Player Development for 2018-2019 Season

[Jon Rycek]

At what point does it become NOT the players...but the coach? If the players aren't performing in crunch time who is to blame ultimately? Why do the players not perform? Why do we not have players who CAN perform?

Uhm.... we were very good in close games all season. Are we going to disregard that, or say that was all the players, and this one was the coach?

 

[Jon Rycek]

Yeah I was thinking about having that 1 impact freshman player per class and how well it's built the program. For 17-18: Broome. That's why we were a solid team and shoulda made some noise in the tourney besides whimpering.

But - we lose Clark. And if Evans goes Pro we lose another impact player. So we need 2 to step up big while the others develop on progress. There are kids on this roster that I like, but I can't tell you who I think will have a standout sophomore year. I just don't see it. And I don't know the freshman very well but hope 1 can be an impact player. But it seems like our streak might come to an end, which would result in a down year....still make the tournament, but down (although equal to the others in regards to tournament success).

I would bet my house we still make the tourney next year. Cmon man.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Don’t mind Cumberland ever taking any shot, and for the rest as long as it’s in rhythm it’s way better than a turnover

Why does it have to be long 2 or turnover?

Fyi Cumberland shot 37.7% on 2 point jumpshots. It's not a good shot.

 

[mdchick]

Why does it have to be long 2 or turnover?

Fyi Cumberland shot 37.7% on 2 point jumpshots. It's not a good shot.

Damn didn’t know it was a fact,
my bad

 

[cincyguy13]

I would bet my house we still make the tourney next year. Cmon man.

I agree. Would be surprised if we didn’t make it. We will have some early chances to get a couple good wins. Most at home. If we can steal a couple of them and hold serve in the conference, we’ll be alright.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Damn didn’t know it was a fact,
my bad

Just a little more info for you on shooting the 2 point jumpers. HoopMath tracks it but it doesn't show exactly how many feet out the shot is. It's just at the rim, 2 point jumpers, and 3s. Stands to reason though that farther out would drop the %. So for some guys I'd imagine the numbers you see are actually better than what the actual "long 2" % would be.

Guards
Trevor Moore 27.2%
Jenifer 30.3%
Broome 32.2%
Evans 35.3%
Williams 35.7%
Cumberland 37.7%
Caupain last year 35.9%

Coach Cronin just called himself an analytics guy a couple weeks ago. How his teams continue to have so many guys taking these shots is astounding. Surely he is aware of these numbers. So why do we continue to take those shots? Bc another thing we preach is passing the ball and having a high assist total. This makes sense bc you shoot a higher % on assisted shots. But the 2 point jumpers are assisted shots significantly less than the 3s or shots at the rim. They tend to be more pull up off the dribble type looks. If we have a coach who is about analytics, efficiency, KenPom, etc, then how come he hasn't seemed to ever tell any of his players that taking those shots is bad for them individually and bad for the team?

We are leaving points on the board by taking these shots so regularly. It needs to stop.

And I realize there are late clock situations sometimes where a guy has to just fire something up. That's not what we are talking about here.

 

[cincycpaw]

I would bet my house we still make the tourney next year. Cmon man.

Perhaps you didn’t read my post. I said our streak of having an impact freshman has come to an end. That we will still make the tournament. Read again.

 

[AZ BEARCAT]

Perhaps you didn’t read my post. I said our streak of having an impact freshman has come to an end. That we will still make the tournament. Read again.

having a impact year his freshman year.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Lol. We won the league, won the conference tourney and had a 2 seed. It was a wildly successful season.

Cane was his first championship at UC. Cane won more games at UC then he did at SHU combined.

We played bad in 5 games all damn year. And, I dunno if you noticed what happened in the Nevada game, but cane was not good against those bigger players. Cane is a good player but let’s not pretend the mismanagement of cane is why we lost to Nevada.

Cane’s last 3 games of year consisted of 2 assists and 6 TO’s. Cane was 2-12 from 3 in elimination tourney games. He was 1-6 from 2 in the NCAA tourney.

He played his worst games when we needed him the most and I don’t blame him for it, but to pretend this level and this competition isn’t a huge step up is just ridiculous.

I give zero blame to Cronin for the Nevada loss. When our guys stop rebounding and making shots, what is Cronin going to do to fix it? Cumberland’s bond head foul is all on him. And Evans just stopped attacking.

