Ge'Lawn Guyn

[#BearcatNation]

Jeff, there are a lot of nervous people right now. I don't have time to go hunting right now. I'm going to watch the UFC for a while, but I promise to get you some examples. This will be easy. But, you can just go back up this thread to see comments relating to his basketball IQ, his play being brutal, and him being a train wreck. If I said that about Mick, everyone would say I'm ripping him. If Ge'Lawn's family is reading this forum, how would they view these comments? How are recruits viewing them? I've been accused of costing us recruits because of complaing about Mick. That's pretty laughable, but it has been said. The same principle applies to the student athletes as well.

You're flat-out being crazy. People have much more of a reason to be upset with Guyn than Cronin; you make it sound like they both have the same issues, which frankly is impossible. Every forum says negative things about players. You can't possibly suggest we only say positive things about players here. That'd be the most boring forum ever. We are fans that are allowed to have opinions. It's like saying we can't tell our buddy sitting next to us at the game that Titus has a terrible jump shot because his Aunt might be sitting behind you.

 

[bearcat jeff]

This thread has gone way too far into nonsense and I'm close to closing it. Not because I feel anybody has done anything wrong, but because it has been flamed unnecessarily and will now probably descend further. It's a shame honest debate has been hijacked. Nobody has said anything negative about a player beyond on court performance which is fair game. If you can't deal with that place your posts on another board in the future.

 

[bearcat jeff]

LT here's your comments on Sean Kilpatrick which are no different than the things said on this thread:

"His shooting percentages have steadily declined since his freshman year. Last year he only shot 39.8% overall and 30% from 3. At some point we need to quit referring to it as a slump. It is what it is. He's the one who needs to recognize the value in shooting closer to the basket and driving and drawing fouls, plus drawing the defense to him and making the nice pass for an assist......and quit standing outside the arc and throwing up bricks. Fortunately, some of the other players are improving behind the arc and they are picking up the slack. But, I don't expect SK to magically become a great shooter. It would be nice if he could at least get back to 30% from the 3-pt. line instead of the 10% that he's been shooting for a while."

Is that bashing? No! Neither is what people have said about GG so stop flaming things.

 

[L-T]

Here's the difference. Read this slowly so you can understand it. No one on here has said it is not OK to critique the coach. But most do it fairly. You, on the other hand, take it to the extreme and make it about yourself. To call for the coach to be fired after a regular season loss, especially after 3 straight NCAA tourney appearances is NOT fair. To then bring up that you have been saying this for 8 years and have been finally proven correct makes it a pitiful cry for attention. That would be similar to calling for one of the players to be thrown off the team after missing a shot that cost them a game. And then saying that you have been saying this for his entire time on the team and have been finally proven right. It would NOT be fair. BTW, no one has 'ripped' Ge-Lawn Guyn on here. Saying that they think that Caupain should start over him just means that they think he is a better player. Doesn't mean that they want him off the team, like you would concerning Cronin after the Xavier loss. See the difference? Didn't think so.

Read this real slowly so you can understand it. When someone has been consistent in his criticism of the coach over a number of years, then it is absolutely fair to make those statements after being embarrassed by a hated rival, on the heels of another embarrassing loss to New Mexico.....and more importantly, on the heels of a season where we rose to #8, then melted down to finish with a #10 seed and out in the 1st round of the NCAA. In other words, that loss wasn't anything special to me. It was more of the same. What might have been unfair was the number of his usual supporters who did melt down on him after those games.

Your post, as usual, had an accuracy percentage about on par with Justin Jackson's 3-pt. shooting percentage. Please produce the date and time of my post where I declared that I have been saying this for 8 years and have finally been proven correct, lol, in my pitiful cry for attention. Here's your chance for some credibility big boy. I'm pretty confident who will be proven credible here.

The good news is that Whit didn't listen to me, or all the others who melted down, and Mick came fighting back. I love fighters, and in hind site, I'm big enough to admit that I was wrong in some of the things I said then. Where he has us today is a place I'm happy with. I 've been able to see some recruits who finally impress me, so he is answering some of the things that I've been complaining about. That's all I can ask for. There's still more to accomplish, but it looks like he's on his way to doing it, so I'm now much more hopeful about Mick.

