Rotation/Depth Chart

[WAITE HOYT 2]

No. What I mean is less turnovers and a higher shooting %. Maximize each possession. The only way we can really increase our possessions is through TO's and rebounding

we don't need to speed the game up to do that. Right?

 

[waterhead]

we don't need to speed the game up to do that. Right?

Correct...but I'm not really chiming in on that debate

 

[jacobkdoyle]

It might create more attempts, but if efficiency stays constant, it would mean about a +3 in the points column for UC.

But again, I'm not advocating for a running style. I'm advocating for a style, and then either you recruit to the style or you change your style to suit the players you've recruited. Given their inefficiency on offense, it's hard to believe Mick recruited these guys to play this style. Maybe Sanders, DeBerry and KJ, but not the rest.

Im with you. And I still prefer defense to be our staple. Just seems like with a defensive mindset and long athletes, we can still be way above average on defense if we speed things up a tad on offense. It's really just all about getting down the floor. We can still run sets and post up with Clark as much as we want to. We can also always know we that can count on getting stops down the stretch. We outscore teams on average 104.6 to 92.8 per 100 possessions. The lower # of possession, the lower the margin for error (aka we've lost 3 times this year giving up 50 or less in regulation).

 

[waterhead]

we don't need to speed the game up to do that. Right?

Doogle was talking about how you have to maximize possessions when you play a methodical style. I was just saying we aren't really doing that right now (as good as we need to)...so we need to get better at it if we want to win big games using this "methodical" style

 

[jacobkdoyle]

KJ would be fine in a uptempo system. Maybe not in the middle but filling a lane. Sanders has been more character then talent and DeBerry is a sub 5 at this point and very good at it. Fact is we have done well at the slow down grind it out style. Not Championship well but well. Could we be better, again the staff plays a style based on their assessment of their players. They watch film,the see practice and they have had a measure of success. Mick and staff play the style that he feels gives him the best chance to win. He bases that on the players he gets to come here. If you want to say he should recruit better players. I'm sure he would like to have a team of 5 stars. Unfortunitely that is not his situation. If you want to blame him for that it certainly is your right.

We did well in "grind it out" in the old Big East, but there's difference between then and now. In 2010-2011 and 2011-2012 (probably Mick's 2 best teams IMO) we averaged 69 and 68 ppg. This year's team is down at 62. We have a way easier 18 game conference schedule now too. So grinding it out is fine, but we are a step below that kind of team right now bc we're missing a few extra buckets per game. We need to find a way to pick up that slack just to get back to Sweet 16 level.

 

[TheLongHaul]

I'm not so sure the coaching staff prefers the slow down game. Mick and LD have both been saying the opposite lately.

Mick has said that since he first arrived on campus. Saying and doing are two completely different things.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Doogle was talking about how you have to maximize possessions when you play a methodical style. I was just saying we aren't really doing that right now (as good as we need to)...so we need to get better at it if we want to win big games using this "methodical" style

got you. I agree we are not a very efficient offense. We really lack a outside game. We have killed teams in the paint. When our wings knock down a few shots we usually win. Think Temple. KJ and Cobb are on and off,Morman is a slasher not a outside threat, Sanders has not been good,Shaq is a slasher as well who I agree with people who say he is better in open court game.TC as PG is reluctant to shoot and he is our highest percentage shooter. If we could be a bit more consistent from the wings we would have at least 3 or 4 more wins. Next year hopefully Jenifer will back up TC and Cobb at point enabling TC to play off the ball more and Evans will be the real deal at the 3.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Mick has said that since he first arrived on campus. Saying and doing are two completely different things.

I saw it during the Houston game. Let's hope we stay on that message.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Mick has said that since he first arrived on campus. Saying and doing are two completely different things.

i think he would like to run and pressure he obviously doesn't feel the players he recruited can do that.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

i think he would like to run and pressure he obviously doesn't feel the players he recruited can do that.

At some point the players gotta go do it. I am hopeful (maybe too hopeful) that Shaq can lead this charge. Then we can officially name our transition game "The Shaq Attack".

