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justinhub2003 said:
Lol I think mike Bohn told him he had to be the anti mick Cronin and he’s a man of his word.

Slow plodding bigs
No defense
No athleticism
No toughness
No rebounding


Lol he really is the anti mick Cronin.
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Hey watch your mouth. They know how make layups, so!
 
In the end the blame always goes to the head coach. He can give whatever reasons, justification or excuses he wants. But his job is to win.

Our next opponent UCF, just beat #15 Florida State @FSU. UCF's top 5 players in terms of minutes are 1 senior, 3 sophomores and 1 freshman. It was UCF's third game of the year and after an ~2 week layoff. Like UC, they had plenty of opportunity to make excuses, unlike UC they looked well coached and won.

The bigs aren't up to snuff. That's on Brannen, he may not have gotten exactly who he wanted, but he got who we have. He could have done better, he should have done better.

Keith seems to have regressed, Harvey seems to have regressed, MAW hasn't improved. Where's the player development? That is also on Brannen.

This team seems weak both in play and in mindset. The last couple games it has looked like Brannen is losing control of the team. Against USF, no on played defense and Brannen couldn't get anyone to, despite his best efforts. This game, players started playing hero ball and shooting bad threes and again, Brannen couldn't change it.

We don't just look like a poorly coached team, we look like a team of players who doesn't respect, listen to or believe in their coach. If Brannen can't change something, this team is likely to give up when a game starts going poorly (and lots of them will).

Finishing below 0.500 is simply unacceptable, but it looks like we may be trending that direction. If we finish below .500 I wouldn't be surprised to see guys start transferring out, guys don't want to play for a poorly coached, bad team. It could easily set UC back to full rebuild mode and give us years before we are relevant again. That is why I have said Brannen should be fired if we finish under .500, I didn't think it was likely, but now it is looking like a strong possibility.

This year it doesn't look like there is a simple fix - such as making Jarron the PG. Going small with Eason starting at center and Davenport at PF is the best bet, but if that doesn't work, we are in serious trouble.
 
skyblade said:
In the end the blame always goes to the head coach. He can give whatever reasons, justification or excuses he wants. But his job is to win.

Our next opponent UCF, just beat #15 Florida State @FSU. UCF's top 5 players in terms of minutes are 1 senior, 3 sophomores and 1 freshman. It was UCF's third game of the year and after an ~2 week layoff. Like UC, they had plenty of opportunity to make excuses, unlike UC they looked well coached and won.

The bigs aren't up to snuff. That's on Brannen, he may not have gotten exactly who he wanted, but he got who we have. He could have done better, he should have done better.

Keith seems to have regressed, Harvey seems to have regressed, MAW hasn't improved. Where's the player development? That is also on Brannen.

This team seems weak both in play and in mindset. The last couple games it has looked like Brannen is losing control of the team. Against USF, no on played defense and Brannen couldn't get anyone to, despite his best efforts. This game, players started playing hero ball and shooting bad threes and again, Brannen couldn't change it.

We don't just look like a poorly coached team, we look like a team of players who doesn't respect, listen to or believe in their coach. If Brannen can't change something, this team is likely to give up when a game starts going poorly (and lots of them will).

Finishing below 0.500 is simply unacceptable, but it looks like we may be trending that direction. If we finish below .500 I wouldn't be surprised to see guys start transferring out, guys don't want to play for a poorly coached, bad team. It could easily set UC back to full rebuild mode and give us years before we are relevant again. That is why I have said Brannen should be fired if we finish under .500, I didn't think it was likely, but now it is looking like a strong possibility.

This year it doesn't look like there is a simple fix - such as making Jarron the PG. Going small with Eason starting at center and Davenport at PF is the best bet, but if that doesn't work, we are in serious trouble.
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Finishing with a .500 is meaningless. I think there are some issues (obviously) but it’s not like we get anything for finishing .500 as opposed to finishing below .500. Not sure why that matters
 
We recruited coaches kids... Who literally look like they have never been coached a lick of defense. Straight line dribble drives for layups cannot happen. Backdoors left and right.

