Houston: Round 2: The Battle for Everything

[cincrulz11]

To support you point, yes some of the coaching is questionable. Had a week to preach boxing out and then get abused on the glass. Thats unacceptable. I don’t think brannen didn’t preach rebounding all week. If he didn’t, he’s the worst coach of all time.

This is why I didn't like we weren't able to practice much last week. Gotta be mentally and physically ready to play a game like that, but when you can't run practice cause everybody is nursing injuries, you're gonna get smacked in the face vs a team like houston.


houston always beats our ass on the glass. its been happening for years.

 

[cincrulz11]

Okay, then sit Jarron until he is healthy. I don't think most fans would have a problem with that.

From what I see though, Jarron isn't the only - or even the biggest - problem on defense.

If Jarron is really dragging the whole teams effort levels down that much, he shouldn't be playing. The coach can't allow one guy to effect how the whole team plays.

the team was built to have 1 guy effect how the whole team plays. it was legit built to have 1 guy do everything.


that guy was able to do it last year because he wasn't injured. he was not able to do it this year.

 

[cincyguy13]

Okay, then sit Jarron until he is healthy. I don't think most fans would have a problem with that.

From what I see though, Jarron isn't the only - or even the biggest - problem on defense.

If Jarron is really dragging the whole teams effort levels down that much, he shouldn't be playing. The coach can't allow one guy to effect how the whole team plays.

Who is the problems? As far as effort? Because that’s what your telling me the problem is. Curious

 

[cincyguy13]

the team was built to have 1 guy effect how the whole team plays. it was legit built to have 1 guy do everything.


that guy was able to do it last year because he wasn't injured. he was not able to do it this year.

This!
If SK got hurt during his senior year, it would have looked a whole lot worse than this. Our defense would have been better but our offense would have been all time bad. Still losing, however you want to look and it

 

[justinhub2003]

Weird how this went silent when we had actual stats. This and the cronin stats against ranked opponents. Just odd how everyone love stats, metrics, etc, until they don’t support their argument

It’s weird how Jarron was healthy enough to carrry us to victory against WSU but is an excuse every time we lose.

Jarron also moved to point guard during the success. Could it be that teams just figured out how to stop it ?

And we didn’t adjust.

Teams figured out how to load up on Jarron and stop not only his scoring but play making. They also figured out Chris Vogt

It’s no accident that Tre Scott has been our best player, because teams are willing to make him beat us, not Jarron or Vogt.

So what’s Keith Williams excuse ? He hurt to? Is Chris Vogt hurry too ?


Y’all got an insane amount excuses and it’s strange considering you accepted zero excuses for mick Cronin

 

[cincyguy13]

Okay, then sit Jarron until he is healthy. I don't think most fans would have a problem with that.

From what I see though, Jarron isn't the only - or even the biggest - problem on defense.

If Jarron is really dragging the whole teams effort levels down that much, he shouldn't be playing. The coach can't allow one guy to effect how the whole team plays.

Also a 50% jarron is better than anyone brannen can put in.

 

[cincyguy13]

It’s weird how Jarron was healthy enough to carrry us to victory against WSU but is an excuse every time we lose.

Jarron also moved to point guard during the success. Could it be that teams just figured out how to stop it ?

And we didn’t adjust.

Teams figured out how to load up on Jarron and stop not only his scoring but play making. They also figured out Chris Vogt

It’s no accident that Tre Scott has been our best player, because teams are willing to make him beat us, not Jarron or Vogt.

So what’s Keith Williams excuse ? He hurt to? Is Chris Vogt hurry too ?


Y’all got an insane amount excuses and it’s strange considering you accepted zero excuses for mick Cronin

So you think he’s heathy and teams just figured out how to guard him in his 4th year of playing? You think teams didn’t load up on him last year? You have to admit you were all for him being hurt until you didn’t want to give brannen any excuse. I guess you’re right, teams finally figured jarron out and he isn’t good enough to adjust

 

[cincrulz11]

It’s weird how Jarron was healthy enough to carrry us to victory against WSU but is an excuse every time we lose.

Jarron also moved to point guard during the success. Could it be that teams just figured out how to stop it ?

And we didn’t adjust.

Teams figured out how to load up on Jarron and stop not only his scoring but play making. They also figured out Chris Vogt

It’s no accident that Tre Scott has been our best player, because teams are willing to make him beat us, not Jarron or Vogt.

So what’s Keith Williams excuse ? He hurt to? Is Chris Vogt hurry too ?


Y’all got an insane amount excuses and it’s strange considering you accepted zero excuses for mick Cronin

Interesting. Do you think in 3 years if our team is built around 1 guy, and he gets hurt, that people won't blame brannen for building a team around 1 guy?


do you think if once brannen builds his own team and they aren't in the top 30 that people will say its ok?


was it ok when cronins teams from 2013-2016 were ranked an average of 35.5 on kenpom? if that was ok, surely 44 in brannens first season is ok too.


was it ok then because tournament criteria was different? was it ok for those teams to go a combined 1-5 in their tournament games?


is being 44 on kenpom and losing in the first round a hugely successful season while finishing 44 and first 4 out a horrendous one?

