"I was wrong about Mick Cronin..."

[anbuc88]

I agree. No way Yancy goes pro after this year unless he averages 20 and 10 in the Tourney and leads this team to a National Championship. Even then, I think he would come back.

As for SK, I think BA1 posed the question about him being content or would he continue to improve. I can tell you from everything I have read, he is a gym rat. You can already see his defense improve from the beginning of the year until now. I expect SK to be our leading scorer next year unless Yancy has a Kenyon Martin senior year which is not out of the question.

First, isn't it great to talk about next season, and still be excited about what is left during the rest of this season.

I think the Cats will be better next year than this yaer. The 5 core players previously mentioned along with Parker and Gaines is a great foundation. Cronin has set us up to continue the winning ways year after year. The following year Dixon and Gates leave, but Cash, Killa, Parker and JJ remain. Add in maturity of the of next years freshman, a JC big man who will then be a senior, and that team will be a bear. What has been sorely missing in the past is now in place. A returning core of players each year who can pass on the 'Bearcat way' and what it takes to be successful in the BE. We lost this when the program was torn down, and this is now firmly in place.

As an aside, I called into the WLW coaches show last week and asked Cronin if the toughest part of rebuilding was not having players who had been through the BE grind to pass on mental toughness required to be successful. He said that this cannot be understated and that it will be interesting to see what happens at SJU next year, as 10 seniors leave. I think having a core of players who can pass on how hard you have to work in the offseason to improve their game will allow us to become a mainstay in the upper echelon of the BE for years to come.

 

[bearcat jeff]

Don't underestimate the defensive aspect. Rarely are freshmen sold out to play defense and team concepts on the defensive end don't always come fast.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

Don't underestimate the defensive aspect. Rarely are freshmen sold out to play defense and team concepts on the defensive end don't always come fast.

I agree, that's why I think Jackson and Kilpatrick's improvement will be more important than anything, especially on the defensive end. If they come out and can play solid team defense we should be alright. And maybe Parker (if he stays) can be our Larry Davis off the bench.

 

[ohioubearcat]

Two thoughts:

1.) I think we will be an improved team offensively next year but will really feel Bishop's departure. He is such a weapon on the defensive end....that will be hard to replace.

2.) I really hope Yancy stays and puts together a complete season for scouts to drool over. Unfortunately I'm not sure this will happen...it's been said that his struggles this season have been mostly because of things off the bball court. Sometimes these kids are pressured to support their entire family and do not always make the choice best suited for themselves. With that said...it seems like Mick and Yancy's father have been a great influence on him and hopefully that will continue onto next season!

GO CATS

 

[ready2go]

If you can show results, it solves everything

Up until this season, all of the doubters or disgruntled fans including myself were basing our frustration off of facts. The end of each season was abysmal; losing streaks, scoreless droubts, and flat out bad losses.

I was tired of hearing the excuses from Mick and other fans. Especially when those same teams had shown they can compete. In 08-09 they beat GTown twice, ND and WV. Only to crumble at the end. Last year they started out the season in Maui and left ranked. Only to crumble at the end vs poor to mediocre teams at best.

Up until this year I also saw very little player developement. I mean very little...But this year I feel Dixon is much improved, Cash is coming on strong and Biggie Freaking McClain has been used sparingly but I honselty feel he is one of the most improved

Now Mick has it figured out and these guys are playing basketball. Keep it going in the Tourny so I can watch them during work

 

[psax889906]

If you can show results, it solves everything

Up until this season, all of the doubters or disgruntled fans including myself were basing our frustration off of facts. The end of each season was abysmal; losing streaks, scoreless droubts, and flat out bad losses.

I was tired of hearing the excuses from Mick and other fans. Especially when those same teams had shown they can compete. In 08-09 they beat GTown twice, ND and WV. Only to crumble at the end. Last year they started out the season in Maui and left ranked. Only to crumble at the end vs poor to mediocre teams at best.

Up until this year I also saw very little player developement. I mean very little...But this year I feel Dixon is much improved, Cash is coming on strong and Biggie Freaking McClain has been used sparingly but I honselty feel he is one of the most improved

Now Mick has it figured out and these guys are playing basketball. Keep it going in the Tourny so I can watch them during work

You act as though Mick Cronin suddenly learned how to coach this season. Now that's not to say that he hasn't improved in his time here. I think most of us agree he has grown as a coach while in Clifton.