Cane’s usage rate will go up next year but I never want it to be as high as it was at scared heart because that’s not a winning formula

When Loyola played Nevada they started the 2nd half 13-13 and 11 of those were layups and dunks. Not sure why Loyola can get 6 foot nothing kids from Overland Park to get to the rim against the same bigger players and we aren't able to have that. One might say the coach screaming at Broome not to shoot could be a factor. Or him d*cking Broome around all year and bringing him off the bench and giving him inconsistent bs minutes all year could be a factor. Or we could just go with the theory that the MVC short dudes from my city in Kansas are big time ballers. And we can't get players like that. Getting to the hoop also could've been easier had Williams been able to get off the bench and do the one thing he's good at right now. But nah. We'll go with cold shooting Moore instead. None of this has anything to do with coaching though. We are just victims of unfortunate, uncontrollable circumstances.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

When Loyola played Nevada they started the 2nd half 13-13 and 11 of those were layups and dunks. Not sure why Loyola can get 6 foot nothing kids from Overland Park to get to the rim against the same bigger players and we aren't able to have that. One might say the coach screaming at Broome not to shoot could be a factor. Or him d*cking Broome around all year and bringing him off the bench and giving him inconsistent bs minutes all year could be a factor. Or we could just go with the theory that the MVC short dudes from my city in Kansas are big time ballers. And we can't get players like that. Getting to the hoop also could've been easier had Williams been able to get off the bench and do the one thing he's good at right now. But nah. We'll go with cold shooting Moore instead. None of this has anything to do with coaching though. We are just victims of unfortunate, uncontrollable circumstances.

The announcers were even going nuts during the game and saying how they are taking the size and physicality disadvantage at some positions and using it against Nevada. And they clearly saw that reverse layups were the key on those drives. Something we weren't able to exploit. You can make as many excuses why not as you want. But if Loyola has the coaches/players/whatever to make it happen, how do we not?

 

[Defense first]

The announcers were even going nuts during the game and saying how they are taking the size and physicality disadvantage at some positions and using it against Nevada. And they clearly saw that reverse layups were the key on those drives. Something we weren't able to exploit. You can make as many excuses why not as you want. But if Loyola has the coaches/players/whatever to make it happen, how do we not?

I watched loyola about 5 times before the tournament. We were not going to walk over then had we won. They are the best team in the tournament by far. Now that's doesn't mean they win it all, and they don't have the caliber athletes high major teams do, but they pass and attack and find the open man every single play. They will come down make one pass, that guy will dribble drive, suck the defense and pass, as the defense becomes off kilter, that guy will pump fake and drive again. They also cut off the first pass. These guys are going to be miserable to stop no matter who they play on offense. They are well well coached. But watching them in there conference tournament and against Florida it was evident that there team chemistry and understanding of how to play offense is unmatched. They basically repeat this on offense every time. It works every time. We could use this way of playing on offense, no matter who the personnel.

 

[justinhub2003]

When Loyola played Nevada they started the 2nd half 13-13 and 11 of those were layups and dunks. Not sure why Loyola can get 6 foot nothing kids from Overland Park to get to the rim against the same bigger players and we aren't able to have that. One might say the coach screaming at Broome not to shoot could be a factor. Or him d*cking Broome around all year and bringing him off the bench and giving him inconsistent bs minutes all year could be a factor. Or we could just go with the theory that the MVC short dudes from my city in Kansas are big time ballers. And we can't get players like that. Getting to the hoop also could've been easier had Williams been able to get off the bench and do the one thing he's good at right now. But nah. We'll go with cold shooting Moore instead. None of this has anything to do with coaching though. We are just victims of unfortunate, uncontrollable circumstances.

Lol this is perfect in theory.

But in practice, cane wasn’t at his best in any elimination tourney tourney games.

I’m sure he’d even admit that. He stopped making 3’s and then his dribble drive was far less effective.

I mean didn’t he also commit the game losing TO?

Of the 68 teams in the tourney, only 6 other teams had a lead guard with a higher TO rate than Cane. Our players lost this game, not Cronin. I still don’t get how it’s Cronin’s faukt our guys couldn’t hit shots

 

[Nayers]

Lol this is perfect in theory.

But in practice, cane wasn’t at his best in any elimination tourney tourney games.

I’m sure he’d even admit that. He stopped making 3’s and then his dribble drive was far less effective.

I mean didn’t he also commit the game losing TO?

