Octavius Ellis

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This decision may not be up to Cronin. It wasn't entirely up to him the first time. The selfish part of me wants him on the team so we are a better basketball team. The compassionate part of me wants him on the team because of the things he has been through.

The other part of me says he is going to seriously injure someone and he's VERY lucky he has not already done that. If...IF...he gets another chance by the administration and coaching staff...he had better come back next season in FULL control of his anger issues and he should be on a very short leash. If he gets kicked out of another game (for an obvious flagrant attempt) he should just keep on walking IMO...I just hope for his sake those conditions were not ALREADY set up as rules for him.

If he had connected on that attempt (in this tourney) and knocked him out our basketball program would take another huge publicity hit the size of the X brawl. Are we willing to risk that on one kid's childish behavior?

He's let his team down once again. You don't deserve to get many chances to do that. He needs to be mandated to complete an extensive mental therapy program before playing again IMO...and even then only if he's proven he's got it under control. I would not play him in another game including KY...until he's been through and satisfactorily passed a rigorous mental therapy program. For his sake I hope he can release the demons...I really do.

I have been in therapy myself for other issues besides anger so this is not to create a stigma around Ellis...I really want to see him get better and succeed in life. If they (coach/admin) don't do something about it now...they will be letting him down and risking his entire future (not just basketball) IMO. If I were Cronin I would not fight (the admin) to keep him in games...I would fight to keep him in the program so that he can get the help he needs off the court.
 
HoosierCat said:
No, but I think he would of been shocked that he just took a forearm for no reason
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Were any of us shocked he threw it? Purdue scouts teams too.

Again, I'm sure they were playing Ellis physical because they knew he would implode, but to say that he didn't owe Hammonds an apology because he definitely baited him is a bit much. Though I personally don't care if he gives an apology anymore. I'm pretty sure he's already had to do that one and I'm pretty sure he has already cried after getting kicked out of the game. Eventually, it's time to grow up.
 
waterhead said:
This decision may not be up to Cronin. It wasn't entirely up to him the first time. The selfish part of me wants him on the team so we are a better basketball team. The compassionate part of me wants him on the team because of the things he has been through.

The other part of me says he is going to seriously injure someone and he's VERY lucky he has not already done that. If...IF...he gets another chance by the administration and coaching staff...he had better come back next season in FULL control of his anger issues and he should be on a very short leash. If he gets kicked out of another game (for an obvious flagrant attempt) he should just keep on walking IMO...I just hope for his sake those conditions were not ALREADY set up as rules for him.

If he had connected on that attempt (in this tourney) and knocked him out our basketball program would take another huge publicity hit the size of the X brawl. Are we willing to risk that on one kid's childish behavior?

He's let his team down once again. You don't deserve to get many chances to do that. He needs to be mandated to complete an extensive mental therapy program before playing again IMO...and even then only if he's proven he's got it under control. I would not play him in another game including KY...until he's been through and satisfactorily passed a rigorous mental therapy program. For his sake I hope he can release the demons...I really do.

I have been in therapy myself for other issues besides anger so this is not to create a stigma around Ellis...I really want to see him get better and succeed in life. If they (coach/admin) don't do something about it now...they will be letting him down and risking his entire future (not just basketball) IMO. If I were Cronin I would not fight (the admin) to keep him in games...I would fight to keep him in the program so that he can get the help he needs off the court.
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Easy there guy. A little extreme. I respect your opinion but sounds like you're basing Ellis's situation off your own experiences. You don't know what kind of therapy he has already had or is going to try. Let's not exaggerate the situation here. He didn't pull a gun on the guy and curb stomp him. Anyone see the LSU/Auburn game? The Auburn player straight up swung, threw his sets up to square up. Did Ellis? No. I seriously question if some of you ever played basketball competitively. Some guys handle the emotions better than others in the heat of the moment on the court. Ellis is not one of them but its something that can be worked on. Basketball can get physical and sometime emotions get to guys. Go youtube NBA or college basketball fights, there are hundreds of great scuffles. There are dozens are great hard forearms that are a bit excessive. Its basketball! Sorry but they don't need extensive psychotherapy.
 
TheLongHaul said:
Were any of us shocked he threw it? Purdue scouts teams too.

Again, I'm sure they were playing Ellis physical because they knew he would implode, but to say that he didn't owe Hammonds an apology because he definitely baited him is a bit much. Though I personally don't care if he gives an apology anymore. I'm pretty sure he's already had to do that one and I'm pretty sure he has already cried after getting kicked out of the game. Eventually, it's time to grow up.
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Harsh words for a young Bearcat that just turned 22yrs old 10 days ago.

There is no excuse for it. It happened regardless of the obvious baiting. I was pissed and cussed at the TV, as did most of the bar. It was handled properly. He cried. I felt horrible for "Ta". Still do. I hope it never happens again, as I'm sure he and anyone even loosely associated with the program feels. I hope he has the game of his life against Kentucky and I eagerly await seeing him grow as a person and a player for the University of Cincinnati.

Let's Go Bearcats!!!
 
I'd agree with both of you if this was his first time. It wasn't. It wasn't even his second, third, or fourth time. It was at least his fifth time. Let that sink in for a moment.

Also, yes, fights do happen. And when someone is going after you you react and protect yourself. This wasn't that kind of situation. I'm sure he was baited to some degree, but he just threw a forearm to someones jaw while that person wasn't even looking. That's a complete punk move.
 
TheLongHaul said:
I'd agree with both of you if this was his first time. It wasn't. It wasn't even his second, third, or fourth time. It was at least his fifth time. Let that sink in for a moment.