However, I have two issues with your argument:

1) You say the teams of the past had shown they could compete.

Ya Don't say? I just watched a 20+ loss South Florida team beat Villanova. Any team in this league can win one or two big games a year- and most of the time each team does.

Did you ever stop to consider the reason the teams of the past weren't able to finish down the stretch is because they'd never been there before?

Or maybe it was because they didn't have the depth necessary to sustain throughout the season?

Using big wins early in Mick's tenure as evidence as to why he wasn't getting the job done is suspect at best, imo.

2) Very little player development.

Lets see- he had to recruit a lot of JUCO's early on (and play Conner Barwin). Therefore, clearly there wasn't going to be time needed to invest in these players' games and watch them blossom. Mick was scraping the bottom of the barrel as it was.

This is year five. Until the 'Cats are bounced from this year's tournament Mick has still only seen ONE four year player start and finish his career at Cincinnati (Deonta Vaughn). Progress takes time.


Patience is a wonderful virtue and it's paying off for ALL of us as we speak.

Consider where this team might be this year if MANY had gotten their wish and Mick was canned at the end of last year...

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

You act as though Mick Cronin suddenly learned how to coach this season. Now that's not to say that he hasn't improved in his time here. I think most of us agree he has grown as a coach while in Clifton.

However, I have two issues with your argument:

1) You say the teams of the past had shown they could compete.

Ya Don't say? I just watched a 20+ loss South Florida team beat Villanova. Any team in this league can win one or two big games a year- and most of the time each team does.

Did you ever stop to consider the reason the teams of the past weren't able to finish down the stretch is because they'd never been there before?

Or maybe it was because they didn't have the depth necessary to sustain throughout the season?

Using big wins early in Mick's tenure as evidence as to why he wasn't getting the job done is suspect at best, imo.

2) Very little player development.

Lets see- he had to recruit a lot of JUCO's early on (and play Conner Barwin). Therefore, clearly there wasn't going to be time needed to invest in these players' games and watch them blossom. Mick was scraping the bottom of the barrel as it was.

This is year five. Until the 'Cats are bounced from this year's tournament Mick has still only seen ONE four year player start and finish his career at Cincinnati (Deonta Vaughn). Progress takes time.


Patience is a wonderful virtue and it's paying off for ALL of us as we speak.

Consider where this team might be this year if MANY had gotten their wish and Mick was canned at the end of last year...

Villanova's late season swoons the last two years would make even Mick Cronin blush

 

[Not Guilty]

Consider where this team might be this year if MANY had gotten their wish and Mick was canned at the end of last year...

Utter disaster when looking at the big picture.

 

[BearcatAlum1]

If you can show results, it solves everything

Up until this season, all of the doubters or disgruntled fans including myself were basing our frustration off of facts. The end of each season was abysmal; losing streaks, scoreless droubts, and flat out bad losses.

I was tired of hearing the excuses from Mick and other fans. Especially when those same teams had shown they can compete. In 08-09 they beat GTown twice, ND and WV. Only to crumble at the end. Last year they started out the season in Maui and left ranked. Only to crumble at the end vs poor to mediocre teams at best.

Up until this year I also saw very little player developement. I mean very little...But this year I feel Dixon is much improved, Cash is coming on strong and Biggie Freaking McClain has been used sparingly but I honselty feel he is one of the most improved

Now Mick has it figured out and these guys are playing basketball. Keep it going in the Tourny so I can watch them during work

Not a good post for many reasons. I'm tired tonight, but we were the underdogs according to Vegas regarding many of those "bad losses" and "late season collapes." Just saying..

 

[bearcat jeff]

Not a good post for many reasons. I'm tired tonight, but we were the underdogs according to Vegas regarding many of those "bad losses" and "late season collapes." Just saying..

There had been a pattern of late season collapses. A team that isn't accustomed to success has to learn to win. Eleven times last season they lost a game by 8 or less points. Many of those game by 5 or less.

The one thing many overlook is the fact that every tie to winning had been cut when Mick arrived. There wasn't any four year program guys here to show the underclassmen the way to win. There was no team identity left. These players knew nothing of 16 straight NCAA appearances except maybe a newspaper article. A winning culture had to be built and it had to be built under extreme circumstances.

This group of kids deserve so much credit. Even now they are shown no respect. They've scratch, fought and clawed their way to end the season ranked. This team has overcome so many obstacles, including a fan base that wouldn't support them.