Of the 68 teams in the tourney, only 6 other teams had a lead guard with a higher TO rate than Cane. Our players lost this game, not Cronin. I still don’t get how it’s Cronin’s faukt our guys couldn’t hit shots

i still don't get how you can give Cronin a pass for this? Are you serious? You can blame any loss on the players technically. When is the coach to blame in your book?

You don't think his season long handling of Broome made cane play so tight?
Also, I don't know if you could even consider broome the lead guard since he never started.

Why didn't Loyola give up their 20 point lead to Nevada? You really gonna tell me their players are better than ours? Coach did not lead the team and had no answers for them when shit hit the fan.

So does he have a job here indefinitely as long as he blames the players after every tough loss?

 

[cincycpaw]

Lol this is perfect in theory.

But in practice, cane wasn’t at his best in any elimination tourney tourney games.

I’m sure he’d even admit that. He stopped making 3’s and then his dribble drive was far less effective.

I mean didn’t he also commit the game losing TO?

Of the 68 teams in the tourney, only 6 other teams had a lead guard with a higher TO rate than Cane. Our players lost this game, not Cronin. I still don’t get how it’s Cronin’s faukt our guys couldn’t hit shots

Other coaches call time outs. Other coaches set up offensive plays other than “Jacob...take the ball at the top of the key and hope to make something happen”. We nearly lost other big leads this same way this same season. It’s awful that our coach couldn’t draw up 2 damn plays to get baskets in 12 minutes.

This loss is almost exclusively on Cronin. He’s the leaders, he should own it. The fact he hasn’t is why I’m more concerned. I’d still be pissed about it, but I’m genuienly concerned he can’t take ownership of his failures, cause he won’t get better.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Lol this is perfect in theory.

But in practice, cane wasn’t at his best in any elimination tourney tourney games.

I’m sure he’d even admit that. He stopped making 3’s and then his dribble drive was far less effective.

I mean didn’t he also commit the game losing TO?

Of the 68 teams in the tourney, only 6 other teams had a lead guard with a higher TO rate than Cane. Our players lost this game, not Cronin. I still don’t get how it’s Cronin’s faukt our guys couldn’t hit shots

You are completely missing the point.

 

[HarryBosch]

i still don't get how you can give Cronin a pass for this? Are you serious? You can blame any loss on the players technically. When is the coach to blame in your book?

You don't think his season long handling of Broome made cane play so tight?
Also, I don't know if you could even consider broome the lead guard since he never started.

Why didn't Loyola give up their 20 point lead to Nevada? You really gonna tell me their players are better than ours? Coach did not lead the team and had no answers for them when shit hit the fan.

So does he have a job here indefinitely as long as he blames the players after every tough loss?

Preach it brother. Cronin made no attempt to try and stop the bleeding.

 

[BearcatsNE]

i still don't get how you can give Cronin a pass for this? Are you serious? You can blame any loss on the players technically. When is the coach to blame in your book?

You don't think his season long handling of Broome made cane play so tight?
Also, I don't know if you could even consider broome the lead guard since he never started.

Why didn't Loyola give up their 20 point lead to Nevada? You really gonna tell me their players are better than ours? Coach did not lead the team and had no answers for them when shit hit the fan.

So does he have a job here indefinitely as long as he blames the players after every tough loss?

Justin you’re a joke for this one. Cane wasn’t never treated fairly from day one. He wasn’t able to play in the same way or freedom as Jacob or Jarron. And that’s all in Cronin. And you can say Cane should have been stronger mentally but the only reason his mental state was shaking was because of who he played for. You can sit there and talk about TO’s all you want but there’s no lead guard that doesn’t turn the ball over even in big games. You are a Cronin loyalist true and true. Cronin added in that lose and he is the reason Jacob is playing a position he’s not ready for. Cronin was the reason Jarron fouled out. Cronin is the reason Cane plays so tight. Stop Justin Cronin has reached his peak. And the sad thing about it all is now he the kids he crapped on all season are the exact guys he have to hope trust in him. You can sit there and keep telling yourself Cronins not the blame but everyone knows Cronin was wrong all year long in his dealings:handling of Cane.

 

[cincyguy13]

i still don't get how you can give Cronin a pass for this? Are you serious? You can blame any loss on the players technically. When is the coach to blame in your book?

You don't think his season long handling of Broome made cane play so tight?
Also, I don't know if you could even consider broome the lead guard since he never started.

Why didn't Loyola give up their 20 point lead to Nevada? You really gonna tell me their players are better than ours? Coach did not lead the team and had no answers for them when shit hit the fan.

