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JasonS said:
Yup. I hate having a Top 10 team, 2nd all-time scorer in program history, and a bunch of guys that go to class, graduate and are respectful. Very irrational. :rolleyes:
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First of all, if you're going to get your feelings hurt by being called "irrational", then don't take the first shot by calling the other side irrational, or labeling that group as Mick "Haters". If you take the first shot, then you should expect some return fire.

As for me, I'm certainly not a Mick "Hater" as you all believe. I'm just not a Mick "Lover"....yet. I'm thoroughly enjoying the team's success this season and that success has given me renewed hope that Mick is the long term answer as our coach. I had a little meltdown after New Mexico and Xavier, but I've recovered nicely and I'm solidly onboard the Mick train, but I'm sitting way in the back with the "Show me more" people. I hope to one day move to the front of the train with the zealots, but give me some time. The euphoria of this season has barely washed the disappointment of last season away for me. As always...Go Cats!
 
L-T said:
First of all, if you're going to get your feelings hurt by being called "irrational", then don't take the first shot by calling the other side irrational, or labeling that group as Mick "Haters". If you take the first shot, then you should expect some return fire.

As for me, I'm certainly not a Mick "Hater" as you all believe. I'm just not a Mick "Lover"....yet. I'm thoroughly enjoying the team's success this season and that success has given me renewed hope that Mick is the long term answer as our coach. I had a little meltdown after New Mexico and Xavier, but I've recovered nicely and I'm solidly onboard the Mick train, but I'm sitting way in the back with the "Show me more" people. I hope to one day move to the front of the train with the zealots, but give me some time. The euphoria of this season has barely washed the disappointment of last season away for me. As always...Go Cats!
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I almost spit out my drink laughing when I read the bolded part. You are a funnier guy than I thought.

Look, I'll make one last comment on this topic and then I will be done with it. We all know there has been a group since Mick has been hired that has refused to give him and this program any credit at all. We also know there have been a large group of Mick supporters who have, in my opinion, been pushed to be overly supportive at times because of the before mentioned group. Until recently, there have been very few people in the middle group which I describe as the group that supports the coach, players, and program and hopes to see great success in March. Those people should make up the majority. Willing to be critical when deserved and willing to enjoy and support the program when deserved as well. I believe this group is now making up the majority of fans. There is still that contingent of people that will look for every little thing to be critical of (like how many minutes a walk on gets) and those people will never change. Likewise, there will be people who will always look at things through Red and Black glasses. That will never change. I fully believe that the vast majority of fans have found their way to the middle which I think is very healthy as a fan base. Support your team. Be happy when they win. Be sad when they lose. Be as objective as possible when looking at the future of the program and what needs to happen. It doesn't mean everyone has to agree, but logic needs to be applied. I believe most people are there now. It took longer than it should have, but better late than never.

I have always been a supporter of Mick and I have good friends that refuse to acknowledge that they were wrong about Mick at the beginning. As a result, they seem to enjoy seeing losses because it somehow reconciles in their minds, that they were right. That's crazy to me. They also find themselves a vast minority (among my friends anyway). I also don't have problems being critical when called for. Frankly, right now, I don't see a lot to be critical of. Could this team use another shooter? Sure. I think Mick would admit that too. They don't grow on trees, unfortunately. One thing people were always either unsure of or critical of was how players improved under Mick. Look at JJ and SK. You can see the improvement just in those two. I think those questions are being answered and that's why more people are on board. I think Mick has shown improvement as a coach too. He was kind of learning on the job but has shown that he can get the most out of his teams unlike Lavin or Pastner. As we all start seeing what Memphis and St. John's are doing with higher ranked classes, I think it has been easier for people to get behind this entire coaching staff and program.

This is a great time to be a UC fan. We have all been to the bottom with this program and have been there to support them on the way back. Now we have a Top 10 caliber team who is tough, plays great D, has a great player and has a chance to win a conference championship and make a run in March. Sounds a lot like those teams we had in the 90s and early 2000s. That's all you can ask for. It's going to be a fun March that starts with the game against UCONN. Let's go get a 2 or 3 seed and hope for a good draw in the tourney!
 
JasonS said:
I almost spit out my drink laughing when I read the bolded part. You are a funnier guy than I thought.

Look, I'll make one last comment on this topic and then I will be done with it. We all know there has been a group since Mick has been hired that has refused to give him and this program any credit at all. We also know there have been a large group of Mick supporters who have, in my opinion, been pushed to be overly supportive at times because of the before mentioned group. Until recently, there have been very few people in the middle group which I describe as the group that supports the coach, players, and program and hopes to see great success in March. Those people should make up the majority. Willing to be critical when deserved and willing to enjoy and support the program when deserved as well. I believe this group is now making up the majority of fans. There is still that contingent of people that will look for every little thing to be critical of (like how many minutes a walk on gets) and those people will never change. Likewise, there will be people who will always look at things through Red and Black glasses. That will never change. I fully believe that the vast majority of fans have found their way to the middle which I think is very healthy as a fan base. Support your team. Be happy when they win. Be sad when they lose. Be as objective as possible when looking at the future of the program and what needs to happen. It doesn't mean everyone has to agree, but logic needs to be applied. I believe most people are there now. It took longer than it should have, but better late than never.

