Paradise Jam

[cincyalum2014]

Jaevin ruled out for rest of tourny (no surprise) and will have an MRI when he gets back to the states. With Jaevin and Sorolla being 1A and 1B off the bench our depth with really be tested.... we can’t trust Diarra or Moore...I think Davenport plays with a lot of intensity and will get more minutes with Jaevin out, however long that may be, adams woods and Harvey at times look completely overwhelmed, with them being true freshman they are still learning and hopefully can continue to develop as the season moves along.

 

[cincyalum2014]

Didn't think I'd ever say this, but we gotta get Vogt the ball more. 4-4 for 13 points with 13 boards, 0 fouls.


He's shooting 73.1% from the floor so far and somehow 64% from the line.


On a team where its becoming increasingly apparent if your last name isn't Cumberland you just can't shoot, we probably need to pound the ball more inside.

Imagine what the lineup would look like if Vogt was not grated a waiver to play this year... yikes

 

[cincrulz11]

Jaevin ruled out for rest of tourny (no surprise) and will have an MRI when he gets back to the states. With Jaevin and Sorolla being 1A and 1B off the bench our depth with really be tested.... we can’t trust Diarra or Moore...I think Davenport plays with a lot of intensity and will get more minutes with Jaevin out, however long that may be, adams woods and Harvey at times look completely overwhelmed, with them being true freshman they are still learning and hopefully can continue to develop as the season moves along.

I wonder if harvey is being held back by whatever keeps him in a walking boot.


We have no depth and a team that doesn't really fit the system we want to run without Jaevin. We needs lots of shots for Cumberland and Vogt.


McNeal is becoming a concern. Scott is shooting 25% on shots not around the rim. Cumberland doesn't have his legs yet and is shooting 23% from 3.


This team has to find a way to get to January. Would figure this is the year our December is loaded up with quality opponents.

 

[cincyguy13]

I wonder if harvey is being held back by whatever keeps him in a walking boot.


We have no depth and a team that doesn't really fit the system we want to run without Jaevin. We needs lots of shots for Cumberland and Vogt.


McNeal is becoming a concern. Scott is shooting 25% on shots not around the rim. Cumberland doesn't have his legs yet and is shooting 23% from 3.


This team has to find a way to get to January. Would figure this is the year our December is loaded up with quality opponents.

Yeah, the talent isn’t there. And as we’ve seen with the players that left, the talent wouldn’t have been there if they stayed. I think we can get better but everyone needs to be healthy. Not sure what’s going on with Harvey.

 

[skyblade]

Yeah, the talent isn’t there. And as we’ve seen with the players that left, the talent wouldn’t have been there if they stayed. I think we can get better but everyone needs to be healthy. Not sure what’s going on with Harvey.

If everyone stayed, we would have lost only two players from last years team, JJ and Broome. You are crazy if you think JJ and Broome were the key pieces on last years team.

We got some nice additions (Jaevin and Vogt), but overall our depth seems significantly worse compared to last year.

 

[TheLongHaul]

The only player of significance was Brooks. The others wouldn't have made any difference on this team. Maybe LJ but it's a stretch to say that based on what he showed last year.

Harvey is a freshman who hadn't played much since last December. It's going to take him some time. It's going to take most of these guys some time. Now if Jaevin is seriously injured then they may be in trouble.

 

[Jon Rycek]

Cumberland’s stats were very similar to Harvey’s in his first few games too, playing more minutes. Too early to judge him yet

 

[cincyguy13]

Cumberland’s stats were very similar to Harvey’s in his first few games too, playing more minutes. Too early to judge him yet

I agree, more so if he’s hurt. I think he will be good. Good size, ball handler and good vision. We haven’t really seen enough of any of the freshman to make any judgements. Although it is fun to try to predict.

 

[cincyguy13]

If everyone stayed, we would have lost only two players from last years team, JJ and Broome. You are crazy if you think JJ and Broome were the key pieces on last years team.

We got some nice additions (Jaevin and Vogt), but overall our depth seems significantly worse compared to last year.

