Rotation/Depth Chart

[jacobkdoyle]

Ok. I still perfer Cobb come off the bench for the many reasons i have given.

Even if Cobb doesn't start the 1st half, why is it just a given that he won't start the 2nd half either? Can you at least agree that if neither Cobb or Caupain gets into foul trouble that they could at very least start the 2nd half together?

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Even if Cobb doesn't start the 1st half, why is it just a given that he won't start the 2nd half either? Can you at least agree that if neither Cobb or Caupain gets into foul trouble that they could at very least start the 2nd half together?

Jacob, here are the season stats for both players. I really don't think starting Cobb is a huge issue as opposed to why I wouldn't start him.Here are the numbers. Other then a little higher shooting percentage they are very close with KJ probably a bit better defensive player. Being that I would be giving up the flexibility that Cobb provides by playing two positions I don't see why it would have the impact you think it would. Now if you want to give some more minutes to Morman based on him contiuing to improve I'm fine with that but again Cobb not starting is not the issue that is wrong with this team. I manged people for many years and i don't make changes to make changes.


Farad Cobb

25

22.3

7.9

2.4

1.4

0.9

0.1

1.1

.381

.813

.333





Kevin Johnson

25

22.8

6.1

1.3

1.4

0.9

0.2

1.5

.349

.677

.309

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Cobb = more points, more rebs, more 3s, less TO, better FG%, better FT%, more FT attempts, better 3 pt %, same # of assists...all in less minutes

KJ = 1 made shot every 11+ minutes, and his 2nd highest stat behind points is TO

It isn't even close. And believe me, I wish it was bc I bet Bearcatboy on it.

 

[rogerOH]

I am one of those that would like to see cobb and caupain together for long stretches but more importently why is caupain not getting more shots(47%fg/40%3ptfg) I just think by playing cobb at the point caupain could get more shots

 

[TheLongHaul]

Coaches have done this forever. It is easier for them to manage the game. That is why there is a 6th man award.

Ummm, no they don't, that's ridiculous. And that isn't the reason why there is a 6th man award.

I'd start to question whether you follow basketball but I know you are just grasping at straws for the sake of arguing in defense of the coaches. First the lineup doesn't matter (obviously it does). Then they do it because Cobb needs to backup Troy (I said a month ago this was a stupid argument). Then it's because of foul trouble (which is almost as absurd). Then when asked about starting the 2nd half when neither are in foul trouble you change your whole argument to saying there isn't much difference between Cobb and KJ.

This team has many issues. Cobb isn't the savior. But he is an improvement and this team could use all the improvements they can get, even if they are baby steps.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Cobb = more points, more rebs, more 3s, less TO, better FG%, better FT%, more FT attempts, better 3 pt %, same # of assists...all in less minutes

KJ = 1 made shot every 11+ minutes, and his 2nd highest stat behind points is TO

It isn't even close. And believe me, I wish it was bc I bet Bearcatboy on it.

Jacob the stats are very close as are the minutes 22.8- 22.3.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Ummm, no they don't, that's ridiculous. And that isn't the reason why there is a 6th man award.

I'd start to question whether you follow basketball but I know you are just grasping at straws for the sake of arguing in defense of the coaches. First the lineup doesn't matter (obviously it does). Then they do it because Cobb needs to backup Troy (I said a month ago this was a stupid argument). Then it's because of foul trouble (which is almost as absurd). Then when asked about starting the 2nd half when neither are in foul trouble you change your whole argument to saying there isn't much difference between Cobb and KJ.

This team has many issues. Cobb isn't the savior. But he is an improvement and this team could use all the improvements they can get, even if they are baby steps.

Yes They do and it is a reason they do. You questioning whether i follow basketball is not a big concern. I don't have to argue for the coaches. See ya Long Haul. It is obvious we won't agree and I won't waste time trying to rebute your comment. Have a good day.

 

[waterhead]

Jacob, here are the season stats for both players. I really don't think starting Cobb is a huge issue as opposed to why I wouldn't start him.Here are the numbers. Other then a little higher shooting percentage they are very close with KJ probably a bit better defensive player. Being that I would be giving up the flexibility that Cobb provides by playing two positions I don't see why it would have the impact you think it would. Now if you want to give some more minutes to Morman based on him contiuing to improve I'm fine with that but again Cobb not starting is not the issue that is wrong with this team. I manged people for many years and i don't make changes to make changes.