It is entirely possible that UC could lose tonight and in the first round of the NCAA. If that happened I would be majorly disappointed as a fan but it wouldn't take away from how far they have come and the role they've played in Bearcat Basketball history. They've reconnected the present with the past and made tradition new again. These seniors have both made and left a mark. Justin Jackson, Cashmere Wright, Dion Dixon, Sean Kilpatrick and the rest of the returning Bearcats have a model to follow and all have played major roles in putting it together. That my friends bodes well for the future of UC Basketball.

 

[adrock]

Up until this season, all of the doubters or disgruntled fans including myself were basing our frustration off of facts. The end of each season was abysmal; losing streaks, scoreless droubts, and flat out bad losses.

Please understand that supporters including myself were also basing our relative optimism off of facts. Mick took over a program:

• For which no recruiting had been done for nearly 2 years. Both Huggins in his final year and AK in his interim year saw the writing on the wall, and did the bare minimum. The recruiting pipeline wasn't weak, it was destroyed.
• That brought back only Ronald Allen and Cedric McGowan. I appreciate the work these young men did for our University, but you do not build your team around Ronald Allen and Cedric McGowan.
• Less than a month before the late signing period. This is a serious problem for any basketball coach, nevermind one that came from Murray Freakin' State. He had no previous contact with high major recruits because those guys don't go Murray State no matter who the coach is. Because of this lack of contact, he not only lost out on '06 recruits, he was behind everybody else in the race for '07, '08, and probably '09 recruits.
• That was as close to losing scholarships due to APR scores as you can get. Mick not only had to recruit a full roster within the first 2-3 weeks of getting the job, he also had to make darn sure every one of those players would graduate. If not, bye bye scholarship.

After reflecting on the hurdles above, frankly I was just happy anyone took the job. The fact that the person that took the job had learned under 2 of the best coaches in the game right now and was a noted superstar in the world of recruiting was all gravy.

In spite of all the problems though, Mick managed to raise the APR scores out of the danger zone, build a solid recruiting pipeline to the NY/NJ area (BEast certainly helps this), and win 7 or 8 games in the best conference in college basketball in his 2nd, 3rd, and 4th years (including 6 wins over top 25 teams).

I agree with you that the losses were pretty much a never-ending chain of frustration, but the overall results were very encouraging considering the significant obstacles. The fact that many either couldn't comprehend or refused to acknowledge this pissed me off to no end.

Good thing about being a fan now though is that none of that matters now. Not only are we having a great season this year, reaching the NCAA tournament for the first time since Huggs, there is absolutely no reason to believe (save maybe the loss of Rashad) that we won't be better next year than we are this year!

As a side note, I believe those earlier teams you mentioned "crumbled" for 3 reasons:

• They were playing way over their heads to start with, which is unsustainable.
• Those teams had zero depth. An 18 game conference schedule against deep, athletic teams was just too much.
• They didn't know how to win in crunch time. Recall, nobody was there to show them the Bearcat way. This is something that has to be passed from player to player and can't come from the coach.

 

[adrock]

Wow that's a long post. My bad. Read it though, or you're banned.

 

[adhdfan]

I wanted Mick to succeed for a lot of reasons. First off, I went to LaSalle with him and I love to see people I know have success.I never hung around with him but I always liked him. He is a tireless worker. His phone is always ringing. I also remeber readind that the reason he was able to sign KSATT and Dermar Johnson is because of that work ethic and he sat in the students section at Rice highschool and for KSATT. How cool is that? Second, it takes a TON of work to build a program from hte death penalty..There was no World Wide Wes with a bag full of cash. He has had some great almosts just since he's been here. I saw him recruit Thabet since he is the talles human I have ever seen and I know he wanted to come here but he knew there would be no tournament. These type of kids will play for him because he lets them be who they are. Finally, you can see that this is his dream job and he knows who to be nice to to make things happen. Now let's shock the world and win the big east tournament, get a three seed and make the elite eight!!!!!!!!!

 

[ready2go]

You act as though Mick Cronin suddenly learned how to coach this season. Now that's not to say that he hasn't improved in his time here. I think most of us agree he has grown as a coach while in Clifton.

However, I have two issues with your argument:

1) You say the teams of the past had shown they could compete.

Ya Don't say? I just watched a 20+ loss South Florida team beat Villanova. Any team in this league can win one or two big games a year- and most of the time each team does.

Did you ever stop to consider the reason the teams of the past weren't able to finish down the stretch is because they'd never been there before?