 

[cincyguy13]

If jarron is hurt that changing the whole season. Not one coach would be expected to take this team to the tourney without a healthy jarron. Not one.

But keep worshipping cronin in the hope that he will see this and return. Keep kicking and screaming every time someone calls you out on your hypocrisy.

Or admit, yeah, a hurt jarron would change things. But there are also things brannen can change about his coaching. That’s the correct way to criticize. It’s not going completely one way, where people can’t even take you serious

 

[Alum2013]

It’s weird how Jarron was healthy enough to carrry us to victory against WSU but is an excuse every time we lose.

Jarron also moved to point guard during the success. Could it be that teams just figured out how to stop it ?

And we didn’t adjust.

Teams figured out how to load up on Jarron and stop not only his scoring but play making. They also figured out Chris Vogt

It’s no accident that Tre Scott has been our best player, because teams are willing to make him beat us, not Jarron or Vogt.

So what’s Keith Williams excuse ? He hurt to? Is Chris Vogt hurry too ?


Y’all got an insane amount excuses and it’s strange considering you accepted zero excuses for mick Cronin

So you don't think it's possible he got hurt or his injury started effecting him more post the WSU game? I mean the decease in his play has been very dramatic. That's not because a team or two figures it out. He's been bad against everyone we're playing since that time.

 

[cincyguy13]

So you don't think it's possible he got hurt or his injury started effecting him more post the WSU game? I mean the decease in his play has been very dramatic. That's not because a team or two figures it out. He's been bad against everyone we're playing since that time.

That’s exactly when they figured him out. In his 4th year, halfway through the year. The exact moment he had no more answers

 

[cincrulz11]

So you don't think it's possible he got hurt or his injury started effecting him more post the WSU game? I mean the decease in his play has been very dramatic. That's not because a team or two figures it out. He's been bad against everyone we're playing since that time.

defenses figured him out in games where he limped around. i wonder why that was.

probably brannens bad coaching.

 

[skyblade]

Interesting. Do you think in 3 years if our team is built around 1 guy, and he gets hurt, that people won't blame brannen for building a team around 1 guy?


do you think if once brannen builds his own team and they aren't in the top 30 that people will say its ok?


was it ok when cronins teams from 2013-2016 were ranked an average of 35.5 on kenpom? if that was ok, surely 44 in brannens first season is ok too.


was it ok then because tournament criteria was different? was it ok for those teams to go a combined 1-5 in their tournament games?


is being 44 on kenpom and losing in the first round a hugely successful season while finishing 44 and first 4 out a horrendous one?

Again, Brannen came to a projected top 15 team. It's not Cronin's fault Brannen failed to keep the team together, failed to convince Curtis to stay committed, forced out Hardnett and failed to recruit guys who could play at this level. Cronin encouraged guys to stay, but Brannen couldn't convince them to (or didn't want them to).

Yes, the late start hurt Brannen. But he whiffed on quite a few guys. McNeal and Sorolla are/were just bad. Vogt and Jaevin can't play defense or rebound.

 

[cincyguy13]

Again, Brannen came to a projected top 15 team. It's not Cronin's fault Brannen failed to keep the team together, failed to convince Curtis to stay committed, forced out Hardnett and failed to recruit guys who could play at this level. Cronin encouraged guys to stay, but Brannen couldn't convince them to (or didn't want them to).

Yes, the late start hurt Brannen. But he whiffed on quite a few guys. McNeal and Sorolla are/were just bad. Vogt and Jaevin can't play defense or rebound.

Such a dumb argument that continues. We don’t know what happened. We don’t know if he wanted them to stay, or even if they wanted to stay. That seems like an important part of the story that we will never know, but keep saying it.

Once everyone did leave, which I guess is his fault, even though, half the players are doing virtually nothing, I’d love to hear about the better options that were available in June.

Keep longing for the guys that haven’t done anything this year.

 

[cincrulz11]

Again, Brannen came to a projected top 15 team. It's not Cronin's fault Brannen failed to keep the team together, failed to convince Curtis to stay committed, forced out Hardnett and failed to recruit guys who could play at this level. Cronin encouraged guys to stay, but Brannen couldn't convince them to (or didn't want them to).

Yes, the late start hurt Brannen. But he whiffed on quite a few guys. McNeal and Sorolla are/were just bad. Vogt and Jaevin can't play defense or rebound.

I mean we're talking about super early preseason polls. now


UNC was a top 6 team in them.



Thats the standard I guess.

Cronin failed to recruit guys to play at this level after Jarrons class. Moore? No. Hardnett? No. Logan? No. Fredericks? No. Diarra? No (using your standards).

Curtis couldn't even get PT on a 7-22 Nebraska team so he left there too.


