Rotation/Depth Chart

[handwaver]

they do play together. The have to temper that because one of them has to be on the floor at all times.if one picks up 2 fouls in first half the other has to play the whole half.

Waite, I know you, like me, are old enough to remember that one of the best backcourts UC has had in the last 25 years was Van Exel and A D Jackson (a former point) - made the offense a lot better and turnovers rare. I say start TC & Cobb together - if one of them gets a couple of fouls & has to sit, so be it. It's no different than trading them off most of the time as they do now.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Waite, I know you, like me, are old enough to remember that one of the best backcourts UC has had in the last 25 years was Van Exel and A D Jackson (a former point) - made the offense a lot better and turnovers rare. I say start TC & Cobb together - if one of them gets a couple of fouls & has to sit, so be it. It's no different than trading them off most of the time as they do now.

handwaver they also had the rat on that team which gave them another ball handler. This team doesn't have a true point and has TO issues all year. No need to start both. They both get minutes and get minutes together as game dictates. If Cobb was a AA I might relent but he has had moments where he couldn't throw it in the ocean as well. Again our issues have nothing to do with who is playing the 2. When your killed on the glass and shoot 38 from FT line and go ofer from 3 your not going to win.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Last 5 games

Sanders
28 minutes per game
8-28 (28.6%) FG
2-18 (11.1%) 3 PT FG

KJ
27 minutes per game
8-36 (22.2%) FG
5-22 (22.7%) 3 PT FG

We've debated about whether these guys should start or not...but regardless of whether they do or not, I gotta question the amount of minutes overall. Not quite as much with Sanders, but definitely with Kevin Johnson. During this stretch, Johnson is playing well above his season average. Meanwhile, Morman is getting under 7 minutes per game in the last 5 games with 1 DNP. I know Morman isn't known as a shooter, but he could give us a % like these guys and do a ton of other things for us on top of that.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Also, Sanders made 6 of those 8 shots in 1 game.

And KJ hit 4 of those 8 shots in about a 4 minute span in the South Florida game.

A lot of us are pointing to Caupain since the UConn game, but these 2 guys are playing significant minutes at a very low offensive level.

Just to dig way too deep to sum it up: The last 5 games Sanders and KJ have combined for 43 points in 275 minutes. Morman has 86 points in 235 minutes on the season.

 

[MTBU225]

Last 5 games

Sanders
28 minutes per game
8-28 (28.6%) FG
2-18 (11.1%) 3 PT FG

KJ
27 minutes per game
8-36 (22.2%) FG
5-22 (22.7%) 3 PT FG

We've debated about whether these guys should start or not...but regardless of whether they do or not, I gotta question the amount of minutes overall. Not quite as much with Sanders, but definitely with Kevin Johnson. During this stretch, Johnson is playing well above his season average. Meanwhile, Morman is getting under 7 minutes per game in the last 5 games with 1 DNP. I know Morman isn't known as a shooter, but he could give us a % like these guys and do a ton of other things for us on top of that.

I agree with you there about giving Morman more PT. I is the only person among the guards that consistently looks to attack a defense and try to drive it past someone to make things happen. The rest of our guards lately do nothing but meaningless passes 3 feet outside the 3 point line. I wish TC would start attacking the hoop and defense like Morman does. Gotta like Morman's hustle out there as well. Still gives you headaches (understandable as a freshman) but he seems to have a good attitude which will hopefully allow him to develop into a very solid player down the road

 

[Bulldog01]

How good of ball handler you need to pass ball around perimeter? You don't worry about foul trouble with guards. start your five best players, season is on line

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I agree with you there about giving Morman more PT. I is the only person among the guards that consistently looks to attack a defense and try to drive it past someone to make things happen. The rest of our guards lately do nothing but meaningless passes 3 feet outside the 3 point line. I wish TC would start attacking the hoop and defense like Morman does. Gotta like Morman's hustle out there as well. Still gives you headaches (understandable as a freshman) but he seems to have a good attitude which will hopefully allow him to develop into a very solid player down the road

Morman could easily be a 1,000 point scorer here if he is given the chance imo. I'm worried though that he won't get a fair shot until he tailors his offensive game to our slow-paced system. I remember Mick saying before the season that the #1 thing for Morman was that he needed to learn to slow down. I didn't think about it at the time...but wow, really? That's kind of the problem in a nutshell imo. He's the best athlete on the team and maybe the best pure athlete Mick has ever landed. Why the hell would he need to slow down? You think any of Russell Westbrook's coaches ever told him to slow down?