Or maybe it was because they didn't have the depth necessary to sustain throughout the season?

Using big wins early in Mick's tenure as evidence as to why he wasn't getting the job done is suspect at best, imo.

2) Very little player development.

Lets see- he had to recruit a lot of JUCO's early on (and play Conner Barwin). Therefore, clearly there wasn't going to be time needed to invest in these players' games and watch them blossom. Mick was scraping the bottom of the barrel as it was.

This is year five. Until the 'Cats are bounced from this year's tournament Mick has still only seen ONE four year player start and finish his career at Cincinnati (Deonta Vaughn). Progress takes time.


Patience is a wonderful virtue and it's paying off for ALL of us as we speak.

Consider where this team might be this year if MANY had gotten their wish and Mick was canned at the end of last year...

In 08-09 they beat UAB, GTOWN, ND, GTOWN again, and WVU. Thats a lot of "on any given days". Only to lose the last 4 to Syracuse, USF, SETON HALL and freaking DEPAUL. Flat out Mick did not have his guys ready to play

Crumbling down the stretch against POOR TEAMS is a coaching issue. I can understand if they were in the spotlight vs UCONN SYRACUSE or top caliber teams deep into the BIG EAST Tourny, but they werent.

Up until midway this year player development has been minimal. Mike Williams, never took over a game for the hype he received coming in from MICK. DV, got worse as he progressed in the program. LS, a one and done guy should show improvement as the season grows. Many including Mick blamed him for the lack of points. Cash was no where near the pg we heard from blogs, ESPN experts and from MICK himself until the last half of this season. Same with Gates and Dixon. For that I will give Mick credit and as I said earlier, give me facts and I will back those

 

[JasonS]

In 08-09 they beat UAB, GTOWN, ND, GTOWN again, and WVU. Thats a lot of "on any given days". Only to lose the last 4 to Syracuse, USF, SETON HALL and freaking DEPAUL. Flat out Mick did not have his guys ready to play

Crumbling down the stretch against POOR TEAMS is a coaching issue. I can understand if they were in the spotlight vs UCONN SYRACUSE or top caliber teams deep into the BIG EAST Tourny, but they werent.

Up until midway this year player development has been minimal. Mike Williams, never took over a game for the hype he received coming in from MICK. DV, got worse as he progressed in the program. LS, a one and done guy should show improvement as the season grows. Many including Mick blamed him for the lack of points. Cash was no where near the pg we heard from blogs, ESPN experts and from MICK himself until the last half of this season. Same with Gates and Dixon. For that I will give Mick credit and as I said earlier, give me facts and I will back those

Can you say selective memory? Mike Williams blew out his achilles. He was never the same player again.

Show me how DV got worse? His points may have dipped but that is because Lance was there. In DV's first three years he was the only offensive option. He played over 5 minutes less per game his senior year than his junior year and the fewest minutes of his entire career. Shot the same 3PT%, nearly the same FG% as his junior year, had his best assist to turnover ratio as a senior, averaged the same number of steals as his junior season, had the highest FT% of his career and second highest point per shot ratio of his career (behind only his sophomore season).

LS showed quite a bit of improvement and was really good in the Big East Tourney. The ball tended to stop when it got to him. Not too surprising since he was always a 1 on 1 type of player. Oh year, he was Big East freshman of the year. But he wasn't any good and didn't improve at all. From gobearcats.com: "BIG EAST Conference Rookie of the Year ... ranked 28th in the BIG EAST in scoring (12.3 ppg) in overall games and was the top freshman scorer in the league ... finished campaign with 13 points and six rebounds vs. Dayton in the second round of the NIT (3/22) ... added 14 points in first-round NIT game vs. Weber State (3/17) ... notched seventh consecutive double-figure scoring effort with a game-high 19 points in the quarterfinals of the BIG EAST Championship against No. 7/6 West Virginia (3/11) ... poured in 13 points, including the game-winning free throw with less than two seconds to play, and grabbed nine rebounds in the first round of the conference tournament against Rutgers (3/9) ... scored a season-best 23 points and made a season-high 11 field goals in 17 attempts at No. 19/20 Georgetown (3/6) ... registered third consecutive double-figure scoring performance against No. 9/9 Villanova with 12 points (3/2) ... named BIG EAST Freshman of the Week for a third time on March 1 after averaging almost a double-double against DePaul (2/24) and West Virginia (2/27)

Cash was never a PG until he stepped on UC's campus. He was a two guard in HS. He blew out his knee before he ever played a game. It takes more than a year to come back from that kind of injury and be physically and mentally 100%. Add that in with trying to learn to play PG at the college/Big East level and I don't know why you would expect anything other than what you saw.

