Houston: Round 2: The Battle for Everything

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cincyguy13 said:
So we are already calling brannen a failure not even a year in? This is what we are doing?
Click to expand...

Losing to Colgate, Bowling Green, UCF, Tulane, and having to play ECU, Illinois State, and Valparaiso to the wire is not exactly an encouraging sign. Not having "his guys" or "enough time to implement his system" doesn't explain losing/almost losing that many games to teams that shitty. A Cronin team might drop a game like that every year or two; this team could just as easily have dropped 7 of them.

I've watched every game this year, as I have every year for the better part of three decades, and it's been more or less the same thing since November: this team doesn't hustle. They miss way too many defensive assignments. They don't fight for loose balls. They don't box out or crash the glass. They give up way too many offensive rebounds to the other team. They cough up the ball an unfathomable amount, because they're not paying attention to what they're doing. Most if not all of these things boil down to discipline, effort and toughness. Huggins' teams had those things; Cronin's teams had them; this one simply doesn't.
 
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UCats329 said:
Losing to Colgate, Bowling Green, UCF, Tulane, and having to play ECU, Illinois State, and Valparaiso to the wire is not exactly an encouraging sign. Not having "his guys" or "enough time to implement his system" doesn't explain losing/almost losing that many games to teams that shitty. A Cronin team might drop a game like that every year or two; this team could just as easily have dropped 7 of them.

I've watched every game this year, as I have every year for the better part of three decades, and it's been more or less the same thing since November: this team doesn't hustle. They miss way too many defensive assignments. They don't fight for loose balls. They don't box out or crash the glass. They give up way too many offensive rebounds to the other team. They cough up the ball an unfathomable amount, because they're not paying attention to what they're doing. Most if not all of these things boil down to discipline, effort and toughness. Huggins' teams had those things; Cronin's teams had them; this one simply doesn't.
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I don’t even disagree with some of what your saying. There are issues. I’m just not willing to throw in the towel yet. I’m not sure how much of it the players aren’t good enough. If you want to blame brannen for brooks leaving, I’ll never understand it, but whatever. I think Vogt and diarra are trying. I don’t think effort is an issue with them. They just aren’t good enough. Tre is giving effort. To me, it seems like, we are as good as jarron is. We knew that last year, we knew that before this year and nothing has change. I love jarron but when he isn’t playing well, the team isn’t good. Of course there are other issues, but it starts and stops with our best player. If he isn’t good, we are an below average team. There’s no getting around that.

We have only looked good for about a month of the season, the other 3 haven’t been good. When do we say, we just aren’t good? Maybe that’s a coaching issue, maybe it’s having to fill the roster in June. I think it’s a little of both.
 
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Houston offensive rebound % yesterday 48.9

Houston offensive rebound in our gym last year 48.6



If you guys hate all the offensive rebounds we gave up this year, how on earth did you live the previous 9 years.

OR% for opponents

2020 - 28.0
2019 - 29.3
2018 - 28.2
2017 - 29.4
2016 - 30.6
2015 - 32.3
2014 - 32.3
2013 - 29.8
2012 - 34.4
2011 - 31.0


The numbers in college basketball have changed over time. The 31.0 in 2011 was 110th best in the country. 28.0 this year is 169. But out of the previous 10 years this team would rank 4th in preventing offensive rebounds if you went by their ranking.
 
Team clearly hit its stride when Cumberland was healthy this year. Jan 1 - Feb 6 Jarron was playing great and team was playing great. Jarron hurt his foot on Feb 6 vs Wichita St and its been downhill from there. Jarron has put up an ORTG below 100 in 5 of 6 games since. Below 91 in 4 of those.


In the 10 games before Jan 1 when Cumberland was clearly favoring the foot he put up an ORTG under 100 in 9 of 10 games.


From Jan 1 to Feb 6 when he didn't show any signs of the foot bothering him he put up an ORTG over 100 in 8 of 10 games going over 120 in 5 of them.


Injured Jarron 16 games ORTG over 100 twice.


Healthy Jarron 10 games ORTG over 100 8 times.


Start of season to December 31

73 on barttorvik 99 offense 67 defense


Jan 1 - Feb 6

17 on barttorvik 45 offense 16 defense


Feb 6 to now

64 on barttorvik 67 offense 115 defense



Healthy Jarron vs injured Jarron were 2 very different teams. When you put all the eggs in 1 basket, it can be tough.
 
cincrulz11 said:
Team clearly hit its stride when Cumberland was healthy this year. Jan 1 - Feb 6 Jarron was playing great and team was playing great. Jarron hurt his foot on Feb 6 vs Wichita St and its been downhill from there. Jarron has put up an ORTG below 100 in 5 of 6 games since. Below 91 in 4 of those.


