Rotation/Depth Chart

[jacobkdoyle]

i agree with you that Shaq wold benefit from a push the ball stand point and that his offensive game is geared that way. I don't agreee that the other players would benefit form it. Also there is much more to the game then scoring. Shaq has been here 4 years and his handle,shot,strenght,rebounding and defense all need work.

The whole roster has been inconsistent another point we can agree on.

For Shaq, I'm accepting that he's probably not ever going to become the most complete player. And this team needs points. So if only does one thing, and that one thing is get a few easy buckets, that's not a bad place to start.

 

[handwaver]

For Shaq, I'm accepting that he's probably not ever going to become the most complete player. And this team needs points. So if only does one thing, and that one thing is get a few easy buckets, that's not a bad place to start.

I dont mind if he gives up 10 pts. as long as he scored 15

 

[L-T]

i agree with you that Shaq wold benefit from a push the ball stand point and that his offensive game is geared that way. I don't agreee that the other players would benefit form it. Also there is much more to the game then scoring. Shaq has been here 4 years and his handle,shot,strenght,rebounding and defense all need work.

The whole roster has been inconsistent another point we can agree on.

Based on what I've seen this year, the players I think would benefit from pushing the tempo would be Shaq, Ellis, Clark, TC, Cobb, and Morman....maybe even KJ. If you're telling me that watching them run this slow down mess that we run is actually prettier than what it would be pushing the pace more, I don't know where you're coming from on that idea. When your team turns the ball over a lot, why then would I want to sit back and pass the ball around for the full shot clock. The more we pass the ball around, the higher the chance for an errant pass, and the higher the chance for a rushed low percentage shot as time runs out, which is exactly what we see every game.

If we push the pace a little, we may not be able to claim we're top 10 in opponents scoring average anymore, and maybe that is why we don't run more. We have to always be able to continue to claim the old "defense and rebounding" identity and running would, God forbid, possibly allow our opponents to score over 60 pts. I certinly liked what I saw when we ran against Temple. We haven't done it often, but when we have, the players seem to do it more efficiently than when they sit back in the slow-down offense we've become accustomed to watching.

 

[handwaver]

Based on what I've seen this year, the players I think would benefit from pushing the tempo would be Shaq, Ellis, Clark, TC, Cobb, and Morman....maybe even KJ. If you're telling me that watching them run this slow down mess that we run is actually prettier than what it would be pushing the pace more, I don't know where you're coming from on that idea. When your team turns the ball over a lot, why then would I want to sit back and pass the ball around for the full shot clock. The more we pass the ball around, the higher the chance for an errant pass, and the higher the chance for a rushed low percentage shot as time runs out, which is exactly what we see every game.

If we push the pace a little, we may not be able to claim we're top 10 in opponents scoring average anymore, and maybe that is why we don't run more. We have to always be able to continue to claim the old "defense and rebounding" identity and running would, God forbid, possibly allow our opponents to score over 60 pts. I certinly liked what I saw when we ran against Temple. We haven't done it often, but when we have, the players seem to do it more efficiently than when they sit back in the slow-down offense we've become accustomed to watching.

Obviously you want a balance between offense and defense, but when you look at the stats, they tend to favor defense, at least this year. Top 3 teams in scoring: BYU, Northwestern State & VMI - top 3 in defense: Virginia, Kentucky & San Diego State. Va also has 3rd fewest turnovers

 

[Bulldog01]

I wouldn't disagree. In fact, I live out of Cincinnati and when my friends here check in on UC bc they know I'm a fan, I know they don't want to hear the whole story so I just tell them about Caupain and Clark.

Clark and Ellis for me.

 

[Bulldog01]

Shaq is not a slow the ball down and run shot clock kind of guy. When the game speeds up, which many of us have called for, Shaq comes alive. It's my opinion that others come alive as well.

when you struggle to score 25 a half nobodies alive

 

[Bulldog01]

i agree with you that Shaq wold benefit from a push the ball stand point and that his offensive game is geared that way. I don't agreee that the other players would benefit form it. Also there is much more to the game then scoring. Shaq has been here 4 years and his handle,shot,strenght,rebounding and defense all need work.

The whole roster has been inconsistent another point we can agree on.

If Shaq was complete player he wouldn't be here right now.

 

[waterhead]

i agree with you that Shaq wold benefit from a push the ball stand point and that his offensive game is geared that way. I don't agreee that the other players would benefit form it. Also there is much more to the game then scoring. Shaq has been here 4 years and his handle,shot,strenght,rebounding and defense all need work.

