Ge'Lawn Guyn

[WAITE HOYT 2]

And what made you so grumpy Waite?

i shoveled the drive way and I hate the cold gray weather.oh and plus I didn't get a nap.

 

[bearcat jeff]

LT when the public pays for your wages or schooling they have a right to their criticism. Secondly, nobody is "personally" attacking GG, they are talking about his performance on the court. Lastly, it amazes me how some continue to take shots at a coach, even on a thread that has nothing to do with him, when he is 18-2 and has a team picked to finish 4th in their league, solely in first place and ranked 15th nationally. I have and will be critical of him when its warranted but this season he has done one helluva job.

 

[L-T]

i shoveled the drive way and I hate the cold gray weather.oh and plus I didn't get a nap.

Ok, I'm confused. You did get a nap, you didn't get a nap. Which is it? You flip-flop on naps the same as you do on some of these subjects on this forum.

 

[L-T]

LT when the public pays for your wages or schooling they have a right to their criticism. Secondly, nobody is "personally" attacking GG, they are talking about his performance on the court. Lastly, it amazes me how some continue to take shots at a coach, even on a thread that has nothing to do with him, when he is 18-2 and has a team picked to finish 4th in their league, solely in first place and ranked 15th nationally. I have and will be critical of him when its warranted but this season he has done one helluva job.

This is not about Mick's performance Jeff. In fact, if you read the post, I said nothing bad about Mick. I actually complimented him 2 or 3 times. And, if you think the public isn't paying for Mick Cronin's million dollar plus contract, you're very naive. Let's see....the student athlete costs us $50,000 a year, and our coach costs us $1-$2 Million a year. Therefore, the coach cannot be critiqued, but the 20 year old is fair game. Makes complete sense to me Jeff.

And, for the record, Mick is doing outstanding this year Jeff. But, as Waite keeps reminding us, the schedule is backloaded. Kenpom has us at about a 230 schedule rank thus far, so to be fair, we'll have to wait another month and a half to pass out 'outstanding" performance reviews. But, definitely.....he is doing extremely well thus far!

 

[waterhead]

This thread is a prime example of the hippocracy of this forum. If you substituted Mick Cronin's name for GGs, and someone started questioning his BBIQ, calling his coaching brutal, or pointing out all his flaws, or calling for him to be replaced, you would think there had been a terrorist attack. Yet, there can be constant complaining about these student athletes without any consequence or personal attacks. But, if you point out a single Mick Cronin flaw, or suggest areas where he can improve, you are treated as the antichrist. I find it to be light years worse to point out flaws and direct anything negative to our student athletes, than doing the same towards the coach. These guys are representing our university, aren't getting paid, some are still teenagers, and they are giving their best possible effort. The head coach, who everyone in here will defend to the death, has determined that based on "all" factors,GG has "earned" the starting job. Yet, everyone in here for the last 3 months has continually called for Troy Caupain to replace him. If Mick Cronin is the elite coach that you all claim him to be, then why not trust that he knows a lot more than you about what he's looking for in a starting point guard.

Personally, I like GG. I saw him on Mick Cronin's weekly tv show this week doing a skit with Mick's daughter. I got to hear him talk for the first time and he was very well spoken. I got to see him smile finally. On the court you never see him smile. He seems to have a lot going on in his head all the time. I was not ready to give up on JJ last March, and I'm definitely not ready to give up on GG now. Replacing him too quickly with a freshman might just be the final straw that causes him to never reach his potential. I think Mick sees the incredible athleticism he posesses and wants to hang with him hoping for the light to suddenly come on and for him to have a JJ-type transformation and become an all-league guard for his senior season. I think he has the potential to do that. I love Troy Caupain. What a great freshman he is and what an unexpected impact he has made. But, if GG can take that final step and tie up all the loose ends for his final season, this team could rock and roll. We're 18-2 and I think Mick is handling GG and Troy perfectly to get the most out of "both" players.

Wow! What a huge difference between your two paragraphs. The first was filled with a lot of "everyones" and the second was much more rational.

You are not the only Cronin critic I can assure you...so the "everyone" talk is nonsense. When the team isn't playing well the Cronin critics come out of the woodwork...so when he is doing well I can't sympathize with you too much. I can get on board with your second paragraph and I think most of the fans in here could as well.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Ok, I'm confused. You did get a nap, you didn't get a nap. Which is it? You flip-flop on naps the same as you do on some of these subjects on this forum.

have a nice day L-T.

 

[L-T]

Wow! What a huge difference between your two paragraphs. The first was filled with a lot of "everyones" and the second was much more rational.