I keep seeing people say, “ if everyone would have stayed we would be better,” and I don’t understand it. I posted the stats of everyone that left and the best player so far was Logan Johnson, averaging 2 points a game. McNeal isn’t great but he is at least even of slightly better at this point. Jaevin is way better than anyone that left. Brooks is the only one that we would want and Vogt has put up just as good if not better stats than brooks ever had. I think brooks is a better player but let’s not act like he didn’t foul out of every game. Just not sure how we’d be better if everyone stayed.

 

[cincyguy13]

Two other random thoughts.
Keith played well. He has to be more consistent.

Our wings have to rebound better. Houston played 4 guards most of the year last year and would just out work you for rebounds. Our guards and wings have to do better.

 

[skyblade]

I keep seeing people say, “ if everyone would have stayed we would be better,” and I don’t understand it. I posted the stats of everyone that left and the best player so far was Logan Johnson, averaging 2 points a game. McNeal isn’t great but he is at least even of slightly better at this point. Jaevin is way better than anyone that left. Brooks is the only one that we would want and Vogt has put up just as good if not better stats than brooks ever had. I think brooks is a better player but let’s not act like he didn’t foul out of every game. Just not sure how we’d be better if everyone stayed.

Brooks is significantly better than Vogt. Vogt has played well (besides against OSU), but is far behind Brooks in terms of defense and rebounding. And Vogt has had major foul trouble in each of his last two seasons (as well as against OSU). Vogt's success has come against teams with guys who are 5-6" inches shorter than him, real teams will have bigs.

I'd take LoJo over McNeal. LoJo would have given us a PG for multiple years, he also is longer and more athletic. Neither McNeal or LoJo brings much on offense, but LoJo brings more on D and rebounding.

Hardnett is playing out of position - backup center - for an undermanned Buffalo. We could definitely use his size for both defense and rebounding.

Cronin recruited players for their defense and rebounding, so if they brought little on offense it wasn't a big deal - the offensive scheme ran through only a few players. Brannen recruited guys who are on average smaller, less athletic and worse at defense/rebounding, but who were supposed to make up for that by being more offensively skilled. His scheme involves everyone on offense. So far, only 2 players (Jaevin, Vogt) bring enough on offense that the defense/rebounding drop is arguably worth the trade-off.

 

[skyblade]

Two other random thoughts.
Keith played well. He has to be more consistent.

Our wings have to rebound better. Houston played 4 guards most of the year last year and would just out work you for rebounds. Our guards and wings have to do better.

I saw this as an issue before the season started and so far it still looks like an issue. Jarron and Jaevin are both under 3 rebounds per 40 minutes, they need to do better. Keith and McNeal are at 4.4 and 4.7 respectively, which isn't great either. I'd like to see Jarron, Kieth and McNeal all be at least over 5.0. Jarron was at 5.5 rebounds per 40 minutes last year.

Diarra (leads team with 15.0 rebounds/40 minutes), Davenport (10.7), Moore (8.9) and MAW (7.0) have done very well at rebounding off the bench - though the numbers may not be very accurate right now because of low minutes. Harvey has only 3.9 rebounds/40 minutes, which is probably part of why he isn't getting minutes.

 

[cincyguy13]

Brooks is significantly better than Vogt. Vogt has played well (besides against OSU), but is far behind Brooks in terms of defense and rebounding. And Vogt has had major foul trouble in each of his last two seasons (as well as against OSU). Vogt's success has come against teams with guys who are 5-6" inches shorter than him, real teams will have bigs.

I'd take LoJo over McNeal. LoJo would have given us a PG for multiple years, he also is longer and more athletic. Neither McNeal or LoJo brings much on offense, but LoJo brings more on D and rebounding.

Hardnett is playing out of position - backup center - for an undermanned Buffalo. We could definitely use his size for both defense and rebounding.