We have zero rim protection from vogt rap and honestly Eason.

Gabe came in last night and got torched... Yet got one shot. Cold off bench and it was pure.

The turnovers are out of control.

The fouling is out of control.

I tend to think you go small ball. Empty the lane.Davenport has ability to dribble drive as does tari Keith. Small ball makes sense.. but won't work unless you got shooters... Gabe going to have to get minutes.
 
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TheLivingLegend said:
We recruited coaches kids... Who literally look like they have never been coached a lick of defense. Straight line dribble drives for layups cannot happen. Backdoors left and right.

We have zero rim protection from vogt rap and honestly Eason.

Gabe came in last night and got torched... Yet got one shot. Cold off bench and it was pure.

The turnovers are out of control.

The fouling is out of control.

I tend to think you go small ball. Empty the lane.Davenport has ability to dribble drive as does tari Keith. Small ball makes sense.. but won't work unless you got shooters... Gabe going to have to get minutes.
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Yeah, a lot of it seems like common sense things. Like we never help on defense. Just let the other team score. I’ve never seen that from any basketball team, at any level. They are obviously being told to do that for some reason
 
cincyguy13 said:
Finishing with a .500 is meaningless. I think there are some issues (obviously) but it’s not like we get anything for finishing .500 as opposed to finishing below .500. Not sure why that matters
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It is an arbitrary cut off point, but so is pretty much any other I could use. And if I said he should be fired if they look like a poorly coached team all year, people would debate what is/isn't poorly coached.

Above .500 means we beat the teams we are supposed to beat and win at least a few games against good teams. At this point, it also means that we turned things around at least somewhat.
 
cincyguy13 said:
Yeah, a lot of it seems like common sense things. Like we never help on defense. Just let the other team score. I’ve never seen that from any basketball team, at any level. They are obviously being told to do that for some reason
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I'm not sure what the defensive plan is, or if we even have one. I know Brannen has said he wants to play straight man-to-man, each guy guards their own guy. He did that at NKU, but at NKU they rarely face someone who simply isn't not guardable 1v1.

I think to a degree we just don't follow the game plan. So who knows what our defense is supposed to look like. In both this game and the USF game there were times when I was thinking Huggins would have put the walk-ons in and told the scholarship players that they can play again when they do what he has told them to do.

Brannen seems to believe in just sitting back, watching and hoping the team learns. I guess he wants to do the teaching in film and practice. But that seems to be a thin line, what happens if the players keep doing whatever they want and not what they've been coached to do?
 
skyblade said:
I'm not sure what the defensive plan is, or if we even have one. I know Brannen has said he wants to play straight man-to-man, each guy guards their own guy. He did that at NKU, but at NKU they rarely face someone who simply isn't not guardable 1v1.

I think to a degree we just don't follow the game plan. So who knows what our defense is supposed to look like. In both this game and the USF game there were times when I was thinking Huggins would have put the walk-ons in and told the scholarship players that they can play again when they do what he has told them to do.

Brannen seems to believe in just sitting back, watching and hoping the team learns. I guess he wants to do the teaching in film and practice. But that seems to be a thin line, what happens if the players keep doing whatever they want and not what they've been coached to do?
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It’s really hard to play straight man and stay in front of your guy the whole time. That’s pretty much impossible. I honestly doubt that’s his plan. There are about 3 people in the world that can do that. The offense always has the advantage because the defense is reacting. I’m not sure the plan but I’m pretty sure it’s not that.
Guys get beat off the bounce at all levels of basketball. Basketball doesn’t change from level to level, the athletes and skill does. But it’s also comparable to that level. It’s the same game. Same principles
 
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The guy was an assistant at Alabama, vcu. He played at Marshall. His friends are coaches at Dayton and Louisville. He’s been around the game his entire life. I’m pretty sure he understands the level of players at each level. The “mid major coach” thing or the “players at this level” thing doesn’t make sense. He knows the game far better than us. So does his staff. There are plenty of issues, I don’t think that’s one of them
 