 

[L-T]

LT here's your comments on Sean Kilpatrick which are no different than the things said on this thread:

"His shooting percentages have steadily declined since his freshman year. Last year he only shot 39.8% overall and 30% from 3. At some point we need to quit referring to it as a slump. It is what it is. He's the one who needs to recognize the value in shooting closer to the basket and driving and drawing fouls, plus drawing the defense to him and making the nice pass for an assist......and quit standing outside the arc and throwing up bricks. Fortunately, some of the other players are improving behind the arc and they are picking up the slack. But, I don't expect SK to magically become a great shooter. It would be nice if he could at least get back to 30% from the 3-pt. line instead of the 10% that he's been shooting for a while."

Is that bashing? No! Neither is what people have said about GG so stop flaming things.

Jeff, my comments above were shortly after declaring that SK should have a banner on the wall next to Kenyon, Big "O", and Jack. Stating facts and actual statistics about a player is far different than questioning his IQ, calling him a train wreck, and calling his game brutal. This was a pretty weak example to defend your stance.

I'm often accused of giving Mick back-handed compliments, and even you are often commenting that you can't believe in a year when we are 18-2 that someone would complain about the coach. When you and others state that TC should be starting, isn't that really a back-handed bash of our coach? I too find it hard to believe that in a year when we are 18-2, and have won 11 or 12 straight games, that you would call into question our coach's ability to pick the most deserving point guard to start on this team. I agree with the coach's decision on starting GG, and I predict he will be starting next year as well. There's obviously a lot more that goes into the coach's decision on who will start than those stats that you posted.

 

[bearcat jeff]

Jeff, my comments above were shortly after declaring that SK should have a banner on the wall next to Kenyon, Big "O", and Jack. Stating facts and actual statistics about a player is far different than questioning his IQ, calling him a train wreck, and calling his game brutal. This was a pretty weak example to defend your stance.

I'm often accused of giving Mick back-handed compliments, and even you are often commenting that you can't believe in a year when we are 18-2 that someone would complain about the coach. When you and others state that TC should be starting, isn't that really a back-handed bash of our coach? I too find it hard to believe that in a year when we are 18-2, and have won 11 or 12 straight games, that you would call into question our coach's ability to pick the most deserving point guard to start on this team. I agree with the coach's decision on starting GG, and I predict he will be starting next year as well. There's obviously a lot more that goes into the coach's decision on who will start than those stats that you posted.

You can't have it both ways LT. The people on this thread haven't said, nor done, anything different than you. My suggestion is to chill and to debate not to flame threads by making statements like "I too find it hard to believe that in a year when we are 18-2, and have won 11 or 12 straight games, that you would call into question our coach's ability to pick the most deserving point guard to start on this team." A statement like this has no credibility from someone who has lobbied for the coaches dismissal for 8 years. Here's another example of your hypocrisy, "Your post, as usual, had an accuracy percentage about on par with Justin Jackson's 3-pt. shooting percentage. " I see through this stuff and my patience with it is thin. We had some debates on BCN before I left that site never to return because of stuff like this. It's not going to happen here.

 

[BDcats]

^^^^^^^

 

[anbuc88]

Read this real slowly so you can understand it. When someone has been consistent in his criticism of the coach over a number of years, then it is absolutely fair to make those statements after being embarrassed by a hated rival, on the heels of another embarrassing loss to New Mexico.....and more importantly, on the heels of a season where we rose to #8, then melted down to finish with a #10 seed and out in the 1st round of the NCAA. In other words, that loss wasn't anything special to me. It was more of the same. What might have been unfair was the number of his usual supporters who did melt down on him after those games.

Your post, as usual, had an accuracy percentage about on par with Justin Jackson's 3-pt. shooting percentage. Please produce the date and time of my post where I declared that I have been saying this for 8 years and have finally been proven correct, lol, in my pitiful cry for attention. Here's your chance for some credibility big boy. I'm pretty confident who will be proven credible here.

The good news is that Whit didn't listen to me, or all the others who melted down, and Mick came fighting back. I love fighters, and in hind site, I'm big enough to admit that I was wrong in some of the things I said then. Where he has us today is a place I'm happy with. I 've been able to see some recruits who finally impress me, so he is answering some of the things that I've been complaining about. That's all I can ask for. There's still more to accomplish, but it looks like he's on his way to doing it, so I'm now much more hopeful about Mick.