Farad Cobb

25

22.3

7.9

2.4

1.4

0.9

0.1

1.1

.381

.813

.333





Kevin Johnson

25

22.8

6.1

1.3

1.4

0.9

0.2

1.5

.349

.677

.309

It's not that simple.

KJ has probably played close to 75% of his minutes with the starting 5 (or at least with Caupain on the floor) who have better +/- numbers as a unit. In other words they make the other players better around them. Cobb probably plays 25% of his minutes without TC and many of them without the starting 5. He has played as well or better than KJ in spite of not playing with the most productive unit most of the time.

I am not pulling numbers out of my butt...I have looked at their sub patterns for the games and can see when they each play and when they come out of the game.

Also, IMO you don't manage a foul issue that isn't likely to come up but once in 20 games. You deal with that on an as needed basis.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

It's not that simple.

KJ has probably played close to 75% of his minutes with the starting 5 (or at least with Caupain on the floor) who have better +/- numbers as a unit. In other words they make the other players better around them. Cobb probably plays 25% of his minutes without TC and many of them without the starting 5. He has played as well or better than KJ in spite of not playing with the most productive unit most of the time.

I am not pulling numbers out of my butt...I have looked at their sub patterns for the games and can see when they each play and when they come out of the game.

Also, IMO you don't manage a foul issue that isn't likely to come up but once in 20 games. You deal with that on an as needed basis.

Waterhead if you start TC and Cobb and 1 gets 2 fouls and you sub for him, does the other one play the whole first half without a rest. Do you think it is that rare that 1 of your starting Guards who also happen to be your only PG's could get two fouls in first half. If TC picked up a early foul would you be a bit uneasy that your only other PG would have to play the whole first half if he picked up another. Who else would run the PG.please don't say KJ or Morman. Would you put the other one who had 2 fouls back in game and chance him picking up a third. Would you run without a PG. How about in second half if you started them both and the one with 2 picked up a third early in half. What then? Do you play him until he picks up a 4th. If you sit him who subs for the other one who logged a bunch of minutes in the 1st half. Do you think it is that uncommon that one couldn't pick up 2 fouls in a half and one in the early stages of the second half.Is it possible that they could get a charging foul handling ball so much. Every coach in America sits a starter in first half once he gets 2 fouls. He also sits him if he picks up his 3rd early in the second half. On this team with how bad we handle the ball I can not chance getting myself in that spot for the difference between Cobb and KJ. especially with Morman able to get a few minutes of KJ's time as well. It is not a issue of I like KJ starting over Cobb. If I had some one else to run the point Cobb would get more minutes. As a coach it is just a better way for me to control my substitution patterns and not play people out of postition. It also isn't that I don't value a fast start. Change is not always a bad thing but it needs to be well thought out controlled and should be done understanding all the ramifications as well as the potential pluses..

 

[rogerOH]

IF that happened ,you have all the t.v. timeouts and you could also call a t.o. at strategic times to give the pg a rest.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Waterhead if you start TC and Cobb and 1 gets 2 fouls and you sub for him, does the other on play the whole first half without a rest. Who else would run the PG. Would you put the other one had 2 fouls back in game and chance him picking up a third. Would you run without a PG. How about in second half if you started them both and the one with 2 picked up a third early in half. What then do you play him until he picks up a 4th. if you sit him who subs for the other one who logged a bunch of minutes in the 1st half. Doyou think it is that uncommon that one couldn't pick upo 2 fouls in a half and one in the early stages of the second half.

You are way too hung up on this. Neither one of these guys has fouled out a single time in 25 games. Neither one. In 25 games. Has. Ever. Fouled. Out. Neither one. 25 games in. It hasn't happened. Not one time. For either one. At all. A single time. So to plan everything you do (and especially when the plan isn't working) around this idea that maybe, possibly there could be a game where this might happen is crazy. Obviously nothing can change your mind, so I'm done with this conversation.