In the 10 games before Jan 1 when Cumberland was clearly favoring the foot he put up an ORTG under 100 in 9 of 10 games.


From Jan 1 to Feb 6 when he didn't show any signs of the foot bothering him he put up an ORTG over 100 in 8 of 10 games going over 120 in 5 of them.


Injured Jarron 16 games ORTG over 100 twice.


Healthy Jarron 10 games ORTG over 100 8 times.


Start of season to December 31

73 on barttorvik 99 offense 67 defense


Jan 1 - Feb 6

17 on barttorvik 45 offense 16 defense


Feb 6 to now

64 on barttorvik 67 offense 115 defense



Healthy Jarron vs injured Jarron were 2 very different teams. When you put all the eggs in 1 basket, it can be tough.
Click to expand...
You mean the system didn’t change in February? People are telling me we all the sudden didn’t run enough screens for jarron.
 
cincyguy13 said:
You mean the system didn’t change in February? People are telling me we all the sudden didn’t run enough screens for jarron.
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people are saying stupid crap cause it fits into what they want their argument to be.


they know jarron is injured. they'll say "but he said he's not".


how many healthy guys do you see limping around, asking to get pulled out, staying on the ground grimacing in pain. none? correct, its none.
 
cincyguy13 said:
You mean the system didn’t change in February? People are telling me we all the sudden didn’t run enough screens for jarron.
Click to expand...

also if people don't want to be into all them there fancy numbers like ORTG.


Jarron made shots in the 16 injured games - 55 (3's and 2's)


Jarrod made shots in the 10 healthy games - 56 (3's and 2's)


16 injured games - 31-86 36% from 2. 24-89 26.9% from 3.


10 healthy games - 37-65 56.9% from 2. 19-49 38.7% from 3.


Since he re-injured it vs Wichita St

6 games - 7-30 23.3% from 2. 9-34 26.4% from 3.
 
cincrulz11 said:
also if people don't want to be into all them there fancy numbers like ORTG.


Jarron made shots in the 16 injured games - 55 (3's and 2's)


Jarrod made shots in the 10 healthy games - 56 (3's and 2's)


16 injured games - 31-86 36% from 2. 24-89 26.9% from 3.


10 healthy games - 37-65 56.9% from 2. 19-49 38.7% from 3.


Since he re-injured it vs Wichita St

6 games - 7-30 23.3% from 2. 9-34 26.4% from 3.
Click to expand...

It’s the system
 
cincrulz11 said:
also if people don't want to be into all them there fancy numbers like ORTG.


Jarron made shots in the 16 injured games - 55 (3's and 2's)


Jarrod made shots in the 10 healthy games - 56 (3's and 2's)


16 injured games - 31-86 36% from 2. 24-89 26.9% from 3.


10 healthy games - 37-65 56.9% from 2. 19-49 38.7% from 3.


Since he re-injured it vs Wichita St

6 games - 7-30 23.3% from 2. 9-34 26.4% from 3.
Click to expand...

Hey! People don’t like when you throw data driven facts out around here.
 
Bcatfollower said:
Hey! People don’t like when you throw data driven facts out around here.
Click to expand...

Yep, someone posted how cronin faired against ranked opponents yesterday, literally not one cronin defender commented on it. Acted like it wasn’t even there. Keep plowing along with their agenda
 
cincyguy13 said:
Yep, someone posted how cronin faired against ranked opponents yesterday, literally not one cronin defender commented on it. Acted like it wasn’t even there. Keep plowing along with their agenda
Click to expand...

Regardless of how Cronin fared here as a coach, Brannen needs to win his next 4 games or it looks like it may be quite the long offseason for select posters on this board.
 
cincrulz11 said:
Team clearly hit its stride when Cumberland was healthy this year. Jan 1 - Feb 6 Jarron was playing great and team was playing great. Jarron hurt his foot on Feb 6 vs Wichita St and its been downhill from there. Jarron has put up an ORTG below 100 in 5 of 6 games since. Below 91 in 4 of those.


In the 10 games before Jan 1 when Cumberland was clearly favoring the foot he put up an ORTG under 100 in 9 of 10 games.


From Jan 1 to Feb 6 when he didn't show any signs of the foot bothering him he put up an ORTG over 100 in 8 of 10 games going over 120 in 5 of them.


Injured Jarron 16 games ORTG over 100 twice.


Healthy Jarron 10 games ORTG over 100 8 times.


Start of season to December 31

73 on barttorvik 99 offense 67 defense


Jan 1 - Feb 6

17 on barttorvik 45 offense 16 defense


Feb 6 to now

64 on barttorvik 67 offense 115 defense



Healthy Jarron vs injured Jarron were 2 very different teams. When you put all the eggs in 1 basket, it can be tough.
Click to expand...