The whole roster has been inconsistent another point we can agree on.

I am not going to go overboard here but I will point out a few things. I think I have seen Shaq come alive the past few games. He's cut down on the out of control moves a little. One of his main problems in the past has been once he makes a big play he gets super aggressive and gets out of control. I did not see that Shaq in the last game and it was a pleasant surprise.

I think he has pretty darn good handles for a guy his height. Now he may go WAY too fast sometimes but his handles are just fine. As for his shooting, other than the 3 bigs, he is right there next in line with TC as far as FG%. FT's are bad and he shouldn't be shooting many 3's. In terms of rebounding he is playing a perimeter position so it's not that bad really. Per minute he is next in line behind the bigs. When he plays the 4 he is basically out of position anyway so his weight isn't a major concern.

His D is serviceable or he wouldn't be playing as many minutes.

All that being said of course he can improve in ALL of these areas...just like anyone. I'm optimistic he's starting to improve a little on knowing how his skill set fits into our game plan...and when to be aggressive and when to back off.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I am not going to go overboard here but I will point out a few things. I think I have seen Shaq come alive the past few games. He's cut down on the out of control moves a little. One of his main problems in the past has been once he makes a big play he gets super aggressive and gets out of control. I did not see that Shaq in the last game and it was a pleasant surprise.

I think he has pretty darn good handles for a guy his height. Now he may go WAY too fast sometimes but his handles are just fine. As for his shooting, other than the 3 bigs, he is right there next in line with TC as far as FG%. FT's are bad and he shouldn't be shooting many 3's. In terms of rebounding he is playing a perimeter position so it's not that bad really. Per minute he is next in line behind the bigs. When he plays the 4 he is basically out of position anyway so his weight isn't a major concern.

His D is serviceable or he wouldn't be playing as many minutes.

All that being said of course he can improve in ALL of these areas...just like anyone. I'm optimistic he's starting to improve a little on knowing how his skill set fits into our game plan...and when to be aggressive and when to back off.

Speaking of knowing when to be aggressive and when to back off, I like the decisions Cobb has been making as the PG. The push the tempo thing isn't just fly down the floor and shoot whatever. And I've seen Cobb shoot transition 3s as much as I've seen him pull the ball back out so he doesn't force the issue. I really trust his instincts. IMO we have a number of guys that can benefit from being on the floor with Cobb, Shaq and Clark.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I dont mind if he gives up 10 pts. as long as he scored 15

That ratio suits me but that hasn't been the case most nights. i hope your right.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Based on what I've seen this year, the players I think would benefit from pushing the tempo would be Shaq, Ellis, Clark, TC, Cobb, and Morman....maybe even KJ. If you're telling me that watching them run this slow down mess that we run is actually prettier than what it would be pushing the pace more, I don't know where you're coming from on that idea. When your team turns the ball over a lot, why then would I want to sit back and pass the ball around for the full shot clock. The more we pass the ball around, the higher the chance for an errant pass, and the higher the chance for a rushed low percentage shot as time runs out, which is exactly what we see every game.

If we push the pace a little, we may not be able to claim we're top 10 in opponents scoring average anymore, and maybe that is why we don't run more. We have to always be able to continue to claim the old "defense and rebounding" identity and running would, God forbid, possibly allow our opponents to score over 60 pts. I certinly liked what I saw when we ran against Temple. We haven't done it often, but when we have, the players seem to do it more efficiently than when they sit back in the slow-down offense we've become accustomed to watching.

L-T as we have discussed more then once I would also from a fans perspective enjoy a faster paced game. Seems the trend in College hoops is going the other way unfortunitely. When I look at the Cats overall record when holding opponents under 60 points the record is quite impressive over all.If we can speed the game up and still have the same efficency in terms of wins I'm fine running the floor a bit more. The issue is would we be more effective from a won/lost perspective trying to speed things up a bit to score more points or are we more effective slowing things down and playing a limited possesion grind it out style. Hard to say without a good sample size to compare but the coaching staff seems to think the slow down game works best.

 

[Doogle]

Either you have to a)commit to a style and recruit players to that style, like Wisconsin does; b)adapt your style to the players you've recruited (I believe Huggs was pretty adept at this); c) find players that can play a number of ways or recruit a diversity of players to play both halfcourt and fullcourt.

I guess the question is: what style does Mick want to play? Based on how they've played since he arrived, I'd say a plodding halfcourt game vis a vi Virginia, but the players he's recruited don't really fit that style. To play a more methodical style you absolutely have to maximize possessions and this team doesn't really do that.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Either you have to a)commit to a style and recruit players to that style, like Wisconsin does; b)adapt your style to the players you've recruited (I believe Huggs was pretty adept at this); c) find players that can play a number of ways or recruit a diversity of players to play both halfcourt and fullcourt.