A lot of people I’m seeing saying everything is the coaches fault, which is fair, were not saying that after the Nevada game or any other match collapse we had. I remember them defending that coach. Weird
 
cincyguy13 said:
The guy was an assistant at Alabama, vcu. He played at Marshall. His friends are coaches at Dayton and Louisville. He’s been around the game his entire life. I’m pretty sure he understands the level of players at each level. The “mid major coach” thing or the “players at this level” thing doesn’t make sense. He knows the game far better than us. So does his staff. There are plenty of issues, I don’t think that’s one of them
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He hasn't been a head coach at those places though. Head coaches are notoriously arrogant, self-confident and do things their way, Huggins and Cronin both were and it seems Brannen is as well.

Is it possible that Brannen is just bad at evaluating players - or at least bigs - using the eye-ball test? Perhaps he is biased towards big white guys because he is one.

I seem to recall him saying he thinks Vogt could play in the NBA. He blew the evaluating on McNeal, blew it on Rap, blew it on Sorolla, I'd argue even Vogt was a bad recruit because it seems he was brought in to play and not just as a bench guy to support the coach.

There is obviously a major problem in his recruitment of big men and I'd argue also his choice of who he plays - Diarra should have been getting more minutes last year and this year. Whatever the cause, it needs to be fixed yesterday. Even next year is not looking promising, it's hard to get bigs who can play immediately and he needs to find at least 2 if Diarra doesn't come back.

Eason looks good, but he can only do so much alone.
 
A lot of people I’m seeing saying everything is the coaches fault, which is fair, were not saying that after the Nevada game or any other match collapse we had. I remember them defending that coach. Weird
 
skyblade said:
He hasn't been a head coach at those places though. Head coaches are notoriously arrogant, self-confident and do things their way, Huggins and Cronin both were and it seems Brannen is as well.

Is it possible that Brannen is just bad at evaluating players - or at least bigs - using the eye-ball test? Perhaps he is biased towards big white guys because he is one.

I seem to recall him saying he thinks Vogt could play in the NBA. He blew the evaluating on McNeal, blew it on Rap, blew it on Sorolla, I'd argue even Vogt was a bad recruit because it seems he was brought in to play and not just as a bench guy to support the coach.

There is obviously a major problem in his recruitment of big men and I'd argue also his choice of who he plays - Diarra should have been getting more minutes last year and this year. Whatever the cause, it needs to be fixed yesterday. Even next year is not looking promising, it's hard to get bigs who can play immediately and he needs to find at least 2 if Diarra doesn't come back.

Eason looks good, but he can only do so much alone.
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The bigs just don’t exist like you think they do. Most bigs cronin had were projects that took 3-4 years to develop. That’s easy to do after 8-10 years and you have a roster. Brannen had to get big bodies. Maybe he thought they were better, maybe he knew exactly what he was getting. There is no way to know, but he probably needs more than a year to tell for sure. Considering he was hired late the first year.
 
cincyguy13 said:
A lot of people I’m seeing saying everything is the coaches fault, which is fair, were not saying that after the Nevada game or any other match collapse we had. I remember them defending that coach. Weird
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Cronin earned some trust that he at least knew what he was doing.

He didn’t always win. But we’d fight for every ball. Defend every shot at the rim and play with a soul. We were known for giving teams hell. I took pride in that.

Brannen hasn’t earned that kinda respect yet or trust.

I wish mick had more post season success but I also enjoyed being a season ticket holder and winning a shit ton of games. I never let a game in March define an entire season of fun & success.

I think mick is a better coach then Brannen just based on what I’ve seen. But Mick is gone. So John either has to get better or move on.

I’d rather him get better. But man, it’s tough to see his vision with no 2021 class, and soul crushing basketball.


I think he maybe in over his head. This is likely his last stop as a head coach if he ruins this program into the ground. So I’d hope that fuels him to do something better.

I also feel he should feel the weight of this fan base. He needs to feel that we won’t accept losing. And it will either motivate him or break him.

I hope it motivates
 
Barring some incredible midseason turnaround, this season can be chalked as a wash from a wins/losses standpoint. No win over our biggest rival. No shot at the regular season conference championship. No contention for an NCAA at-large bid.

