Grand Valley State (Exhibition)

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Jenifer made multiple risky passes that will not fly against a D1 team. But that's ok that's what exhibition is for. I'm sure Mick will point out his mistakes and he will hopefully not try those in real games. He's shot doesn't look nice but if it's effective whose to stop him. He ever be a high volume shooter but he must take the shots he is given to keep the defense honest.

What I was most impressed with Jacob Evans. He looked so smooth. His corner threes were two of the smoothest shots I've seen in a while at UC. Disappointed that in the half court there were a couple times, with Cobb and Johnson, the ball could have been swung but it took a second to long which will be something they have to shore up. Also the rebounding was dosappointing. Can't ever get out rebounded by a D2 team. Not to be doom and gloom but there are definitely some things they need to work on.

Was a perfect exhibition from a coaches perspective. The things you have been pushing them to learn worked, and there a now problems on tape that can be pushed harder in practice going forward...
 
Was a perfect exhibition from a coaches perspective. The things you have been pushing them to learn worked, and there a now problems on tape that can be pushed harder in practice going forward...

Exactly! You don't want your team to peak so early in the season. People acting concerned about the rebounding simply don't understand basketball. We've got a lot of stuff to improve on which is a good thing. Remember Cash's senior year? That season was painful to watch after peaking in December at #8 in the rankings (obviously his injury played a part, but the role players never improved).
 
Many freshmen are stepping into Division 1 and performing just as good, if not better than older division 1 players. All point guards will have some of their passes intercepted. I would rather see a few turnovers than our typical point guards who have neither the ability, nor the guts, to deliver a pass when the opportunity stares them right in the face. The lack of a true point guard has been a huge problem for us and our anemic offense. Rather than rationalizing about why he will eventually struggle, I choose to focus on why he is destined to succeed. I see the recent successes of Division 1 freshmen as a reason to believe he will be no different. I will enjoy seeing his passing, especially against UCONN.

It seems you are specifically focused on critique and not accolades. I don't recall a lot of posts without the accolades. I can guarantee you the coach is going to critique. I have seen almost all optimism about Jenifer's future with some critique about being a little more careful with some passes. I still don't understand what you find comical about a lot of the comments.
 
[ uote=waterhead;118793]It seems you are specifically focused on critique and not accolades. I don't recall a lot of posts without the accolades. I can guarantee you the coach is going to critique. I have seen almost all optimism about Jenifer's future with some critique about being a little more careful with some passes. I still don't understand what you find comical about a lot of the comments.[/quote]

The thought that many of his passes will suddenly get intercepted by the big bad Division 1 bullies. Ridiculous. I saw very few if any passes that were low percentage. The one that was interceped was about a foot from being perfect.
 
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Exactly! You don't want your team to peak so early in the season. People acting concerned about the rebounding simply don't understand basketball. We've got a lot of stuff to improve on which is a good thing. Remember Cash's senior year? That season was painful to watch after peaking in December at #8 in the rankings (obviously his injury played a part, but the role players never improved).

How does thinking they should have rebounded better and shown more effort on the glass against s D2 team mean I know nothing about basketball? Lol I agree they have a areas to improve as do all teams and I agree this was a perfect exhibition but I hardly think that if they had worked harder on the glass that would be them "peaking".
 
I am not speculating or rationalizing anything. I am giving my thoughts after seeing Justin play about a hundred times to date between AAU, workouts, open gym, practice, scrimmages and now an exhibition game.

I think he is adjusting well, and will very likely play more than I anticipated when he signed. I see days where his passing has you walking out of the gym buzzing, and days his team has to run multiple times for turning it over far too much and I walk out wondering.

As for what I think of his passing ability, go to the final 10 seconds of the players post game press conference from GVSU...

I have only seen Jenifer play in person once but you can tell he has the ability to be a special player here. I definitely think he has the steepest learning curve due to playing the point. I can see there will be times that we think he is going to be the greatest pg ever to play here and times when he his blamed for losing because of his TO's.

I agree with your assessments on here of Jenifer from the one game I saw him play. He is lethal when he gets into the paint because of his passing skills. He definitely is going to have some growing pains while learning what will actually work at this level.
 
I've now seen him play twice, once against one of the top D1 defenses in the nation (our own team), and once against Grand valley St. In those two games, he had "1" turnover total and that was against GVS, whose player had to go very high and just barely snag what appeared to be a perfectly thrown lob over-the-top down court in transition. Against the outstanding D1 defense, he was perfect, with a litany of picture-perfect passes throughout the game.

The only way those passes would have been low percentage and more likely to have been intercepted by D1 teams, is if Caupain and Cobb, and Johnson were throwing them instead of the guy who has perfected that craft throughout his life. That is why we recruited him, and that is why he'll be able to excel against D1 talent as well.
 