Also, yes, fights do happen. And when someone is going after you you react and protect yourself. This wasn't that kind of situation. I'm sure he was baited to some degree, but he just threw a forearm to someones jaw while that person wasn't even looking. That's a complete punk move.
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While I agree it is getting old. All it tells me is there is more work to be done with him, whatever that may be. I look forward to seeing him take the floor Saturday. Moving on. :)
 
BearcatSpaniard513 said:
With their size we might have to start DeBerry, Ellis and Clark
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Shaq has to start. Only player that matches or has more athletiscm than Kentucky players. their going to try attack us on the wing with length. Make them beat us deep nothing in paint. Moore going have to play were going need his fouls.
 
I like Ellis. I want him starting tomorrow and I hope he plays great. Toughness is our identity. He's playing for the right school. He probably does have some issues. It may bite us big time down the road, but maybe not. He plays hard. He has a lot of fire. He wants to win. I have already forgiven him. I want him to help us shock the world tomorrow!
 
UCalum08 said:
Easy there guy. A little extreme. I respect your opinion but sounds like you're basing Ellis's situation off your own experiences. You don't know what kind of therapy he has already had or is going to try. Let's not exaggerate the situation here. He didn't pull a gun on the guy and curb stomp him. Anyone see the LSU/Auburn game? The Auburn player straight up swung, threw his sets up to square up. Did Ellis? No. I seriously question if some of you ever played basketball competitively. Some guys handle the emotions better than others in the heat of the moment on the court. Ellis is not one of them but its something that can be worked on. Basketball can get physical and sometime emotions get to guys. Go youtube NBA or college basketball fights, there are hundreds of great scuffles. There are dozens are great hard forearms that are a bit excessive. Its basketball! Sorry but they don't need extensive psychotherapy.
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I respect your opinion as well. No, my experience was nothing like his at all. Yes, I played competitive BB without ever having to take a swing at someone.

When I say a rigorous program I am not talking about a looney bin. I am talking about counseling for obvious issues. If he has been through it...it hasn't worked. It may have helped but he needs more...and probably more extensive like I was saying.

He's had enough issues that caused him to already get kicked off the team once!!! He's doing it again!!! He's been kicked out of games 3 times and been close on a few more occasions.

It's BB is you're answer? Some people deal with it differently? LOL! Yes...the one's who get suspended and kicked off teams. I would like to avoid that scenario.

Just putting him back on the court is saying "you're doing all the right things please continue"
 
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What Ellis did was very embarrassing. It was a cheap shot and he deserved to be ejected. He got extremely frustrated and unfortunately he simply has a lot of trouble controlling that anger. The only thing I disagree with are the people who are saying enough is enough and it's time to grow up. It is so much more complicated than that. The guy as a 10 year old saw his mother murdered. Walked in to her lying in a pool of blood. AT AGE 10. I am not a psychologist but I cant even begin to presume the type of mental and behavioral problems this would cause a person or for how long it would take to deal with those issues. Maybe he will have them his whole life. Maybe its just the cards that were dealt. It sucks. It looks bad for the program at times. However I support Mick and his staff and the university for supporting Ellis through this. He doesnt need tough love. He needs a support system from adults. He needs professional help which he is getting from a doctor. I dont care what jersey he had on it was a punk move. I just dont think he is being a punk for punks sake. He has a real mental problem and the physicality and competitive nature of college basketball at times can be a bad mixture for that problem. Keep trying to get better Oct. Sad stuff.
 
waterhead said:
I respect your opinion as well. No, my experience was nothing like his at all. Yes, I played competitive BB without ever having to take a swing at someone.

When I say a rigorous program I am not talking about a looney bin. I am talking about counseling for obvious issues. If he has been through it...it hasn't worked. It may have helped but he needs more...and probably more extensive like I was saying.

He's had enough issues that caused him to already get kicked off the team once!!! He's doing it again!!! He's been kicked out of games 3 times and been close on a few more occasions.

It's BB is you're answer? Some people deal with it differently? LOL! Yes...the one's who get suspended and kicked off teams. I would like to avoid that scenario.

Just putting him back on the court is saying "you're doing all the right things please continue"
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Thanks for clarifying and I see your points. I don't think that is the message when he plays Saturday. I just think the easy answer is to not let him return to the court but its not the right answer. He and UC are past that point, tried it already. That's why I think he should play but continue to get help off the court.
 
Laimbeer and laetner did worse things than ellis and the fans loved them, I got know problem with it, he got kicked out of the game and served his punishment
 
UCalum08 said:
Thanks for clarifying and I see your points. I don't think that is the message when he plays Saturday. I just think the easy answer is to not let him return to the court but its not the right answer. He and UC are past that point, tried it already. That's why I think he should play but continue to get help off the court.
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Hey...I want him to play as a fan!! As a program I just think the message right now needs to be sent that he can no longer keep doing this...and that has to start sometime. After the KY game would not send the same message. We have about 1% chance of winning anyway
 
TheLongHaul said:
Based on what? "Definitely" a bait? I'm sure they both were saying something to each other. Ellis talks plenty of smack each and every game.
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I was there, they were baiting ellis all game. Ellis took some pretty bad shots. At least three. Honestly the coaches have to see that and have the refs look at film to get cleaned up. What ellis did last night was wrong, but given his history it was completely expected and Purdue knew it. They wanted him to cheap shot and leave game. Hammons acted like they won game when ellis got whistled. As bad as ellis was, Purdue and hammons and has in the first half are just as bad for intentionally doing it. What's worse the bully or the guy who reacts to the bully. I'm not excusing ellis by any stretch of the imagination but Purdue needs some blame in this. And again shame on coaches for not having refs clean that up earlier.
 
Hammons should've been t'd on play too. Fwiw, UK fans around us were complaining all game on the shots ellis was taking. They were yelling at refs that ellis was getting hammered. They baited ellis and it worked. Refs should've cleaned it up earlier and coaches should've called them out.
 

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