You are not the only Cronin critic I can assure you...so the "everyone" talk is nonsense. When the team isn't playing well the Cronin critics come out of the woodwork...so when he is doing well I can't sympathize with you too much. I can get on board with your second paragraph and I think most of the fans in here could as well.

So, what you're saying is that my position is consistent, and it doesn't change based on an individual ballgame. Thank you Waite. I'll take that as a compliment. You see, I'm waiting for "whole" seasons to move my personal needle. I know you all think I bash Mick non-stop, but if you go back and look, you'll see I compliment him a lot. But, of course, the psychological gurus in here have determined those compliments to be "back-handed". But, you see, there can also be "back-handed" bashing of the coach when you constantly complain about Troy not starting. In other words, if you think Troy is the man, then you are questioning the coach's basketball IQ without directly saying it....and many have certainly done that a lot.

I'm definitely liking Mick right now....way more than the beginning of the season. So, lets hope that he brings home the bacon. Then, the last few stragglers will be onboard and we can all wallow in positive posting bliss.

 

[bearcat jeff]

This is not about Mick's performance Jeff. In fact, if you read the post, I said nothing bad about Mick. I actually complimented him 2 or 3 times. And, if you think the public isn't paying for Mick Cronin's million dollar plus contract, you're very naive. Let's see....the student athlete costs us $50,000 a year, and our coach costs us $1-$2 Million a year. Therefore, the coach cannot be critiqued, but the 20 year old is fair game. Makes complete sense to me Jeff.

And, for the record, Mick is doing outstanding this year Jeff. But, as Waite keeps reminding us, the schedule is backloaded. Kenpom has us at about a 230 schedule rank thus far, so to be fair, we'll have to wait another month and a half to pass out 'outstanding" performance reviews. But, definitely.....he is doing extremely well thus far!

Again, who is saying the coach can't be critiqued? My comment was as follows, "LT when the public pays for your wages or schooling they have a right to their criticism" Notice the "wages or schooling" there. Just don't understand why the coach was brought up in a thread that has nothing to do with him. If the players don't want to be critiqued by the public they should play in a private league. You are on a stage in division 1 basketball. If the current and past coaches can publicly criticize Bearcat players, the public certainly is allowed to have an opinion on performance. If it crosses the line to something personal I will delete the comment and address the poster. Nothing on here has been personal.

What do you consider bringing home the bacon and do the players have a role in that or if things fall apart will you solely lay that on the coach? To me that's hypocritical.

I'm believing for a league championship but based on projections anything better than forth and a NCAA appearance will be a success. Most people said 4th and an NIT appearance with a shot at making the NCAA. What were your projections and what is a success to you this season?

My prediction was: "An NIT season wouldn't surprise me, but I like the Bearcats to develop and finish top three in their league and make the NCAA Tournament for a fourth straight year. It all depends on how the frosh handle hitting the wall in January and adversity. I'm predicting a 23-8 or 24-7 season and a team that will be playing it's best when it matters most."

So they are exceeding my expectations and I think this is Micks best coaching year since he's been here. Looking thru the early season posts most people thought 8-9 losses.

 

[L-T]

Again, who is saying the coach can't be critiqued? My comment was as follows, "LT when the public pays for your wages or schooling they have a right to their criticism" Notice the "wages or schooling" there. Just don't understand why the coach was brought up in a thread that has nothing to do with him. If the players don't want to be critiqued by the public they should play in a private league. You are on a stage in division 1 basketball. If the current and past coaches can publicly criticize Bearcat players, the public certainly is allowed to an opinion on performance. If it crosses the line to something personal I will delete the comment and address the poster. Nothing on here has been personal.

What do you consider bringing home the bacon and do the players have a role in that or if things fall apart will you solely lay that on the coach? To me that's hypocritical.

I'm belieiving for a league championship but based on projections anything better than forth and a NCAA appearance will be a success. Most people said 4th and an NIT appearance with a shot at making the NCAA. What were your projections and what is a success to you this season?

Lol! Jeff, I'm a very happy camper right now, contrary to what everyone in here believes. I told Waite the other day that I viewed this season so far as an over-achievement. Then I started thinking about it. When I looked at this schedule to date, here was my pre-season expectation. I thought we would lose to Memphis and beat X. I thought the game at New Mexico was a tossup and I thought Pitt on a neutral court was a tossup. So if we assume one win and one loss in the two tossups, then we are right where I expected to be. What I didn't expect was to be ranked 15th. That is absolutly amazing and qualifies this to now be viewed as an over-achievement from that standpoint. I agree....I was thinking NIT myself. But, keep in mind, there is a long way to go, with many tough games. If we meltdown in February, those preseason predictions are still possible. That is why I temper my enthusiasm. Our schedule strength is still poor, so they can always use that to disrespect us.