 

[cincrulz11]

Morman could easily be a 1,000 point scorer here if he is given the chance imo. I'm worried though that he won't get a fair shot until he tailors his offensive game to our slow-paced system. I remember Mick saying before the season that the #1 thing for Morman was that he needed to learn to slow down. I didn't think about it at the time...but wow, really? That's kind of the problem in a nutshell imo. He's the best athlete on the team and maybe the best pure athlete Mick has ever landed. Why the hell would he need to slow down? You think any of Russell Westbrook's coaches ever told him to slow down?

Cause he takes a ton of awful shots. It isn't like when he plays he just lights up the scoreboard every time. Sometimes the shots fall and it looks good, but a lot of times they are terrible shots. His % of possessions used is 26.5. The highest out of Caupain, Ellis, Cobb, Clark, and Johnson is 20.5.


He does his own thing on offense and defense and that's probably why he went from getting 16-23 minutes a game to getting none.

 

[MTBU225]

Mormon is still a young player and part of that is taking bad shots and making mistakes, it happens to most young players. He needs to pick his situations better and read a defense better, and if that's what Mick means by "slow down" than thats good and all. But personally I can live with the mistakes he makes because at least he does something with the ball instead of just standing there and making worthless passes and then screwing someone over by giving them the ball with 3 seconds left 18 ft from the hoop. At least he makes decisive, meaningful basketball moves the have the potential to produce something. Yes he needs to temper himself and be more selective, but again he is young, but at least he shows offensive perogative and aggression

 

[UCalum08]

Morman could easily be a 1,000 point scorer here if he is given the chance imo. I'm worried though that he won't get a fair shot until he tailors his offensive game to our slow-paced system. I remember Mick saying before the season that the #1 thing for Morman was that he needed to learn to slow down. I didn't think about it at the time...but wow, really? That's kind of the problem in a nutshell imo. He's the best athlete on the team and maybe the best pure athlete Mick has ever landed. Why the hell would he need to slow down? You think any of Russell Westbrook's coaches ever told him to slow down?

You can't really be trying to compare Westbrook to Mormans situation. Its like apples to oranges. I've been tough on Morman this year but most of its justified. However, I have enjoyed his attitude the past 3-4 games. He has been the one guy I see showing some heart and energy. I see him clapping, encouraging teammates and paying attention. Right now he is our only guard that remotely trys to get to the middle of the paint and create. I think he will get his shot. He just needs to keep improving. Especially with those free throws...

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Cause he takes a ton of awful shots. It isn't like when he plays he just lights up the scoreboard every time. Sometimes the shots fall and it looks good, but a lot of times they are terrible shots. His % of possessions used is 26.5. The highest out of Caupain, Ellis, Cobb, Clark, and Johnson is 20.5.


He does his own thing on offense and defense and that's probably why he went from getting 16-23 minutes a game to getting none.

Well he has played 15+ minutes 8 times and in 17.6 minutes in those games he is scoring 7.3 ppg at 41.5% FG and over 5 FT attempts per game. I just don't get why you even bother recruiting a kid like that? I mean clearly the pathway to playing time here is to do what KJ does... which is stand there for 3 seconds every time you catch it (and still manage to turn it over). I'd so much rather have a guy "do their own thing" offensively and do what Morman does than have a guy "do the team thing" and do what KJ does. Not even close for me at this point. I mean, what do we have to lose at this point? What's the worst that would happen if Morman got 25 minutes? Somehow we'd score less than 49 at home? I'm starting to hate the message we send these kids..."Conform to our stale, slow offense, or ride the pine". Ugh.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

You can't really be trying to compare Westbrook to Mormans situation. Its like apples to oranges. I've been tough on Morman this year but most of its justified. However, I have enjoyed his attitude the past 3-4 games. He has been the one guy I see showing some heart and energy. I see him clapping, encouraging teammates and paying attention. Right now he is our only guard that remotely trys to get to the middle of the paint and create. I think he will get his shot. He just needs to keep improving. Especially with those free throws...

I'm just saying when you have a ridiculous athlete, why get in their way? What's the point of even having Morman if we want to turn him into a guy that fits our offensive system to a T before we even let him on the floor? Let him use his athleticism to improvise. Mick will never send players to the NBA like this.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

You can't really be trying to compare Westbrook to Mormans situation. Its like apples to oranges. I've been tough on Morman this year but most of its justified. However, I have enjoyed his attitude the past 3-4 games. He has been the one guy I see showing some heart and energy. I see him clapping, encouraging teammates and paying attention. Right now he is our only guard that remotely trys to get to the middle of the paint and create. I think he will get his shot. He just needs to keep improving. Especially with those free throws...