So does he have a job here indefinitely as long as he blames the players after every tough loss?

the people that praise cronin for everything that goes right, then nothing that goes bad are an interesting group. Can't have it both ways, but I guess they can. Most people can see the things he does well and the things he does not, but this group can't seem do that.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

the people that praise cronin for everything that goes right, then nothing that goes bad are an interesting group. Can't have it both ways, but I guess they can. Most people can see the things he does well and the things he does not, but this group can't seem do that.

Yeah it's like you either have to say he is perfect in every way, or you think he's the worst coach ever and he should be fired. There's no in-between. Except there's a huge in-between where 90% of us reside. I'm not about to throw anyone and anything under the bus in order to hold an opinion that our coach does no wrong. That includes players, former players, Bearcat legends, former coaches, you name it. Instead of demanding better results out of the guy making over $2M, they would rather tear everything else down to his level. It's quite strange tbh. I guess they just love him so much that they'll do anything to make sure he is thought of in the best possible light at all times no matter what. The answer always gets deflected and the blame gets reassigned, no matter the topic. Kind of like they learned it from our coach himself. Every road ultimately leads to coaching in college sports. Very few programs have the stars aligned for them year in and year out. So like I say, how good of a coach are you really if you need every single thing to go your way in order to succeed at the highest level on any kind of a regular basis? Btw I believe I posed that question like 4 years ago. And here we are fighting the same battle. This can't go on forever. That's why I put a 2 year timestamp on it. If the landscape truly is deteriorating (more lower seeded and non power teams are making the Final 4 than ever before), that makes it all the more important to take advantage when you have players like we had this year, and like we have moving forward with Cumberland. We need to win a conference title AND advance to the 2nd weekend over the next 2 years, or I'm done. I will not come off of that. And I don't think it's unreasonable. If this doesn't get accomplished, we will be 9 of 10 years without a 2nd weekend appearance. And 13 out of 14 years overall for Cronin. At that point, how could a new coach do much/any worse than that in the tournament? It will be worth trying a new direction at that point for me. And even if we have to hire guys knowing they could go somewhere bigger if they have a ton of success, I'd be willing to chance it. You must remain forward-thinking and dynamic. Something Cincinnati coaches in most sports have struggled with over the years.

 

[Nayers]

Yeah it's like you either have to say he is perfect in every way, or you think he's the worst coach ever and he should be fired. There's no in-between. Except there's a huge in-between where 90% of us reside. I'm not about to throw anyone and anything under the bus in order to hold an opinion that our coach does no wrong. That includes players, former players, Bearcat legends, former coaches, you name it. Instead of demanding better results out of the guy making over $2M, they would rather tear everything else down to his level. It's quite strange tbh. I guess they just love him so much that they'll do anything to make sure he is thought of in the best possible light at all times no matter what. The answer always gets deflected and the blame gets reassigned, no matter the topic. Kind of like they learned it from our coach himself. Every road ultimately leads to coaching in college sports. Very few programs have the stars aligned for them year in and year out. So like I say, how good of a coach are you really if you need every single thing to go your way in order to succeed at the highest level on any kind of a regular basis? Btw I believe I posed that question like 4 years ago. And here we are fighting the same battle. This can't go on forever. That's why I put a 2 year timestamp on it. If the landscape truly is deteriorating (more lower seeded and non power teams are making the Final 4 than ever before), that makes it all the more important to take advantage when you have players like we had this year, and like we have moving forward with Cumberland. We need to win a conference title AND advance to the 2nd weekend over the next 2 years, or I'm done. I will not come off of that. And I don't think it's unreasonable. If this doesn't get accomplished, we will be 9 of 10 years without a 2nd weekend appearance. And 13 out of 14 years overall for Cronin. At that point, how could a new coach do much/any worse than that in the tournament? It will be worth trying a new direction at that point for me. And even if we have to hire guys knowing they could go somewhere bigger if they have a ton of success, I'd be willing to chance it. You must remain forward-thinking and dynamic. Something Cincinnati coaches in most sports have struggled with over the years.

Look at bill self. This was looking like possibly his worst team yet. They lost some bad games this year. but he found a way to coach them up and now they are in the final four.

I just would really like to see coach change and become better. He's young enough and good enough at some aspects that he could become great, but that totally starts with manning up and owning the program, which means owning the bad. His defensive napoleon syndrome is really annoying and embarrassing.