 

[bearcat jeff]

Lol! Jeff, I'm a very happy camper right now, contrary to what everyone in here believes. I told Waite the other day that I viewed this season so far as an over-achievement. Then I started thinking about it. When I looked at this schedule to date, here was my pre-season expectation. I thought we would lose to Memphis and beat X. I thought the game at New Mexico was a tossup and I thought Pitt on a neutral court was a tossup. So if we assume one win and one loss in the two tossups, then we are right where I expected to be. What I didn't expect was to be ranked 15th. That is absolutly amazing and qualifies this to now be viewed as an over-achievement from that standpoint. I agree....I was thinking NIT myself. But, keep in mind, there is a long way to go, with many tough games. If we meltdown in February, those preseason predictions are still possible. That is why I temper my enthusiasm. Our schedule strength is still poor, so they can always use that to disrespect us.

You didn't answer the question I asked but I'm glad to see you are happy with the season so far.

 

[L-T]

You didn't answer the question I asked but I'm glad to see you are happy with the season so far.

Lol, ok....thought I did answer it. Let me read your post again and figure out what I didn't answer.

 

[#BearcatNation]

So confused as to why there's anything wrong with saying negative things about a student athlete's game. If you can't do that, forums shouldn't exist. Call out whoever you want. People will agree, people will disagree. It's called debate. I don't get why people are freaking.

 

[L-T]

So confused as to why there's anything wrong with saying negative things about a student athlete's game. If you can't do that, forums shouldn't exist. Call out whoever you want. People will agree, people will disagree. It's called debate. I don't get why people are freaking.

Notice that you failed to say the same thing about expressing negative things about the coach's coaching. In my opinion, critiquing the coach is more appropriate than critiquing a 20 yr. old. But, in here, it's heresy to make a comment about Mick, but ripping the student athlete is ok. It's a comical phenomenon.

 

[JumpinJack5]

Guyn needs to take a lesson from Shaq and pick his spots to shoot the 3. He jacks up way too many 3s, if he would just cut back and only shoot when he is wide open, it would benefit the whole team. Also, he needs to drive more, speed is his best weapon. Lastly, what happened to his ft shooting this year? It seems like it has fallen off dramatically, which isn't good if you are a pg.

 

[bearcat jeff]

Notice that you failed to say the same thing about expressing negative things about the coach's coaching. In my opinion, critiquing the coach is more appropriate than critiquing a 20 yr. old. But, in here, it's heresy to make a comment about Mick, but ripping the student athlete is ok. It's a comical phenomenon.

Give me one instance of someone ripping a player? Huggins used to talk about players performanc all the time. I've heard Mick do it. All people are talking about is performance. Nobody is ripping the players. Stop blowing things out of proportion.

 

[CaptDale]

This thread is a prime example of the hippocracy of this forum. If you substituted Mick Cronin's name for GGs, and someone started questioning his BBIQ, calling his coaching brutal, or pointing out all his flaws, or calling for him to be replaced, you would think there had been a terrorist attack. Yet, there can be constant complaining about these student athletes without any consequence or personal attacks. But, if you point out a single Mick Cronin flaw, or suggest areas where he can improve, you are treated as the antichrist. I find it to be light years worse to point out flaws and direct anything negative to our student athletes, than doing the same towards the coach. These guys are representing our university, aren't getting paid, some are still teenagers, and they are giving their best possible effort. The head coach, who everyone in here will defend to the death, has determined that based on "all" factors,GG has "earned" the starting job. Yet, everyone in here for the last 3 months has continually called for Troy Caupain to replace him. If Mick Cronin is the elite coach that you all claim him to be, then why not trust that he knows a lot more than you about what he's looking for in a starting point guard.

Personally, I like GG. I saw him on Mick Cronin's weekly tv show this week doing a skit with Mick's daughter. I got to hear him talk for the first time and he was very well spoken. I got to see him smile finally. On the court you never see him smile. He seems to have a lot going on in his head all the time. I was not ready to give up on JJ last March, and I'm definitely not ready to give up on GG now. Replacing him too quickly with a freshman might just be the final straw that causes him to never reach his potential. I think Mick sees the incredible athleticism he posesses and wants to hang with him hoping for the light to suddenly come on and for him to have a JJ-type transformation and become an all-league guard for his senior season. I think he has the potential to do that. I love Troy Caupain. What a great freshman he is and what an unexpected impact he has made. But, if GG can take that final step and tie up all the loose ends for his final season, this team could rock and roll. We're 18-2 and I think Mick is handling GG and Troy perfectly to get the most out of "both" players.