At this point, our best hope should be we are not plagued by attrition and can put out the following line-up two years from now:

Eason
Davenport
Harvey
MAW
Saunders

With the Madsen twins and Lakhin all providing valuable minutes off the bench.

The likelihood of all that playing out in our favor is looking slim, but the only way Brannen will survive this job is if he can get the players to take their knocks over the next 2 seasons while building up the program culture, identity, and team camaraderie.

If he can get a home run recruit or two from the Class of 2022 (Mahaffey from Moeller or Paul McMillan IV) then all the better.
 
I think he could appeal to elite players who hate playing defense.

One look at a few box scores and they’ll sign right on the spot, no better spot for guys who hate defense than Cincinnati.

Coach doesn’t even mention the D word
 
justinhub2003 said:
Cronin earned some trust that he at least knew what he was doing.

He didn’t always win. But we’d fight for every ball. Defend every shot at the rim and play with a soul. We were known for giving teams hell. I took pride in that.

Brannen hasn’t earned that kinda respect yet or trust.

I wish mick had more post season success but I also enjoyed being a season ticket holder and winning a shit ton of games. I never let a game in March define an entire season of fun & success.

I think mick is a better coach then Brannen just based on what I’ve seen. But Mick is gone. So John either has to get better or move on.

I’d rather him get better. But man, it’s tough to see his vision with no 2021 class, and soul crushing basketball.


I think he maybe in over his head. This is likely his last stop as a head coach if he ruins this program into the ground. So I’d hope that fuels him to do something better.

I also feel he should feel the weight of this fan base. He needs to feel that we won’t accept losing. And it will either motivate him or break him.

I hope it motivates
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It’s alarming. Guy needs time though. Another year to see if any progress is made. Takes time. Everyone was ready to run Steele out of town, now they love him.
 
cincyguy13 said:
The bigs just don’t exist like you think they do. Most bigs cronin had were projects that took 3-4 years to develop. That’s easy to do after 8-10 years and you have a roster. Brannen had to get big bodies. Maybe he thought they were better, maybe he knew exactly what he was getting. There is no way to know, but he probably needs more than a year to tell for sure. Considering he was hired late the first year.
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He needed to get or keep a prospect and develop him.

Nsoseme is off averaging 10.7 rebounds and 14.2 points at Georgia State, it's hard to believe that Brannen couldn't have kept him if he wanted him. Hardnett was forced off the team. Diarra was barely given any minutes or any chance to develop. For some reason Diarra would play 2 minutes and get pulled for any mistake, but Rap can commit 5 TO's in consecutive games, still play 20 minutes and move back into the starting lineup.

I knew the moment we recruited Rap that he had no business playing the 4 here and was not going to be a star. I can link you the thread. If I can tell you this, just based on eye test and numbers, then Brannen or someone on his staff should be able to.

I've told you guys since day 1 that Vogt is trash. Sure it took a while to become obvious to others, but again, if I can see that why can't Brannen and his staff?

So Brannen couldn't keep, forced away or didn't give a chance to the players he should have been developing. Now he is stuck without anyone developing and created a cycle where he needs to rely on guys who can contribute immediately. At the very least, in that case he should have gone after a JuCo guy - or a Sophomore/Junior transfer - whom could contribute multiple years, this year was a rebuilding year anyway.

He got a bottom of the barrel big in Rap, a senior wasting a roster spot that could have gone to a player to develop.

Either Brannen is bad at recruiting bigs, bad at evaluating them or both. At this point it seems like both to me and that is very bad for the future.

How many players did Cronin have who really didn't belong on the floor - and were expected to play (since he always had 2/3 guys developing on the bench)? Not very many, sure some of them only contributed on the defense/rebounding end, but they made enough of an impact that they still could play for extended periods if needed. Trevor Moore is the only really bad recruit I can think of for Cronin in the last few years.

Brannen already has 3/4. McNeal, Sorolla, Rap and (arguably) Vogt. I'd bet that Lakhin could be added to that list, but I'll wait to see and hope to be surprised.
 
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