Your "facts" are not facts but your jaded interpretation of things while conveniently forgetting about actual facts.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Can you say selective memory? Mike Williams blew out his achilles. He was never the same player again.

Show me how DV got worse? His points may have dipped but that is because Lance was there. In DV's first three years he was the only offensive option. He played over 5 minutes less per game his senior year than his junior year and the fewest minutes of his entire career. Shot the same 3PT%, nearly the same FG% as his junior year, had his best assist to turnover ratio as a senior, averaged the same number of steals as his junior season, had the highest FT% of his career and second highest point per shot ratio of his career (behind only his sophomore season).

LS showed quite a bit of improvement and was really good in the Big East Tourney. The ball tended to stop when it got to him. Not too surprising since he was always a 1 on 1 type of player. Oh year, he was Big East freshman of the year. But he wasn't any good and didn't improve at all. From gobearcats.com: "BIG EAST Conference Rookie of the Year ... ranked 28th in the BIG EAST in scoring (12.3 ppg) in overall games and was the top freshman scorer in the league ... finished campaign with 13 points and six rebounds vs. Dayton in the second round of the NIT (3/22) ... added 14 points in first-round NIT game vs. Weber State (3/17) ... notched seventh consecutive double-figure scoring effort with a game-high 19 points in the quarterfinals of the BIG EAST Championship against No. 7/6 West Virginia (3/11) ... poured in 13 points, including the game-winning free throw with less than two seconds to play, and grabbed nine rebounds in the first round of the conference tournament against Rutgers (3/9) ... scored a season-best 23 points and made a season-high 11 field goals in 17 attempts at No. 19/20 Georgetown (3/6) ... registered third consecutive double-figure scoring performance against No. 9/9 Villanova with 12 points (3/2) ... named BIG EAST Freshman of the Week for a third time on March 1 after averaging almost a double-double against DePaul (2/24) and West Virginia (2/27)

Cash was never a PG until he stepped on UC's campus. He was a two guard in HS. He blew out his knee before he ever played a game. It takes more than a year to come back from that kind of injury and be physically and mentally 100%. Add that in with trying to learn to play PG at the college/Big East level and I don't know why you would expect anything other than what you saw.

Your "facts" are not facts but your jaded interpretation of things while conveniently forgetting about actual facts.

c'mon man, you know Cash played a TON of PG in high school. He was considered a scoring PG.

Mick had his hands tied based on the talent around him. However, no one will convince me that he didn't misuse Lance. He was the best talent I have ever seen come through UC and that says a lot. Doesn't mean I hate Mick because every coach will eventually come to a situation like that where they misuse one of their players. I would have loved to see Lance in a UC uniform this year. I think Mick would have figured out how to best use him.

I think DV improved but not nearly at the rate we expected him too. Also, regardless of having to play with Lance, I doubt many would say he surpassed our expectations of him. IMO he had a pretty disappointing senior year.

 

[bearcat jeff]

One of the biggest misconceptions in the Mick Cronin era is that DV got worse. His percentages were fairly consistent over 4 years. He took fewer shots his senior season.

 

[TheLongHaul]

One of the biggest misconceptions in the Mick Cronin era is that DV got worse. His percentages were fairly consistent over 4 years. He took fewer shots his senior season.

His percentages also went down from his sophomore-junior-senior year. Like I said, I don't think he got worse, he just didn't get much better.

 

[bearcat jeff]

His percentages also went down from his sophomore-junior-senior year. Like I said, I don't think he got worse, he just didn't get much better.

Sophmore season was his best percentage wise. Frosh, junior and senior very comparable.

 

[Juliepitzer]

Back on subject, I am thrilled to see the team have such a successful season. We are enjoying our time here in NYC and saw a great game tonight as always. Crowds are great. If you get a chance to attend a BE tourney, please do. It is a wonderful experience. As far as anyone being wrong about Cronin, does it really matter? We all have our reasons for feeling as we do and for my part, mine are well documented. As one poster put it, sometimes a grievance can be personal. But I believe we ALL are fans of the team, and right or wrong in our views of their coach, we will support our young men through hell and high water. GO CATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!