Great synopsis, L-T. You and I have been GG's only supporters on this site from the inception. You spelled it out exactly. I'd like to add that he has been improving each game. All the nay-sayers harp on his 3 pt %, but his shots show good form, he's open and, I'm sure, encouraged by Cronin to shoot. His misses are not airballs, but rather they are near misses. When he does make them, they are nothing but net. They will fall, but never enough to bring his overall % up to where all the GG haters deem it should be. Too bad we can't harness some of TC's offensive spunk with GG's defensive tenacity. Would make both better players. But we can combine their stats and wind up with both good offensive numbers and great defensive shutdown's of the opposition's PG (or whomever they guard). Last couple of games, GG has looked much better while TC seems to have hit a freshman slump of sorts. Both will have their ups and downs, but that's why there are 40 minutes to share each game.

 

[anbuc88]

Notice that you failed to say the same thing about expressing negative things about the coach's coaching. In my opinion, critiquing the coach is more appropriate than critiquing a 20 yr. old. But, in here, it's heresy to make a comment about Mick, but ripping the student athlete is ok. It's a comical phenomenon.

Here's the difference. Read this slowly so you can understand it. No one on here has said it is not OK to critique the coach. But most do it fairly. You, on the other hand, take it to the extreme and make it about yourself. To call for the coach to be fired after a regular season loss, especially after 3 straight NCAA tourney appearances is NOT fair. To then bring up that you have been saying this for 8 years and have been finally proven correct makes it a pitiful cry for attention. That would be similar to calling for one of the players to be thrown off the team after missing a shot that cost them a game. And then saying that you have been saying this for his entire time on the team and have been finally proven right. It would NOT be fair. BTW, no one has 'ripped' Ge-Lawn Guyn on here. Saying that they think that Caupain should start over him just means that they think he is a better player. Doesn't mean that they want him off the team, like you would concerning Cronin after the Xavier loss. See the difference? Didn't think so.

 

[#BearcatNation]

Notice that you failed to say the same thing about expressing negative things about the coach's coaching. In my opinion, critiquing the coach is more appropriate than critiquing a 20 yr. old. But, in here, it's heresy to make a comment about Mick, but ripping the student athlete is ok. It's a comical phenomenon.

Gee, maybe it's because Cronin has lead to team to an 18-2 record that was a bubble team to start the season, and because Guyn has a lot to work on? Rip whoever you want dude, that's your call, I just don't understand why you get so upset when we've all called guys out. If it's deserved, so be it. Again, it's just debate.

 

[L-T]

Give me one instance of someone ripping a player?

Jeff, there are a lot of nervous people right now. I don't have time to go hunting right now. I'm going to watch the UFC for a while, but I promise to get you some examples. This will be easy. But, you can just go back up this thread to see comments relating to his basketball IQ, his play being brutal, and him being a train wreck. If I said that about Mick, everyone would say I'm ripping him. If Ge'Lawn's family is reading this forum, how would they view these comments? How are recruits viewing them? I've been accused of costing us recruits because of complaing about Mick. That's pretty laughable, but it has been said. The same principle applies to the student athletes as well.

 

[bearcat jeff]

Great synopsis, L-T. You and I have been GG's only supporters on this site from the inception. You spelled it out exactly. I'd like to add that he has been improving each game. All the nay-sayers harp on his 3 pt %, but his shots show good form, he's open and, I'm sure, encouraged by Cronin to shoot. His misses are not airballs, but rather they are near misses. When he does make them, they are nothing but net. They will fall, but never enough to bring his overall % up to where all the GG haters deem it should be. Too bad we can't harness some of TC's offensive spunk with GG's defensive tenacity. Would make both better players. But we can combine their stats and wind up with both good offensive numbers and great defensive shutdown's of the opposition's PG (or whomever they guard). Last couple of games, GG has looked much better while TC seems to have hit a freshman slump of sorts. Both will have their ups and downs, but that's why there are 40 minutes to share each game.

To say "I think Caupain should start" is not being non-supportive of GG.

Caupain = 6.8 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 2.2 apg, 1.1 spg while shooting .412 from the field,
.736 from the ft line, and .421 from the 3.

GG = 4.7 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 0.8 apg 0.4 spg and has a negative assist to turnover ratio while shooting .324 from the field, .579 from the ft line and .276 from the 3.

Go figure why people would like to see Caupain start? Defense considered.