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

At some point the players gotta go do it. I am hopeful (maybe too hopeful) that Shaq can lead this charge. Then we can officially name our transition game "The Shaq Attack".

if Shaq can improve the other parts of his game enough to stay on the floor and Clark continues to be a beast on the glass he may get a chance to get out on the break a bit. Jacob he needs to be smart as well. A couple of big issues with Shaq that people fail to remember is after one of his rare good games is his decision making on the break needs to improve. I have seen him attack many 3 on 1's when he has been the 1. He needs to be better on the offensive boards. He also and this is one of my pet peeves with him is, he needs to try and draw contact when attacking not avoid it. That leads to foul problems for opposition and FT attempts for us.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

if Shaq can improve the other parts of his game enough to stay on the floor and Clark continues to be a beast on the glass he may get a chance to get out on the break a bit. Jacob he needs to be smart as well. A couple of big issues with Shaq that people fail to remember is after one of his rare good games is his decision making on the break needs to improve. I have seen him attack many 3 on 1's when he has been the 1. He needs to be better on the offensive boards. He also and this is one of my pet peeves with him is, he needs to try and draw contact when attacking not avoid it. That leads to foul problems for opposition and FT attempts for us.

I'm definitely with you on the offensive rebounding. He did have 8 FT attempts last game, so that's a good sign. Honestly, we've killed Shaq his whole career for not being aggressive enough, so I can live with him making the mistake of going 1 on 3. Not all the time of course, but it just shows that he's trying to make something happen instead of thinking too much. I can live with that.

 

[Bulldog01]

if Shaq can improve the other parts of his game enough to stay on the floor and Clark continues to be a beast on the glass he may get a chance to get out on the break a bit. Jacob he needs to be smart as well. A couple of big issues with Shaq that people fail to remember is after one of his rare good games is his decision making on the break needs to improve. I have seen him attack many 3 on 1's when he has been the 1. He needs to be better on the offensive boards. He also and this is one of my pet peeves with him is, he needs to try and draw contact when attacking not avoid it. That leads to foul problems for opposition and FT attempts for us.

I've never seen Shaq not attack on break. He's got better lately with his attacking 3 on 1. His dunk in X game was 3 on 1

 

[Bulldog01]

It might create more attempts, but if efficiency stays constant, it would mean about a +3 in the points column for UC.

But again, I'm not advocating for a running style. I'm advocating for a style, and then either you recruit to the style or you change your style to suit the players you've recruited. Given their inefficiency on offense, it's hard to believe Mick recruited these guys to play this style. Maybe Sanders, DeBerry and KJ, but not the rest.

Sanders and KJ supposed be defensive stoppers/glue guys. DeBerry space eater

 

[Bulldog01]

I'm definitely with you on the offensive rebounding. He did have 8 FT attempts last game, so that's a good sign. Honestly, we've killed Shaq his whole career for not being aggressive enough, so I can live with him making the mistake of going 1 on 3. Not all the time of course, but it just shows that he's trying to make something happen instead of thinking too much. I can live with that.

lmao could you imagine if Shaq did rebound. He'll try coast to coast every time

 

[L-T]

Funny how for much of this season, many have been calling for Cobb to start and for us to get out in transition and push the pace more. The naysayers have argued..."Don't you think the coaches know what to do? After all, they see them in practice every day." Now, as we approach the end of the season and tournament time, Cobb has finally cracked the starting lineup, and we're suddenly getting out in transition and speeding up the offensive pace. And....surprisingly (or maybe not?), we score 83 points and blow a team out by 23 points....a very similar result to the Temple game when we also started pushing the pace and getting out in transition.