Weird how this went silent when we had actual stats. This and the cronin stats against ranked opponents. Just odd how everyone love stats, metrics, etc, until they don’t support their argument
 
cincrulz11 said:
Team clearly hit its stride when Cumberland was healthy this year. Jan 1 - Feb 6 Jarron was playing great and team was playing great. Jarron hurt his foot on Feb 6 vs Wichita St and its been downhill from there. Jarron has put up an ORTG below 100 in 5 of 6 games since. Below 91 in 4 of those.


In the 10 games before Jan 1 when Cumberland was clearly favoring the foot he put up an ORTG under 100 in 9 of 10 games.


From Jan 1 to Feb 6 when he didn't show any signs of the foot bothering him he put up an ORTG over 100 in 8 of 10 games going over 120 in 5 of them.


Injured Jarron 16 games ORTG over 100 twice.


Healthy Jarron 10 games ORTG over 100 8 times.


Start of season to December 31

73 on barttorvik 99 offense 67 defense


Jan 1 - Feb 6

17 on barttorvik 45 offense 16 defense


Feb 6 to now

64 on barttorvik 67 offense 115 defense



Healthy Jarron vs injured Jarron were 2 very different teams. When you put all the eggs in 1 basket, it can be tough.
Click to expand...

The drop from 45 to 67 offense isn't that big. The much more concerning thing is the drop from 16 defense to 115 defense.

Jarron is injured, I don't deny that. But regardless of his injury, we should still be out their playing hard, playing good defense, playing tough and rebounding. If we were playing good/great defense and poor offense, I wouldn't be nearly as concerned.

The lack of effort, lack of intensity and poor decision making are my concern.

We saw an engaged team for about a month and saw how good we can be. But for the rest of the year, we have seemed out of it more often then not.
 
skyblade said:
The drop from 45 to 67 offense isn't that big. The much more concerning thing is the drop from 16 defense to 115 defense.

Jarron is injured, I don't deny that. But regardless of his injury, we should still be out their playing hard, playing good defense, playing tough and rebounding. If we were playing good/great defense and poor offense, I wouldn't be nearly as concerned.

The lack of effort, lack of intensity and poor decision making are my concern.

We saw an engaged team for about a month and saw how good we can be. But for the rest of the year, we have seemed out of it more often then not.
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We were engaged when jarron looked good. Don’t you think that’s odd, or is that a coincidence? If we are playing 4 on 5 defensively, that matters.

To support you point, yes some of the coaching is questionable. Had a week to preach boxing out and then get abused on the glass. Thats unacceptable. I don’t think brannen didn’t preach rebounding all week. If he didn’t, he’s the worst coach of all time.
 
cincrulz11 said:
Houston offensive rebound % yesterday 48.9

Houston offensive rebound in our gym last year 48.6



If you guys hate all the offensive rebounds we gave up this year, how on earth did you live the previous 9 years.

OR% for opponents

2020 - 28.0
2019 - 29.3
2018 - 28.2
2017 - 29.4
2016 - 30.6
2015 - 32.3
2014 - 32.3
2013 - 29.8
2012 - 34.4
2011 - 31.0


The numbers in college basketball have changed over time. The 31.0 in 2011 was 110th best in the country. 28.0 this year is 169. But out of the previous 10 years this team would rank 4th in preventing offensive rebounds if you went by their ranking.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone thought Cronin was perfect. Playing zone constantly meant we were going to give up a relatively high percent of offensive rebounds. Now we play man-to-man and are about the same.

I wouldn't even be that concerned about the offensive rebounding, if it weren't a symptom of a bigger problem that we've been seeing for the last month or so. Lack of effort, focus and intensity.

That's the problem. We've rarely seen a Cronin/Huggins coached looked as uninterested in playing hard in a single game as our current team has looked for the last month.
 
cincyguy13 said:
We were engaged when jarron looked good. Don’t you think that’s odd, or is that a coincidence? If we are playing 4 on 5 defensively, that matters.

To support you point, yes some of the coaching is questionable. Had a week to preach boxing out and then get abused on the glass. Thats unacceptable. I don’t think brannen didn’t preach rebounding all week. If he didn’t, he’s the worst coach of all time.
Click to expand...

Okay, then sit Jarron until he is healthy. I don't think most fans would have a problem with that.

From what I see though, Jarron isn't the only - or even the biggest - problem on defense.

If Jarron is really dragging the whole teams effort levels down that much, he shouldn't be playing. The coach can't allow one guy to effect how the whole team plays.
 

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