This was your post on 12/15/13 at 1 am after the Xavier loss:

"An awful lot of hardcore Bearcat fans have been saying this for the last five years. But, if you state that on these Mick Cronin Fan Club sites, you get attacked, called a Troll, and eventually banned. It's being proved out who was dead-on right all these years. I walked out of that arena last night embarrassed to the core. It's comforting to know that the closest thing we have to a shooter is leaving this year and we're recruiting nothing but big men. Add to that the one guy most of us thought has the type of offensive talent we've been lacking, is now transferring to Ball State and you have the sorry state of Bearcat basketball in 2013 in year #8 of the Mick Cronin era. So, with nothing on the horizon to give us any hope for year #9, we"re now looking at year # 10. Does anyone really believe year#10 will be different.

The Cronin era needs to end like the Rick Minter era did. Both were decent coaches, but incapable of taking this program to the next level. Like the title of the old TV comedy said..."Eight is Enough".

For me, the only thing that eased last night's pain was coming on this Mick Cronin Fan Club site and looking at the meltdown from his disciples. I had to chuckle.

I'll be in my seats for every game the rest of this year supporting this program like I Always have, and hoping that Whit Babcock and Santa Ono have finally had enough of mediocrity and dwindling fan support and make the right move to repair this program. After last night, the task is daunting. Thanks Mick for having a full week to prepare for X and giving us that effort. Wow!!!!!"


So you have been 'proved dead-on right after all of these years' and 'Eight is Enough'. The loss of Jeramiah Davis really has been difficult to overcome, hasn't it? How's these fact based predictions working for you now? Still chuckling at the posters on the Mick Cronin Fan Club site? Hahaha! Gosh, don't you wish this wasn't an anonymous site so that you could be given the respect you so desperately crave. LMAO.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Here is a few pearls of wisdom from L-T. Here he is calling a couple of our players stiffs. He is not being critical of their play but calling them stiffs.

I agree with UCBEARCATS. The more we accept mediocrity, the deeper we'll fall into it. As I said at the beginning of this thread, there's nothing good about this conference, and I don't think Mick has us positioned to even do well as we launch into what most of America will see as a Mid-Major conference. Memphis is coming in with a recruiting class of (2) 5-star recruits and (3) 4-star recruits. Louisville is back. We saw how good Temple looked over the weekend, but they are losing Wyatt. This conference won't command 8 or 9 spots in the NCAA like the Big East did, so we'll need to be near the top of the conference.

We have a serious...almost critical situation centered around our inability to shoot the ball and we're not going to get much help (at least initially) from our recruits. We lose Cash and Parker, neither a dead-eye shooter, but both at least decent. We lose our best interior defender, and outside the two stiffs we have coming back, we're pinning a lot of our hope on a center who has almost no high school experience. So, we're down to Lawrence. We need him to be a 5-star 1st year contributor in the mold of what we've seen from Kentucky's five-star recruits. Anything less and we're in serious trouble. We've already had a few posters who have seen him play live this year and have not painted a very pretty picture. So, if their assessment is accurate, he doesn't sound like a Kentucky-type 5-star.

We can argue over Mick Cronin all we want, but this year we will definitely see if he is an elite coach or not. Because, I think he has a major challenge on his hands for the next season, and it will take a damn good coach to overcome these challenges. This season ended on a major downer. There's no disputing that. Mick must stem the tide of how this season ended, and has to do it in spite of the negativity that also surrounds this new league, which could have a serious impact on recruiting as well. If he wasn't a great recruiter in the Big East, will he be one in the America 12?

After the next season, the Mick Cronin debate should be over. He'll either prove he is elite, or he'll crash and burn.

 

[anbuc88]

^^^^^^^. The 2 stiffs that we have coming back that he referred to are JJ and Rubles. But don't forget, he never gave up on JJ like a lot of posters on here did. When your posts are all fact based, like Longtimers are, you can always twist the facts to your benefit.

 

[CaptDale]

Here is a few pearls of wisdom from L-T. Here he is calling a couple of our players stiffs. He is not being critical of their play but calling them stiffs.