I guess the question is: what style does Mick want to play? Based on how they've played since he arrived, I'd say a plodding halfcourt game vis a vi Virginia, but the players he's recruited don't really fit that style. To play a more methodical style you absolutely have to maximize possessions and this team doesn't really do that.

I guess I would have to ask why you think they are not maximizing possessions.They have won lots more games then they have lost. The question is would they be more effective pushing the pace.Playing the style of ball has got them in the tourney how many times in a row? What most people on this board think is that if we pushed the ball we would win more games. I guess I would have to ask why? The coaching staff sees them everyday and has decided the best chance to win is a slow defensive grind it out style. They have won a bunch of games using that style. Have they won a Championship. Well they have won a share of a league title but no NCAA title. Without committing to a uptempo style there is no way of knowing the answer to that question. We might make a small adjustment but we won't be undoing a season worth of work with 4 games to go and the tourney bid at stake.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

L-T as we have discussed more then once I would also from a fans perspective enjoy a faster paced game. Seems the trend in College hoops is going the other way unfortunitely. When I look at the Cats overall record when holding opponents under 60 points the record is quite impressive over all.If we can speed the game up and still have the same efficency in terms of wins I'm fine running the floor a bit more. The issue is would we be more effective from a won/lost perspective trying to speed things up a bit to score more points or are we more effective slowing things down and playing a limited possesion grind it out style. Hard to say without a good sample size to compare but the coaching staff seems to think the slow down game works best.

I'm not so sure the coaching staff prefers the slow down game. Mick and LD have both been saying the opposite lately.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I'm not so sure the coaching staff prefers the slow down game. Mick and LD have both been saying the opposite lately.

i think they would like to get some easy baskets off there Defense and on run outs but I see better then I hear.

 

[waterhead]

I guess I would have to ask why you think they are not maximizing possessions.They have won lots more games then they have lost. The question is would they be more effective pushing the pace.Playing the style of ball has got them in the tourney how many times in a row? What most people on this board think is that if we pushed the ball we would win more games. I guess I would have to ask why? The coaching staff sees them everyday and has decided the best chance to win is a slow defensive grind it out style. They have won a bunch of games using that style. Have they won a Championship. Well they have won a share of a league title but no NCAA title. Without committing to a uptempo style there is no way of knowing the answer to that question. We might make a small adjustment but we won't be undoing a season worth of work with 4 games to go and the tourney bid at stake.

Our opponents on the year are averaging 3 more shot attempts per game. We overcome that with a great D usually. If we maximized on the offensive side we would be VERY hard to beat

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Our opponents on the year are averaging 3 more shot attempts per game. We overcome that with a great D usually. If we maximized on the offensive side we would be VERY hard to beat

wouldn't that create more attempts for them as well?

 

[Doogle]

wouldn't that create more attempts for them as well?

It might create more attempts, but if efficiency stays constant, it would mean about a +3 in the points column for UC.

But again, I'm not advocating for a running style. I'm advocating for a style, and then either you recruit to the style or you change your style to suit the players you've recruited. Given their inefficiency on offense, it's hard to believe Mick recruited these guys to play this style. Maybe Sanders, DeBerry and KJ, but not the rest.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

It might create more attempts, but if efficiency stays constant, it would mean about a +3 in the points column for UC.

But again, I'm not advocating for a running style. I'm advocating for a style, and then either you recruit to the style or you change your style to suit the players you've recruited. Given their inefficiency on offense, it's hard to believe Mick recruited these guys to play this style. Maybe Sanders, DeBerry and KJ, but not the rest.

KJ would be fine in a uptempo system. Maybe not in the middle but filling a lane. Sanders has been more character then talent and DeBerry is a sub 5 at this point and very good at it. Fact is we have done well at the slow down grind it out style. Not Championship well but well. Could we be better, again the staff plays a style based on their assessment of their players. They watch film,the see practice and they have had a measure of success. Mick and staff play the style that he feels gives him the best chance to win. He bases that on the players he gets to come here. If you want to say he should recruit better players. I'm sure he would like to have a team of 5 stars. Unfortunitely that is not his situation. If you want to blame him for that it certainly is your right.

 

[waterhead]

wouldn't that create more attempts for them as well?

No. What I mean is less turnovers and a higher shooting %. Maximize each possession. The only way we can really increase our possessions is through TO's and rebounding