I have always been a supporter of Mick and I have good friends that refuse to acknowledge that they were wrong about Mick at the beginning. As a result, they seem to enjoy seeing losses because it somehow reconciles in their minds, that they were right. That's crazy to me. They also find themselves a vast minority (among my friends anyway). I also don't have problems being critical when called for. Frankly, right now, I don't see a lot to be critical of. Could this team use another shooter? Sure. I think Mick would admit that too. They don't grow on trees, unfortunately. One thing people were always either unsure of or critical of was how players improved under Mick. Look at JJ and SK. You can see the improvement just in those two. I think those questions are being answered and that's why more people are on board. I think Mick has shown improvement as a coach too. He was kind of learning on the job but has shown that he can get the most out of his teams unlike Lavin or Pastner. As we all start seeing what Memphis and St. John's are doing with higher ranked classes, I think it has been easier for people to get behind this entire coaching staff and program.

This is a great time to be a UC fan. We have all been to the bottom with this program and have been there to support them on the way back. Now we have a Top 10 caliber team who is tough, plays great D, has a great player and has a chance to win a conference championship and make a run in March. Sounds a lot like those teams we had in the 90s and early 2000s. That's all you can ask for. It's going to be a fun March that starts with the game against UCONN. Let's go get a 2 or 3 seed and hope for a good draw in the tourney!
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This is a good synopsis, minus your first sentence. Not sure why you had to add that. If I didn't support the coach and the program and I was convinced that we were headed into the dumpster, do you honestly think I would waste all the money that I'm required to pay to give my support to Mick and the program? If I wanted him fired, what better way than to quit attending with all the other thousands who have done so (who happily are now starting to come back!). But, for more than a half century, I've had season tickets thru the worst of times and thru the best of times. Listen, I don't think the group of "haters" is very large at all, but I do think the group of "doubters" is still pretty large.

In statistical theory, this season would represent what is called an outlier (a statistical observation that is markedly different in value from the others of the sample). Some seem to accept the fact that this season is now the norm and are elated. Others might feel it is more of an outlier (exception rather than the rule) and hold on to some doubts. Many of the doubters complaints are definitely being answered this year....i.e. the improvent in multiple players, the top 10 ranking, possible NBA players, upgraded recruits etc. This is what everyone wants this program to be on a consistent basis. So, we'll all disagree on the what the duration of the journey to get here should have been, but, we're finally here and we're much happier as a fanbase for it. Now, the coach's task is to sustain it.

If this site could get beyond "labeling" each other as Haters/lovers/doubters/idiots etc. and just accept the fact that we're all fans who want the best for this program and just have a friendly debate of the plusses and minuses of the team and the coach, there wouldn't be any issues. Thanks for taking the time to make some excellent points Jason!
 
"In statistical theory, this season would represent what is called an outlier (a statistical observation that is markedly different in value from the others of the sample)."

Last 4 years:

2013-2014 - 24-4 and counting
2012-2013 - 22-19
2011-2012 - 26-11
1010-2011 - 26-9

Average wins in that time span up to this point in the season = 24.5 per season. will go over 25 wins per season before season ends.

Overall record = 98-43 = 70% win percentage over that span 3 of which were in the toughest/best basketball conference in history.

Doesn't seem like an outlier to me.
 
bearcat jeff said:
"In statistical theory, this season would represent what is called an outlier (a statistical observation that is markedly different in value from the others of the sample)."

Last 4 years:

2013-2014 - 24-4 and counting
2012-2013 - 22-19
2011-2012 - 26-11
1010-2011 - 26-9

Average wins in that time span up to this point in the season = 24.5 per season. will go over 25 wins per season before season ends.

Overall record = 98-43 = 70% win percentage over that span 3 of which were in the toughest/best basketball conference in history.

Doesn't seem like an outlier to me.
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You take one stat that somewhat supports your point, but the fact is, he has scheduled weaker and weaker competition in the OOC to pad those win totals. I'm not going to pull all the data together to suppot my statement, but I could. I'll just summarize in words.

Improvement of players: JJ and SK both have improved dramatically this year, but that hasn't been the typical case prior to this year. Solid examples of noticeable improvement few and far between before this year.

Top 10: Extended stay in top 10 this year versus I think one occurrence for a total one week last year. None before that. Top 10 is definitely an outlier.

NBA Players: Only one and he was only here one year. This year....potentially 2 more....definitely an outlier.