I agree with UCBEARCATS. The more we accept mediocrity, the deeper we'll fall into it. As I said at the beginning of this thread, there's nothing good about this conference, and I don't think Mick has us positioned to even do well as we launch into what most of America will see as a Mid-Major conference. Memphis is coming in with a recruiting class of (2) 5-star recruits and (3) 4-star recruits. Louisville is back. We saw how good Temple looked over the weekend, but they are losing Wyatt. This conference won't command 8 or 9 spots in the NCAA like the Big East did, so we'll need to be near the top of the conference.

We have a serious...almost critical situation centered around our inability to shoot the ball and we're not going to get much help (at least initially) from our recruits. We lose Cash and Parker, neither a dead-eye shooter, but both at least decent. We lose our best interior defender, and outside the two stiffs we have coming back, we're pinning a lot of our hope on a center who has almost no high school experience. So, we're down to Lawrence. We need him to be a 5-star 1st year contributor in the mold of what we've seen from Kentucky's five-star recruits. Anything less and we're in serious trouble. We've already had a few posters who have seen him play live this year and have not painted a very pretty picture. So, if their assessment is accurate, he doesn't sound like a Kentucky-type 5-star.

We can argue over Mick Cronin all we want, but this year we will definitely see if he is an elite coach or not. Because, I think he has a major challenge on his hands for the next season, and it will take a damn good coach to overcome these challenges. This season ended on a major downer. There's no disputing that. Mick must stem the tide of how this season ended, and has to do it in spite of the negativity that also surrounds this new league, which could have a serious impact on recruiting as well. If he wasn't a great recruiter in the Big East, will he be one in the America 12?

After the next season, the Mick Cronin debate should be over. He'll either prove he is elite, or he'll crash and burn.

I think you guys need to give L-T a break. He has already recanted a lot of what he observed from the beginning of the season and has been saying so especially about Cronin. We all saw the X and NM games and were unnerved by them with lots of doubts. I was one of them. I still have doubts how we'll play vs effective Bigs. But those of us who criticized earlier in the season have had our opinions altered (not 100% necessarily). Cronin has found effective combinations to win games and is using them effectively. We still have not found a high % outside shooter, but there are a couple of guys with nice touches from 3 in the 40's, and a couple more who have nice shots but they don't fall. JJ fooled us all. Nobody could have foreseen his play this year. Everyone is entitled to change their opinion - just as the team has learned to be cohesive. We have a tough stretch of games upcoming. That's when we'll find out for real what the team and coaching staff are made of. I don't look for any blowouts (of course I said that before X and NM), and I still believe that's true.
Go Cats!

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I think you guys need to give L-T a break. He has already recanted a lot of what he observed from the beginning of the season and has been saying so especially about Cronin. We all saw the X and NM games and were unnerved by them with lots of doubts. I was one of them. I still have doubts how we'll play vs effective Bigs. But those of us who criticized earlier in the season have had our opinions altered (not 100% necessarily). Cronin has found effective combinations to win games and is using them effectively. We still have not found a high % outside shooter, but there are a couple of guys with nice touches from 3 in the 40's, and a couple more who have nice shots but they don't fall. JJ fooled us all. Nobody could have foreseen his play this year. Everyone is entitled to change their opinion - just as the team has learned to be cohesive. We have a tough stretch of games upcoming. That's when we'll find out for real what the team and coaching staff are made of. I don't look for any blowouts (of course I said that before X and NM), and I still believe that's true.
Go Cats!

I have no problem with L-T. Debate with him all the time. He was discussing attacking the players and accusing others. I pointed out a example of his doing the same thing.

 

[anbuc88]

I think you guys need to give L-T a break. He has already recanted a lot of what he observed from the beginning of the season and has been saying so especially about Cronin. We all saw the X and NM games and were unnerved by them with lots of doubts. I was one of them. I still have doubts how we'll play vs effective Bigs. But those of us who criticized earlier in the season have had our opinions altered (not 100% necessarily). Cronin has found effective combinations to win games and is using them effectively. We still have not found a high % outside shooter, but there are a couple of guys with nice touches from 3 in the 40's, and a couple more who have nice shots but they don't fall. JJ fooled us all. Nobody could have foreseen his play this year. Everyone is entitled to change their opinion - just as the team has learned to be cohesive. We have a tough stretch of games upcoming. That's when we'll find out for real what the team and coaching staff are made of. I don't look for any blowouts (of course I said that before X and NM), and I still believe that's true.
Go Cats!