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I've now seen him play twice, once against one of the top D1 defenses in the nation (our own team), and once against Grand valley St. In those two games, he had "1" turnover total and that was against GVS, whose player had to go very high and just barely snag what appeared to be a perfectly thrown lob over-the-top down court in transition. Against the outstanding D1 defense, he was perfect, with a litany of picture-perfect passes throughout the game.

The only way those passes would have been low percentage and more likely to have been intercepted by D1 teams, is if Caupain and Cobb, and Johnson were throwing them instead of the guy who has perfected that craft throughout his life. That is why we recruited him, and that is why he'll be able to excel against D1 talent as well.

If he goes 9:1 assist to turnover ratio or even half of that (hell even one third of that) during the season he will be our starting PG by mid season and Troy will move off the ball and we will be in the Final 4. I am guessing it's not going to go down like that. I am guessing there are going to be growing pains like almost every other freshman ever. But hey...you've seen a scrimmage and an exhibition and have made your assessment. You might be right...and I certainly hope you are.
 
I think we have grown so accustomed to freshman taking years to develop, that we may be going over the top looking for a flaw. A "Don't believe your lying eyes" kind of thing. But freshman have made a big impact in the sport for years now, and this freshman class of ours just looks different. We've talked a lot about Mick changing his philosophy a bit in recruiting...well this is what that looks like. No disrespect to guys like Guyn and Sanders, but Jenifer and Evans are not them. They are already on a another level compared to them.
 
I think we have grown so accustomed to freshman taking years to develop, that we may be going over the top looking for a flaw. A "Don't believe your lying eyes" kind of thing. But freshman have made a big impact in the sport for years now, and this freshman class of ours just looks different. We've talked a lot about Mick changing his philosophy a bit in recruiting...well this is what that looks like. No disrespect to guys like Guyn and Sanders, but Jenifer and Evans are not them. They are already on a another level compared to them.

Exactly! We've grown so accustomed to our "typical" freshman, that I guess it becomes difficult for some to fathom that it might be different with Jenifer. When Waterhead says I've made up my mind after seeing two performances, he's correct. But the fact is, I've seen a half century of incoming freshmen classes, so I can actually tell pretty quickly when I see one with talent above and beyond the norm.

The refreshing thing is....a few years back we were arguing about whether players were either god-awful or mediocre, and whether or not the coach was worth a damn. Today, we're arguing about whether players are good or great, and whether or not we'll be Sweet 16, Elite 8, or Final 4, and there is virtually no mention of the coach anymore.

I'd say that is exceptional progress!
 
I think we have grown so accustomed to freshman taking years to develop, that we may be going over the top looking for a flaw. A "Don't believe your lying eyes" kind of thing. But freshman have made a big impact in the sport for years now, and this freshman class of ours just looks different. We've talked a lot about Mick changing his philosophy a bit in recruiting...well this is what that looks like. No disrespect to guys like Guyn and Sanders, but Jenifer and Evans are not them. They are already on a another level compared to them.

There's no doubt that freshmen can contribute and that it's highly possible we'll get more out of Jenifer than most expect. I think it's kind of ridiculous though for some to make these grand predictions of his success based on seeing him play in the scrimmage and an exhibition game.

Honestly, he's a 3 star recruit ranked 33rd at his position for a reason. I'm not saying recruiting rankings define a player's success because that's clearly not the case. But if it were that easy to tell this kid was a superstar based on seeing him play twice don't you think the guys who do it for a living would have him ranked much higher?? It's absolutely ludicrous to be talking about this kid breaking an all time assist record based off of what anyone has seen from him yet.

Jenifer looks good to me, I think he has a chance to be very good eventually. Let's hope he grows and develops into what everyone thinks he can be, but let's also not set such a high bar that he isn't able to reach it. I can already see the same people putting all this hype on him coming back midway through the season and declaring him a bust because he's not lighting the world on fire.
 
If it's 3 to 1 or better it probably wouldn't matter. Last year TC was less than 2 to 1. I don't think that ratio was in the top 150 players averaging 3 assts per game or better...i could be wrong but we have to get better there.

He was 3.6 to 2.1. If he's going to have 2 TO'S per game he has to average 5-6 assists or get the TO'S down to 1-1.5.
I'm talking jenifer
 
If he goes 9:1 assist to turnover ratio or even half of that (hell even one third of that) during the season he will be our starting PG by mid season and Troy will move off the ball and we will be in the Final 4. I am guessing it's not going to go down like that. I am guessing there are going to be growing pains like almost every other freshman ever. But hey...you've seen a scrimmage and an exhibition and have made your assessment. You might be right...and I certainly hope you are.
he knows what to do with ball in his hands. Now problem is going to are players ready for his passes. It's difficult trying make passes to guys that aren't ready or don't believe their open. Clark and Ellis go struggle getting points when Cobb and Tc running show. When jenifer comes in game he's going make it so much easier for players to score with pinpoint passes.
 
