Rotation/Depth Chart

[Bulldog01]

Cobb, DeBerry, and Clark are playing decent minutes and are new to the team. Ellis hasn't been here for 2 years and has played a big role. Caupain playing an expanded role with Guyn out. Youth / inexperience / and players playing expanded roles is a possible factor. I will not quit freaking saying it. I'm tired of this clown clown (I'm sorry I couldn't resist, it's meant in fun).

That's not young silly. It doesn't take you months to know where go on court. Juco guys don't look lost on court to stop having a programmed brain. Not rebounding, missing free throws not hustling has nothing to do with youth.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Another quick point. In the game Cobb started he shot the ball well. We lead at half time 23-18. Hardly a fast start. In the game he had 4 turnovers and 2 assist.

Look I know everyone posting here wants the cats to do well. Certainly I do. My opinion is that to do that we need to get back to the things that made us successful this year. Good D, improved foul shooting and cut down on
TO's. If I thought Starting Cobb would accomplish all that I would be all for it. I like having a player with his versitility at my disposal.He provides good energy nad handles the rock as good as any other then TC. He is a huge part of the team. Fact is this team has much bigger issues then who is starting at the 2 guard.You could start him tomorrow but if we don't do a better job on the glass, defensively or at the foul line we will lose the game.

Waite, you need to re-watch the ECU game. Cobb scored 10 early then got benched for 10 minutes. He was on his way to a huge game and LD shut him down.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I think at this point we can afford to trade away some defense for a little offense. Plus, Cobb plays at the top of a matchup zone. It is almost impossible for poor defense from that spot to cost you a game.

Jacob you could start him against X to morrow but if you don't board,hit better then 38% from the foul line and take care of the ball it will not matter.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Sorry, Bearcat22. I don't care how you meant it, we're not going down that road. No big deal though, let's just keep on moving.

 

[Bulldog01]

I know I'm in the minority on this one, but it's not hard to figure out. Cobb will start once he improves his half court defense.

IMO fans will always want the offensive player to get more minutes than he gets.

Cobb plays great on ball d. Might have him confused with Caupain.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Waite, you need to re-watch the ECU game. Cobb scored 10 early then got benched for 10 minutes. He was on his way to a huge game and LD shut him down.

I saw the game. I'm not saying Cobb isn't a valuable part of the Team. What I'm saying is him starting or not is not he problem we are having. We have also played very well with him coming off the bench when i might add we boarded, played d and hit some free throws.

 

[Bulldog01]

Waite, you need to re-watch the ECU game. Cobb scored 10 early then got benched for 10 minutes. He was on his way to a huge game and LD shut him down.

did he ever say why?

 

[Bulldog01]

I saw the game. I'm not saying Cobb isn't a valuable part of the Team. What I'm saying is him starting or not is not he problem we are having. We have also played very well with him coming off the bench when i might add we boarded, played d and hit some free throws.

Waite I get what your saying. 100% correct no matter line up you hit free throws or rebound we win against Tulane and ecu. No matter if we make tournament or not were not winning a game with both Sanders and kj still starting.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

did he ever say why?

I never heard an explanation. God forbid we let the guy who is on fire play 36 minutes...

 

[Bearcat22]

That's not young silly. It doesn't take you months to know where go on court. Juco guys don't look lost on court to stop having a programmed brain. Not rebounding, missing free throws not hustling has nothing to do with youth.

I think this is where we differ, all the things you mention above that are lacking are in my opinion are symptomatic of inconsistent play, focus, not handling success, playing down to opponents level - which could be attributed to less experience, youth, and maturity. Parker has been mentioned in another thread and he's a good example of a player growing up. Jackson in his Sr. year is another who matured.

 

[Bearcat22]

Sorry, Bearcat22. I don't care how you meant it, we're not going down that road. No big deal though, let's just keep on moving.

fair enough

 

[coachpipe]

Parker was bottom of barrel recruit. Our guys now are top 150 it shouldn't take until mid junior year before you look like college basketball player. Moore and Mormon have skills right now just not best of systems and coaching. Parker really had to put a lot of EXTRA time in gym to be average player. He had right system and coaching. Moore and Mormon going to continue to look like shit until you open up playbook. Let em run loose...