I know you don't really like living in reality (Diarra nba prospect and better than Vogt, Keith gonna leave early for nba and so on) but you really should try it.

 

[cincyguy13]

I mean we're talking about super early preseason polls. now


UNC was a top 6 team in them.



Thats the standard I guess.

Cronin failed to recruit guys to play at this level after Jarrons class. Moore? No. Hardnett? No. Logan? No. Fredericks? No. Diarra? No (using your standards).

Curtis couldn't even get PT on a 7-22 Nebraska team so he left there too.


I know you don't really like living in reality (Diarra nba prospect and better than Vogt, Keith gonna leave early for nba and so on) but you really should try it.

He’s better at evaluating players than everyone else

 

[skyblade]

I mean we're talking about super early preseason polls. now


UNC was a top 6 team in them.



Thats the standard I guess.

Cronin failed to recruit guys to play at this level after Jarrons class. Moore? No. Hardnett? No. Logan? No. Fredericks? No. Diarra? No (using your standards).

Curtis couldn't even get PT on a 7-22 Nebraska team so he left there too.


I know you don't really like living in reality (Diarra nba prospect and better than Vogt, Keith gonna leave early for nba and so on) but you really should try it.

You are judging guys way to early, which is no surprise since you didn't want them when they were recruited. Let's see how they play 1/2 years from now. Those guys shouldn't be expected to be starters in their first year after transferring. But I can say that quite a few of them would be valuable if they were still here.

LoJo - a guard who can defend and rebound, he averaged more rebounds in conference per 40 minutes than Vogt does this year. Frederick's rebounds/40 minutes was higher than everyone on this years team but Scott and Diarra. Nsoseme was excellent at rebounding and a solid defender as well.

Brannen replaced them with 3 guys (Vogt, Sorolla, Jaevin) who can't defend or rebound and one guy (McNeal) who makes LoJo look like a great offensive guard.

Despite Brannen's focus on getting more offensive players, our offense is ranked 27 points lower than last years in kenpom and is our worst ranked kenpom offense since 2016.

Vogt has a worse ORTG and DRTG than Diarra in conference. Vogt is just not a good player. At least Diarra has potential to become great. Vogt has potential to go down as the worst starting center at UC in the last 20 years.

 

[skyblade]

So you think he’s heathy and teams just figured out how to guard him in his 4th year of playing? You think teams didn’t load up on him last year? You have to admit you were all for him being hurt until you didn’t want to give brannen any excuse. I guess you’re right, teams finally figured jarron out and he isn’t good enough to adjust

Do you remember that Jarron was injured last year as well? He had the hip issue and his foot injury that is still lingering.

Cronin found ways to maximize his rest. We'd run the offensive sets where Jarron would stand at half court and we'd play 4v4. Had somebody else bring the ball up. The zone helped reduces how much Jarron needed to run on defense.

And all the other players still played defense and rebounded at a high level.

 

[cincyalum2014]

lets take a look at the players who left on there own or were forced out.....

Nysier Brooks - sitting all year, would have loved to have him this year, we really miss his presence in the paint as a shot blocker. His transfer to Miami is still a head scratcher, but he knows what best for himself so I wish him the best next year. Miami is a very average ACC team.

Lojo - Don't think he was "forced out" at all, he had some family issues and may have transferred even if Cronin stayed. Avereged 6.9 mpg last year and is only averages 7.3 mpg with St Marys. He is hardly not replicable and his stats prove that.

Laquill Hardnett- I would take a top 50 recruit in Zach Harvey over Harnett any day, a lot of you were mad at how Mick didn't go after top ranked guys and then Brannen has a chance to get one and he did and then all of a sudden people are mad we signed Zach and let Laquill leave. No offense to Laquill but he is hardly lighting it up in the MAC with Buffalo. His best offer of out high school was UC and it wasn't even close. Theres a reason for that.

Trevor Moore- the so called best "shooter" Mick ever recruited. He was a great hype guy and that's about it. He was brought here to shoot and he shot 26%and was an average defender.

Rashawn Fredericks- Was most likey transferring anyway even if Cronin stayed, you watch him play last year, I will leave it at that.

Nsoseme- A bull in a china shop, played with a lot of energy and good rebounder which we need right now, no offense to speak of. I wouldn't have minded if he stayed due to Vogt's inability to rebound and at times defend.

And Finally Mr Ohio Basketball himself, Samari Curtis- Now on his 4th school in a year. Didn't play for a 7-22 Nebraska team and now is at Evansville who hasn't won a game in 2020. Who the hell knows what he would of done here, but I wish him the best.

Also don't lump Jaevin in as a Brannen guy, most of you were salivating for him when Mick was the coach... Sorolla, McNeal were terrible late pick ups but the 3 freshman look promising with an exciting class coming in.

 

[cincrulz11]

Vogt has potential to go down as the worst starting center at UC in the last 20 years.