I know the Morman to Westbrook thing sounds crazy bc of who Westbrook is now. And I'm not saying Morman is the next NBA All Star game MVP in any way...but don't forget that Westbrook was a 3-star non Top 150 recruit out of high school. He played 9 minutes per game as a frosh (for a Final 4 team) and scored 3.1 ppg as a 55% FT shooter. Even the next year when he blew up, he was just a 33% 3 PT shooter. My point is that the coaches got the hell out of the way and let him play like a maniac. He was so out of control at times, but his raw athleticism led to much more good than harm. With the poor play at the 2 and 3, and the poor body language we're seeing from our guys right now, he could be a big boost for us. Just let him go do his thing. IMO there is no way we won't be better for it in the long run.

 

[mdchick]

I'm a believer in it doesn't matter who starts the game it matters who plays the most. But it definitely matters to college basketball players, psychological they all want to be able to start because they feel like that means they are the best of the best. Which in most cases are true but it's not for are team. I think we need to try to start someone else other than kj, maybe he would play better off of the bench, wether it's cobb or morman Idc but at this point it can't hurt to try.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Last 5 games

Sanders
28 minutes per game
8-28 (28.6%) FG
2-18 (11.1%) 3 PT FG

KJ
27 minutes per game
8-36 (22.2%) FG
5-22 (22.7%) 3 PT FG

We've debated about whether these guys should start or not...but regardless of whether they do or not, I gotta question the amount of minutes overall. Not quite as much with Sanders, but definitely with Kevin Johnson. During this stretch, Johnson is playing well above his season average. Meanwhile, Morman is getting under 7 minutes per game in the last 5 games with 1 DNP. I know Morman isn't known as a shooter, but he could give us a % like these guys and do a ton of other things for us on top of that.

A ton may be a bit of a overstatement.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Morman could easily be a 1,000 point scorer here if he is given the chance imo. I'm worried though that he won't get a fair shot until he tailors his offensive game to our slow-paced system. I remember Mick saying before the season that the #1 thing for Morman was that he needed to learn to slow down. I didn't think about it at the time...but wow, really? That's kind of the problem in a nutshell imo. He's the best athlete on the team and maybe the best pure athlete Mick has ever landed. Why the hell would he need to slow down? You think any of Russell Westbrook's coaches ever told him to slow down?

because he rushes,forces things,doesn't play within himself. Come on Jacob. I could go back on these threads and show you comments where people are wondering how he got in the game. Now your comparing him to Russell Westbrook. The problem in a nut shell is we aren't rebounding, hitting FT's ( I might add the Morman was 0-4 last game ) and we turn the ball over.

 

[rogerOH]

I don't believe they have lost these last few games because of any particular stat. I think it some intangible something that these young kids are missing. hopefully they find it.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Roger I beg to differ. When you shoot 38% from the foul line, get murdered on the glass, give up many second chance points and as a team are )fer the 3 point line yo are not going to win many games.

 

[waterhead]

handwaver they also had the rat on that team which gave them another ball handler. This team doesn't have a true point and has TO issues all year. No need to start both. They both get minutes and get minutes together as game dictates. If Cobb was a AA I might relent but he has had moments where he couldn't throw it in the ocean as well. Again our issues have nothing to do with who is playing the 2. When your killed on the glass and shoot 38 from FT line and go ofer from 3 your not going to win.

I agree with most of what you have been saying Waite but I disagree on this one. They really haven't played all that much together this year (relative to what KJ and TC do). KJ and TC start the game and TC comes out about half way through each half for a short break. Cobb sits for the first 5 minutes of every half (usually) and then comes in. So the first 5 minutes and the 2.5 minutes that TC sits...(of each half)...they don't play together. That's 15 minutes per game of Cobb's 20 minute average. KJ probably plays 75% of his minutes with TC and Cobb about 25%.

Neither one of them are likely to get in foul trouble. Cobb hasn't had more than 3...TC has had 4 only twice. TC is the only one of the two we need to be really careful with anyway in terms of fouls. Fouling is a non issue. TC is better off the ball but has nobody to get him the ball when Cobb isn't in there. Our last game wasn't lost because of Cobb not starting but I would like to see Cobb and TC play a LOT more minutes together just to see what happens.

 

[Bulldog01]

Something serious is going on with team behind closed doors. Team went from having fun playing for each other now the guys on bench don't even get out of their seats for timeout.