Composite 133 overall... 3 star recruit

http://247sports.com/Player/JaQuon-Parker-7633?Institution=22283

And my point still stands. Ill wait to judge. People can say recruit the right guys, or whatever it is you want to say, thats fine, thats you. we are starting to realize more and more the star system has its outliers. Some hit the nail, some dont. Its been that way forever. People like Telfair and then people like Gordon Haywood(composite #400). A 17 year old kid will tell you anything you want to hear when he feels wanted (which a coach recruiting you makes you feel wanted) Coaches say alot of things. This gets into the 17 year olds head. Sometimes they hear what they want to hear...As in, it may take you a few years but we believe we can get you to All American status(they hear all american status and not a few years). And believe me, when a kid is head honcho at his HS the adjustment period isnt something they anticipate. And not having experienced that before, NOONE knows how he will react to the situation. You can say, well dont recruit that kid, and thats fine. But some kids learn differently and if you think you understand 17 year olds, well you should find a way to monitize that, because thats like saying you understand everything there is about women. Its not like UC is the only university experiencing transfers or busts or underrated gems. Its college basketball, There are millions of high school basketball players out there. Its not as easy as you may think

 

[TheLongHaul]

It worked against SMU, UCONN and others on the schedule. But it won't work now if we don't rebound,make free throws and take care of the ball. My understanding of the game is fine. If you think starting Cobb is the cure all to what is ailing this team it may be you who is lacking in basketball understanding. By the way I'm not giving you any cliches. Have not said that once. I'm also not saying I wouldn't like to get off to a good strat in games. What I'm saying Is that is not the reason we are not playing well.

In the one game Cobb started did we win? Cobb is not just a back up to Caupain even though on this team that is a huge role considering how we Turn the ball over. It is also huge because of the style we play. Cobb is also a 2 guard that provides valuable minutes there as well. He has earned his minutes and fills both roles very well. He is far from what ails this team and his insertion into the starting line up is no gurantee we will be better for it if we don't fix the issues I mentioned as well.

Here is what you said: "All this talk about who starts and who comes off the bench is BS". It isn't BS, plain and simple. And never once did I say it was the cure or if he'd start it would guarantee wins. But..he is the better player and slow starts affect the game in a multitude of ways. Not seeing that shows a lack of understanding of the game.

They scored 13 freaking points against Tulane in the first half. Offense is the issue. Turnovers are hard to cure. They always are. Teams that turn the ball over a lot earlier in the season tend to be that way at the end. It usually signifies a deeper issue, such as bad dribbling and passing skills which are hard to fix.

Rebounding is the same thing. Mick and Larry talk all the time about offensive rebounding like it's just something you can go out and do. It's a cop out for a bad offense. Guess what, other teams know how to box out, and when you have to rely on offensive rebounding you have issues.

I know I'm in the minority on this one, but it's not hard to figure out. Cobb will start once he improves his half court defense.

IMO fans will always want the offensive player to get more minutes than he gets.

If, and it's a big if, KJ is a better defender, it isn't by much.

Another quick point. In the game Cobb started he shot the ball well. We lead at half time 23-18. Hardly a fast start. In the game he had 4 turnovers and 2 assist.

Look I know everyone posting here wants the cats to do well. Certainly I do. My opinion is that to do that we need to get back to the things that made us successful this year. Good D, improved foul shooting and cut down on
TO's. If I thought Starting Cobb would accomplish all that I would be all for it. I like having a player with his versitility at my disposal.He provides good energy nad handles the rock as good as any other then TC. He is a huge part of the team. Fact is this team has much bigger issues then who is starting at the 2 guard.You could start him tomorrow but if we don't do a better job on the glass, defensively or at the foul line we will lose the game.

LOL - Cobb started the game and UC was up 14-4 and Cobb had 10 of those points. Yes they still lost, mostly because LD doesn't have a clue on how to use substitutions and he let ECU back in the game by sitting Cobb for the rest of the first half.

