saying that. I can see why some might have interpreted what I said that way. I just mean if he's going to be starting, if we like it or not, I rather have him confident when he shoots than not. When I saw him react to making a basket, I thought that maybe he will have more confidence when he shoots, not shooting more because he's confident.

 

[waterhead]

That's precisely the problem imo. He shot under 35% last year...not from 3, but overall. He is playing with 4 other guys who are so far ahead of him offensively it's not even funny. He doesn't need to "get it going". But he plays like he thinks he does. He's played over 100 games here...a switch isn't just going to flip and all of the sudden make him All-League like the other guys on the team. When he's out there hunting shots and worrying about his own offense he's being selfish and hurting the team. I'm so sick of it. In the past, players who don't accept their role ride the bench. I'd like to see him get yanked anytime he goes out of his way to look for points for himself bc that is the LAST thing he should be worried about. If he wanted to be a focal point, he should've gone to NKU.

He's been roughly the same player for 4 years. He did drop his turnovers last year which is positive. I think Cumberland and Jenifer help the flow of the offense much more and they can make 3s too.

With Jenifer playing better D this year and Cronin giving him recognition for it...I wonder if he is laying the groundwork for less KJ? I don't think he will phase him out but if we could get KJ down to 15 minutes and JJ and Cumberland 20+...that could go a long way.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

He's been roughly the same player for 4 years. He did drop his turnovers last year which is positive. I think Cumberland and Jenifer help the flow of the offense much more and they can make 3s too.

With Jenifer playing better D this year and Cronin giving him recognition for it...I wonder if he is laying the groundwork for less KJ? I don't think he will phase him out but if we could get KJ down to 15 minutes and JJ and Cumberland 20+...that could go a long way.

If Cumberland and JJ continue to improve and play well I would guess KJ's playing time would decrease. Especially if TC looks like he can give them minutes at the 2. Really don't think you'll see much change in KJ's game. He will hit a few three's play solid defense. He will also turn the ball over on occasion. He makes FT's. Really don't need him to do much more. He is the last scoring option when he is in with the starters. Mick will need to mix and match guys to utilize the talent. Lots of it could be game situation. Should be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[L-T]

Our two starting guards are shooting a combined 7.7% from three. Caupain is 16% and Johnson is 0%. This is against cupcakes. I can see a lot of zone down the road, especially since we have Washington as a strong offensive presence inside now. I also expected Clark to be pretty strong from three. He has looked horrible. As usual, we need shooters bad.

 

[GarradJ21]

Our two starting guards are shooting a combined 7.7% from three. Caupain is 16% and Johnson is 0%. This is against cupcakes. I can see a lot of zone down the road, especially since we have Washington as a strong offensive presence inside now. I also expected Clark to be pretty strong from three. He has looked horrible. As usual, we need shooters bad.

Lol come on LT. That is the smallest sample size ever. Let them get combined 50 3 pointers and see what the percent is then.