Upgraded Recruits: Recruiting has been a big complaint of many people. This year's freshmen seem to be a notch or two above most of his past recruits. Next year's class is promising.

League Championships: Zero. This year....1st place now, and hopefully still 1st in 2 weeks. 1st Place anytime during the season is an outlier. Championship would also be an outlier.

League Tournament Championship: Zero. This year TBD.

High Seeds: Never. This year, potentially 2-4....outlier.

Bottom line, this season is an exception to this point...and hopefully becomes the rule in the future.
 
Knocking Mick for not having a league championship or league tournament championship is a bit ridiculous considering how tough the Big East was. Hell, I think beating Syracuse at full-strength in the Garden was more impressive than some of the CUSA tournament championships.
 
Jeff perhaps you could create a thread were people can discuss direction,history,attendance,coach,recruiting,player improvement and any topic posters want to keep rehashing. That way we wouldn't get off topic so much. Absolutely comical how one guy can keep dragging the program back into years past even with a top ten team and a potential very good season on the horizon.
 
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Bearcat04 said:
Knocking Mick for not having a league championship or league tournament championship is a bit ridiculous considering how tough the Big East was. Hell, I think beating Syracuse at full-strength in the Garden was more impressive than some of the CUSA tournament championships.
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3rd place, 2nd place, or 1st place would be outliers. Hell, his 4th place two years ago was an outlier. Other than that one year, no better than 6th. In year 7 he fell all the way to 9th. Bottom line, he hasn't sniffed anything close to a championship outside of runner-up in the league tourney.

This year, he's finally sniffing a championship.
 
WAITE HOYT 2 said:
Jeff perhaps you could create a thread were people can discuss direction,history,attendance,coach,recruiting,player improvement and any topic posters want to keep rehashing. That way we wouldn't get off topic so much. Absolutely comical how one guy can keep dragging the program back into years past even with a top ten team and a potential very good season on the horizon.
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Uh Waite....in case you haven't noticed, we're not in the top 10 anymore.
 
L-T said:
3rd place, 2nd place, or 1st place would be outliers. Hell, his 4th place two years ago was an outlier. Other than that one year, no better than 6th. In year 7 he fell all the way to 9th. Bottom line, he hasn't sniffed anything close to a championship outside of runner-up in the league tourney.

This year, he's finally sniffing a championship.
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yes isn't it wonderful.
 
L-T said:
3rd place, 2nd place, or 1st place would be outliers. Hell, his 4th place two years ago was an outlier. Other than that one year, no better than 6th. In year 7 he fell all the way to 9th. Bottom line, he hasn't sniffed anything close to a championship outside of runner-up in the league tourney.

This year, he's finally sniffing a championship.
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UConn finished 9th with a HoF coach in 2011 and won the national championship. Have a little context when discussing where a team finished in the BE.
 
L-T said:
Uh Waite....in case you haven't noticed, we're not in the top 10 anymore.
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yea that loss to Louisville dropped us down a notch. I think we are good enough to beat UCONN on the road and regain that ranking and secure a good seed for the NCAA.
 
Bearcat04 said:
UConn finished 9th with a HoF coach in 2011 and won the national championship. Have a little context when discussing where a team finished in the BE.
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Yes, and isn't it wonderful that the same thing might happen this year?
 
L-T said:
I agree with you.:)
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part of me is hoping that the loss to Louisville in the manner it occurred will have a positive effect on us. Really think the guys came out very tight in that game. It seemed like they didn't really believe they belonged in top 10. After playing as bad as they did and almost pulling out a win I hope they realize they are better team then perhaps they even think they are.

From my point of view I see them as being the best team in the league. The next best especially at home is SMU. Should be a interesting last few weeks.
 
WAITE HOYT 2 said:
part of me is hoping that the loss to Louisville in the manner it occurred will have a positive effect on us. Really think the guys came out very tight in that game. It seemed like they didn't really believe they belonged in top 10. After playing as bad as they did and almost pulling out a win I hope they realize they are better team then perhaps they even think they are.

From my point of view I see them as being the best team in the league. The next best especially at home is SMU. Should be a interesting last few weeks.
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We're better than Louisville. JJ getting into immediate foul trouble changed the whole mojo of that game. I was very proud of the intestinal fortitude we displayed and our team and coach did the university proud in a losing effort. I wanted a win with every fiber of my soul and walked away semi-crushed, because I really want this championship. Much tougher road now. It can go any way at this point.
 
Bearcat_NTS said:
Titus is essentially the back up center on this team, I wonder how much better offensively both he and Lawrence would be if they had a true "5" man in the middle like Yancy Gates. I know Rubles shouldn't play away from the basket
a ton, but I feel like he has to do way too much right now...
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How much more does he do than anybody else. He's ok on defense its how Mick try use him on offense that killer.
 
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