Yesterday, I warned that playing up-tempo might result in the dreaded "60 point" threshold being eclipsed by our oponent, and lo and behold, it happened. Hopefully the coaches didn't toss and turn all night long thinking about the dreaded "60". Because a lot of fans slept like babies for a change. That game was fun to watch, and it showed what we're capable of if the coaches let them play. We've seen enough of the slow-down to know we don't play that style very well. People will argue that we've won all these games over these last 4 years, so obviously the slow-down works! The problem is, Mick has never shown us the other style so we can see what it might do. Maybe we would have won more games. He has given us glimpses against the pre-league patsies every year, but by the start of the league play, we're always back to "Old Faithful", the slow down, melt your eyeballs offense. We were warned..."If we speed up, we give more possessions to the other team." I say...so what? We always have a good defense. I would rather maximize my offense, and take my chances with my great defense to get me through the added possessions of the other team.

In closing, my son called me and said he was listening to the game on the radio last night and early in the game, Dan Hoard and Chuck were talking about being at practice the last two days and the team worked almost exclusively on taking the ball off the rebound or off of a made basket and getting the ball to the offensive side in 6 seconds or under. Interesting how it took the coaches so long to get to this point, but give them credit for finally seeing it. Someone said Mick had indicated on his radio show that it pisses him off when we don't push the ball, so maybe the coaches have seen it all along, and the players are to blame. Whatever the reason, its good to see the changes happening and hopefully it's not too late. Bottom line, pushing the pace got us more high percentage shots, which weren't rushed as the shot clock expired, and look what happened to our shooting percentages. Here's hoping this continues for the rest of the season. Great game!

 

[bearcat jeff]

I agree with you LT, whatever the reason it is good to see and the two starting guards had 11 assists between them.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I agree with you LT, whatever the reason it is good to see and the two starting guards had 11 assists between them.

The Cobb/Caupain thing is really nice. They compliment each other well. And it starts with being smart players for both of them. I love the starting 5 we're running out there. We really can be a dangerous team down the stretch.

 

[Bulldog01]

Funny how for much of this season, many have been calling for Cobb to start and for us to get out in transition and push the pace more. The naysayers have argued..."Don't you think the coaches know what to do? After all, they see them in practice every day." Now, as we approach the end of the season and tournament time, Cobb has finally cracked the starting lineup, and we're suddenly getting out in transition and speeding up the offensive pace. And....surprisingly (or maybe not?), we score 83 points and blow a team out by 23 points....a very similar result to the Temple game when we also started pushing the pace and getting out in transition.

Yesterday, I warned that playing up-tempo might result in the dreaded "60 point" threshold being eclipsed by our oponent, and lo and behold, it happened. Hopefully the coaches didn't toss and turn all night long thinking about the dreaded "60". Because a lot of fans slept like babies for a change. That game was fun to watch, and it showed what we're capable of if the coaches let them play. We've seen enough of the slow-down to know we don't play that style very well. People will argue that we've won all these games over these last 4 years, so obviously the slow-down works! The problem is, Mick has never shown us the other style so we can see what it might do. Maybe we would have won more games. He has given us glimpses against the pre-league patsies every year, but by the start of the league play, we're always back to "Old Faithful", the slow down, melt your eyeballs offense. We were warned..."If we speed up, we give more possessions to the other team." I say...so what? We always have a good defense. I would rather maximize my offense, and take my chances with my great defense to get me through the added possessions of the other team.

In closing, my son called me and said he was listening to the game on the radio last night and early in the game, Dan Hoard and Chuck were talking about being at practice the last two days and the team worked almost exclusively on taking the ball off the rebound or off of a made basket and getting the ball to the offensive side in 6 seconds or under. Interesting how it took the coaches so long to get to this point, but give them credit for finally seeing it. Someone said Mick had indicated on his radio show that it pisses him off when we don't push the ball, so maybe the coaches have seen it all along, and the players are to blame. Whatever the reason, its good to see the changes happening and hopefully it's not too late. Bottom line, pushing the pace got us more high percentage shots, which weren't rushed as the shot clock expired, and look what happened to our shooting percentages. Here's hoping this continues for the rest of the season. Great game!

Mick been on here a lot lately

 

[L-T]

Mick been on here a lot lately

You know Bulldog, I wouldn't be surprised....lol.

All credit should go to Jacob and Waite, and yourself as well. You guys all kept this debate going for what is now 44 pages, and look what happened.