You don't know Longtimer very well. He has not changed his mind. He flamed this thread for no other reason than to again bring up his dislike for Cronin. Wait for the first couple of losses and he will be back to he usual tricks. This is what he did at Beacatnews, and what he is doing here. For him to come out and say he has been consistent in his critisism of Cronin over the past years, and calling for him to be fired after an embarrassing loss to NM tells you all you need to know. Losing to NM at the Pit by 10 is an embarrassing loss. Really??? Going to 3 straight NCAA's and a sweet 16 in the past few years should be grounds for criticism? And then losing 2 straight games in early December should be grounds for being fired??? Do you think he was calling for Huggins to be fired after having 1 sweet 16 in his last 10 years as the coach, or after losses to Xavier when ranked #1 not once, but twice? I think not. Longtimer has an agenda, and he is finding there are fewer and fewer people who agree with him as time goes on. Bearcat Banter currently has a Mick Cronin appreciation thread and multiple posters have chimed in. The reality that he hasn't been "proved dead-on right after all these years" may finally be starting to sink in. Hard for a fact based poster like him to come to grips with.

 

[JumpinJack5]

Guyn needs to take a lesson from Shaq and pick his spots to shoot the 3. He jacks up way too many 3s, if he would just cut back and only shoot when he is wide open, it would benefit the whole team. Also, he needs to drive more, speed is his best weapon. Lastly, what happened to his ft shooting this year? It seems like it has fallen off dramatically, which isn't good if you are a pg.

Welp, I tried to get us back on track, but it looks like that won't be happening.

 

[coverley]

You don't know Longtimer very well. He has not changed his mind. He flamed this thread for no other reason than to again bring up his dislike for Cronin. Wait for the first couple of losses and he will be back to he usual tricks. This is what he did at Beacatnews, and what he is doing here. For him to come out and say he has been consistent in his critisism of Cronin over the past years, and calling for him to be fired after an embarrassing loss to NM tells you all you need to know. Losing to NM at the Pit by 10 is an embarrassing loss. Really??? Going to 3 straight NCAA's and a sweet 16 in the past few years should be grounds for criticism? And then losing 2 straight games in early December should be grounds for being fired??? Do you think he was calling for Huggins to be fired after having 1 sweet 16 in his last 10 years as the coach, or after losses to Xavier when ranked #1 not once, but twice? I think not. Longtimer has an agenda, and he is finding there are fewer and fewer people who agree with him as time goes on. Bearcat Banter currently has a Mick Cronin appreciation thread and multiple posters have chimed in. The reality that he hasn't been "proved dead-on right after all these years" may finally be starting to sink in. Hard for a fact based poster like him to come to grips with.

Very accurate summary. Almost reminds me of a poster from bearcat news named longzheimer who thought he was an expert because he had passively watched basketball for years.

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

Very accurate summary. Almost reminds me of a poster from bearcat news named longzheimer who thought he was an expert because he had passively watched basketball for years.

Same guy. Weren't you one of the biggest Mick bashers on Banter??

 

[bearcat jeff]

I think you guys need to give L-T a break. He has already recanted a lot of what he observed from the beginning of the season and has been saying so especially about Cronin. We all saw the X and NM games and were unnerved by them with lots of doubts. I was one of them. I still have doubts how we'll play vs effective Bigs. But those of us who criticized earlier in the season have had our opinions altered (not 100% necessarily). Cronin has found effective combinations to win games and is using them effectively. We still have not found a high % outside shooter, but there are a couple of guys with nice touches from 3 in the 40's, and a couple more who have nice shots but they don't fall. JJ fooled us all. Nobody could have foreseen his play this year. Everyone is entitled to change their opinion - just as the team has learned to be cohesive. We have a tough stretch of games upcoming. That's when we'll find out for real what the team and coaching staff are made of. I don't look for any blowouts (of course I said that before X and NM), and I still believe that's true.
Go Cats!

You don't call people hypocrites for something you do yourself and have done for years and not expect a backlash. The coaching staff and players have done an outstanding job already in the face of many new pieces, injuries, and ineligible players. If you still need proof of that after 2 wins against current top 25 teams, an undefeated conference record, and and 18-2 overall record, I'm, not sure what to tell you.

JJ5 thanks for trying to get things back on track...thread closed.