 

[waterhead]

Waterhead if you start TC and Cobb and 1 gets 2 fouls and you sub for him, does the other one play the whole first half without a rest. Who else would run the PG. Would you put the other one who had 2 fouls back in game and chance him picking up a third. Would you run without a PG. How about in second half if you started them both and the one with 2 picked up a third early in half. What then? Do you play him until he picks up a 4th. If you sit him who subs for the other one who logged a bunch of minutes in the 1st half. Do you think it is that uncommon that one couldn't pick up 2 fouls in a half and one in the early stages of the second half.Is it possible that they could get a charging foul handling ball so much. Every coach in America sits a starter in first half once he gets 2 fouls. He also sits him if he picks up his 3rd early in the second half. On this team with how bad we handle the ball I can not chance getting myself in that spot for the difference between Cobb and KJ. especially with Morman able to get a few minutes of KJ's time as well. It is not a issue of I like KJ starting over Cobb. If I had some one else to run the point Cobb would get more minutes.

I understand the reason for managing foul trouble. I am telling you it is a non issue. In the unlikely scenario it does happen it can be managed. I would be fine playing Cobb with 2 fouls in the first half. As far as I can tell he hasn't had more than 3 all year. I would sit Caupain with 2 fouls.

In the extremely unlikely scenario that you end up with TC with 2 and Cobb with 3 in the first half you can manage the small amount of time left with someone else...because it's not going to happen. I am also not worried about not getting enough rest. Caupain has played like 12 or 13 FULL halves already this year and it's not been because someone else was in foul trouble. If we had to make do with Cobb playing a lot of minutes...I don't think it would be a huge deal. Again...it is not a likely scenario no matter how common you think it may be. I am looking at their actual stats...not my opinion of what is common in college BB.

 

[BC21]

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Guys do you think the reason it hasn't happened is because they do manage around the possibility. Again no coach in ameririca lets his players pick up 3 fouls in first half. Nor do they put them in position to do so. Is it that hard for you to understand the Coach has weighed his options and decided that He can still get Cobb major minutes and safe guard the PG position by subbing him rather then start him? He also may think that what he would get as opposed to what he risked is not a good option.That is why you don't see it happening. Using a stat to support your position that a coach will not allow to happen in first place is not a good

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

You are way too hung up on this. Neither one of these guys has fouled out a single time in 25 games. Neither one. In 25 games. Has. Ever. Fouled. Out. Neither one. 25 games in. It hasn't happened. Not one time. For either one. At all. A single time. So to plan everything you do (and especially when the plan isn't working) around this idea that maybe, possibly there could be a game where this might happen is crazy. Obviously nothing can change your mind, so I'm done with this conversation.

Jacob not starting Cobb is not what is wrong with this team.

 

[rogerOH]

I am going to just hope that it does happen and that it does help.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

You are way too hung up on this. Neither one of these guys has fouled out a single time in 25 games. Neither one. In 25 games. Has. Ever. Fouled. Out. Neither one. 25 games in. It hasn't happened. Not one time. For either one. At all. A single time. So to plan everything you do (and especially when the plan isn't working) around this idea that maybe, possibly there could be a game where this might happen is crazy. Obviously nothing can change your mind, so I'm done with this conversation.

would you rather have a well thought out debate or the usual BS that generally goes on?

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I am going to just hope that it does happen and that it does help.

Lol. Great comment. I wish I could agree but the Coach in me won't let me.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Guys do you think the reason it hasn't happened is because they do manage around the possibility. Again no coach in ameririca lets his players pick up 3 fouls in first half. Nor do they put them in position to do so. Is it that hard for you to understand the Coach has weighed his options and decided that He can still get Cobb major minutes and safe guard the PG position by subbing him rather then start him? He also may think that what he would get as opposed to what he risked is not a good option.That is why you don't see it happening. Using a stat to support your position that a coach will not allow to happen in first place is not a good

No. No one on earth thinks it except you. Cobb averages one foul a game. Did you read that? One foul a game. So you are telling me they don't start him because they think someone that averages one foul a game might get into foul trouble?

But of course why not start DeBerry in case Clark and Ellis get in to foul trouble. Especially since they are more likely to. Why? Because it's a stupid idea.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Jacob not starting Cobb is not what is wrong with this team.

You are missing the whole point.