Cronin recruited players for their defense and rebounding, so if they brought little on offense it wasn't a big deal - the offensive scheme ran through only a few players. Brannen recruited guys who are on average smaller, less athletic and worse at defense/rebounding, but who were supposed to make up for that by being more offensively skilled. His scheme involves everyone on offense. So far, only 2 players (Jaevin, Vogt) bring enough on offense that the defense/rebounding drop is arguably worth the trade-off.

I’m talking strictly this year. If you are talking future, okay but Lojo is not better than McNeal this year. Lojo wouldn’t give you anything McNeal wouldnt. Look at what’s he’s done at st Mary’s. Also I agree, brooks is better than Vogt but he’s not that much better. I think people forget brooks got in foul trouble literally every big game and missed more dunks than anyone. If you think these guys would magically be putting up numbers here that they are not even close to elsewhere, I disagree. Especially with a new coach.

The idea and potential of lojo is great but he hasn’t done anything with the opportunities.

 

[cincrulz11]

I’m talking strictly this year. If you are talking future, okay but Lojo is not better than McNeal this year. Lojo wouldn’t give you anything McNeal wouldnt. Look at what’s he’s done at st Mary’s. Also I agree, brooks is better than Vogt but he’s not that much better. I think people forget brooks got in foul trouble literally every big game and missed more dunks than anyone. If you think these guys would magically be putting up numbers here that they are not even close to elsewhere, I disagree. Especially with a new coach.

Vogt career foul rate 6.9/40. Brooks career foul rate 6.3/40

 

[skyblade]

Vogt career foul rate 6.9/40. Brooks career foul rate 6.3/40

Brooks foul rate last year 5.7/40, Vogt 7.7/40. Using career stats is a good example of how you can lie with stats.

 

[cincyguy13]

Vogt career foul rate 6.9/40. Brooks career foul rate 6.3/40

Yeah, before the season I would have said Vogt wasn’t even close to brooks, now I don’t think there is much of a difference. Yes he will struggle against better competition. Everyone does. Brooks struggled to stay on the floor against better competition. Watch the tournament game against Iowa.

 

[cincrulz11]

Brooks foul rate last year 5.7/40, Vogt 7.7/40. Using career stats is a good example of how you can lie with stats.

Brooks 7.9 as a freshman 6.4 as a sophomore.


Vogt 4.7 as freshman but didn't play at all, 7.7 as a sophomore.



Turns out bigs can get better with it with more experience. who knew.



btw vogt 4.4 this year.

 

[skyblade]

Brooks 7.9 as a freshman 6.4 as a sophomore.


Vogt 4.7 as freshman but didn't play at all, 7.7 as a sophomore.



Turns out bigs can get better with it with more experience. who knew.



btw vogt 4.4 this year.

They generally do get better, but not by 3 fouls per 40 minutes. I would have expected Brooks to be down around 4.5/40 this year, I expect Vogt to be around 6.0/40. Vogt has done well at not fouling against bad teams, but he committed around 14 fouls/40 minutes against OSU.

 

[Queens_NYC]

Onto Bowling Green... On paper they appear to be a step above Drake and Illinois State. They return a good chunk (9 returnees) from last year's 22-win team and are led by one of best returning players in the MAC, 6'4 junior guard Justin Turner.

Through 5 games this year, Turner is 10-20 from 3 and 14-14 from the FT line, while averaging nearly 21 ppg to go with 6.5 rpg and 4.5 apg. He scored 26 in a 9-point loss at LSU and 27 last night against WKU, so he clearly has the ability to raise his game against good teams.

Aside from him, BG doesn't feature any other players who are particularly impressive but it's clear they're playing with a pretty high level of cohesion through 5th year coach Michael Huger.

I'll take a win in any form Sunday evening but hopefully an improved outside shooting performance allows us to obtain an early lead and hold it for 40 minutes.

 

[cincyguy13]

They generally do get better, but not by 3 fouls per 40 minutes. I would have expected Brooks to be down around 4.5/40 this year, I expect Vogt to be around 6.0/40. Vogt has done well at not fouling against bad teams, but he committed around 14 fouls/40 minutes against OSU.

I’m sure you could pick some games where brooks had similar. My point was it’s not that big a drop off, I still think that’s the case.