You guys are taking way to much about jenifer and not enough about our best freshman (evans).
If I said Evans wouldn't be that open against D1 team so he'll have to put ball on floor I'll be trolling. We have special team. Stop putting players against each other to build your favorite up. Everybody like who they like. Me talking jenifer up is topic of month right now. Stay positive and just sit back riding my wave.
 
There's no doubt that freshmen can contribute and that it's highly possible we'll get more out of Jenifer than most expect. I think it's kind of ridiculous though for some to make these grand predictions of his success based on seeing him play in the scrimmage and an exhibition game.

Honestly, he's a 3 star recruit ranked 33rd at his position for a reason. I'm not saying recruiting rankings define a player's success because that's clearly not the case. But if it were that easy to tell this kid was a superstar based on seeing him play twice don't you think the guys who do it for a living would have him ranked much higher?? It's absolutely ludicrous to be talking about this kid breaking an all time assist record based off of what anyone has seen from him yet.

Jenifer looks good to me, I think he has a chance to be very good eventually. Let's hope he grows and develops into what everyone thinks he can be, but let's also not set such a high bar that he isn't able to reach it. I can already see the same people putting all this hype on him coming back midway through the season and declaring him a bust because he's not lighting the world on fire.
He played at almost every major summer tournament. He has maximum exposure. Being even invited to some of camps he's attended at his size is miracle within itself. Go look at top 50 freshman in country(high school) you can't find 5 under 5'10.
 
I think we have grown so accustomed to freshman taking years to develop, that we may be going over the top looking for a flaw. A "Don't believe your lying eyes" kind of thing. But freshman have made a big impact in the sport for years now, and this freshman class of ours just looks different. We've talked a lot about Mick changing his philosophy a bit in recruiting...well this is what that looks like. No disrespect to guys like Guyn and Sanders, but Jenifer and Evans are not them. They are already on a another level compared to them.

If it weren't for comments from Mick that I heard or comments from Chad regarding the issue of potential turnover issues with Jenifer I wouldn't have any reason to think he MAY have to adjust to the speed of D1 because in one scrimmage and one exhibition he passes MY eye test.

However, these are people that have seen him play more than just a scrimmage and exhibition so that is why I would like to see him play more and against better competition. If he keeps putting up 4:1 assist to turnover all year...this will be a SPECIAL year!
 
he knows what to do with ball in his hands. Now problem is going to are players ready for his passes. It's difficult trying make passes to guys that aren't ready or don't believe their open. Clark and Ellis go struggle getting points when Cobb and Tc running show. When jenifer comes in game he's going make it so much easier for players to score with pinpoint passes.

The perfect example was in the last seconds before halftime the other night. Caupain had the ball and stood at the top of the key until 6 seconds remained. He then made a little move to his right and threw a pass to KJ in the corner who bricked the shot and because Caupain had waited so long, there was zero opportunity for a put-back because the clock ran out. That was just atrocious clock management and resulted in our typical rushed three as the clock ran out, with no points coming out of it. I would have loved to see what Jenifer could have created in the same situation.
 
There's no doubt that freshmen can contribute and that it's highly possible we'll get more out of Jenifer than most expect. I think it's kind of ridiculous though for some to make these grand predictions of his success based on seeing him play in the scrimmage and an exhibition game.

Honestly, he's a 3 star recruit ranked 33rd at his position for a reason. I'm not saying recruiting rankings define a player's success because that's clearly not the case. But if it were that easy to tell this kid was a superstar based on seeing him play twice don't you think the guys who do it for a living would have him ranked much higher?? It's absolutely ludicrous to be talking about this kid breaking an all time assist record based off of what anyone has seen from him yet.

Jenifer looks good to me, I think he has a chance to be very good eventually. Let's hope he grows and develops into what everyone thinks he can be, but let's also not set such a high bar that he isn't able to reach it. I can already see the same people putting all this hype on him coming back midway through the season and declaring him a bust because he's not lighting the world on fire.

I'm not going to have to worry about him reaching the bar that I've set. Mark it down.

Also, there are actually many people in every profession, who do that profession for a living, and suck at it. That is the same with the people who watch basketball players for a living. I could make my living in the financial world and be able to accurately evaluate basketball talent in one or two viewings on the side, just like a person who spends his full time watching basketball players could be a shrewd financial guru on the side.

I plan to continue to "ridiculously" set the bar high and predict success for Jenifer. If you want to set the bar low so you can be able to call him a huge success if he becomes mediocre, that is your prerogative. I prefer being overly excited about our players. It's much more fun!
 
Jenifer was very highly rated as a youngster. He was a phenom by the time he was 12-13 years old. If you listen to his interviews when he was a freshman in HS he was being recruited by Syracuse, Louisville,etc. His problem was he stopped growing and sort of "peaked" too early. Eventually those schools recruited over him.
 
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