Defense hasn't been the issue. They scored 13 points against Tulane. The only reason they have been in any games this year is defense. Their defense was fine against Tulane. The offense sucks and has sucked for years now.

 

[waterhead]

I have no issue playing Cobb and TC together more. If the game sets up that way fine. You don't need to start Cobb and risk foul issues to get him on the floor more with TC.

Yes you do need to start them together because if you don't bring in Cobb for the first 5 minutes of each half (like they do now) he is going to miss 10 minutes of his playing minutes without TC right off the bat. Then you factor in the 5-10 minutes TC must sit out to rest and that is 15-20 minutes of Cobb's 20-25 minutes. You are not going to start someone (KJ) and then sub after 1 minute...you are going to let them play 5 minutes unless they do something stupid. So yes...you need to start them together (at least one half) if they are going to see significant minutes together. Right now they are not starting Cobb either half....and he's not coming in for 4-5 minutes.

Foul trouble has been a non issue with these two.

 

[ucswais]

I think at this point we can afford to trade away some defense for a little offense. Plus, Cobb plays at the top of a matchup zone. It is almost impossible for poor defense from that spot to cost you a game.

Hey if they want to make that trade off, I'm fine with it, but I don't think this is news that they value defense over offense. I disagree strongly with the idea that Cobb and Johnson are similar defensively.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Yes you do need to start them together because if you don't bring in Cobb for the first 5 minutes of each half (like they do now) he is going to miss 10 minutes of his playing minutes without TC right off the bat. Then you factor in the 5-10 minutes TC must sit out to rest and that is 15-20 minutes of Cobb's 20-25 minutes. You are not going to start someone (KJ) and then sub after 1 minute...you are going to let them play 5 minutes unless they do something stupid. So yes...you need to start them together (at least one half) if they are going to see significant minutes together. Right now they are not starting Cobb either half....and he's not coming in for 4-5 minutes.

Foul trouble has been a non issue with these two.

Its not been a issue because they manage it. Again we did not lose against Tulane and ECU because Cobb played his minutes off the bench. We didn't beat SMU twice because he didn't start either. We play well when we board,hit free throws and take care of the ball. Strating cobb or bringing him off the bench carrys very little weight in the outcome of the gqme if we don't do the things i mentioned.

 

[waterhead]

Its not been a issue because they manage it. Again we did not lose against Tulane and ECU because Cobb played his minutes off the bench. We didn't beat SMU twice because he didn't start either. We play well when we board,hit free throws and take care of the ball. Strating cobb or bringing him off the bench carrys very little weight in the outcome of the gqme if we don't do the things i mentioned.

I am not arguing your other points. In fact I agreed with them on my first response. I am talking about a completely different topic.

I am talking about trying to figure out what the most effect lineup rotation is. I happen to think we should try Cobb with the starting lineup to see what spending more time with them does for the team. We all agree rebounding, turnovers, and shooting FT's are important. You have mentioned it like 10 times now...we get it. There is more to coaching than just those 3 things and some of the rest of us are discussing those other things.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I am not arguing your other points. In fact I agreed with them on my first response. I am talking about a completely different topic.

I am talking about trying to figure out what the most effect lineup rotation is. I happen to think we should try Cobb with the starting lineup to see what spending more time with them does for the team. We all agree rebounding, turnovers, and shooting FT's are important. You have mentioned it like 10 times now...we get it. There is more to coaching than just those 3 things and some of the rest of us are discussing those other things.

Ok. I still perfer Cobb come off the bench for the many reasons i have given.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Its not been a issue because they manage it. Again we did not lose against Tulane and ECU because Cobb played his minutes off the bench. We didn't beat SMU twice because he didn't start either. We play well when we board,hit free throws and take care of the ball. Strating cobb or bringing him off the bench carrys very little weight in the outcome of the gqme if we don't do the things i mentioned.

Guards rarely run into foul trouble, especially on a consistent basis. Even if they did, you don't start one of your best players because they may get into foul trouble.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Guards rarely run into foul trouble, especially on a consistent basis. Even if they did, you don't start one of your best players because they may get into foul trouble.

Coaches have done this forever. It is easier for them to manage the game. That is why there is a 6th man award.