Yes sir
State of the team
- Thread starter [email protected]
- Start date
Help Support BearcatTalk:
I'm squarly on the fence as far as the state of the team is concerned. The streak of NCAA appearances is great. We're one of 11. No matter what stat we're talking about, if we're one of the Top 11, that is where I want to be. I want to be consistently ranked in the top 20....which would give us a top 5 seed in the NCAA annually. I want a top 20 recruiting class most years. I would like a sweet 16 team or better most years....or at least every so often. I want a decent share of league and conference championships.
We don't currently occupy many of the things cited above....other than the streak of NCAA appearances. Our league has been disrespected for two straight years, and holds no relevence in the national picture. We're hanging on by a thread of hope that we may be snatched away by a power 5 conference at some point, but what if one of the other decent programs in our conference is the one snatched away and the conference gets even weaker?
I think it is important to get an NCAA win this year. We have three straight postseason losses to teams seeded lower than us (two in league tourney and one in the NCAA). A win will be progress and we're the higher seeded team, so it should happen. Not much you can do about Kentucky other than hope for a miracle. The future seemingly looks bright (in spite of U of Cin's opinion), so the state of the team might look much better in 365 days. Need to win on Thursday to jump start what hopefully is much better things to come down the road.
We don't currently occupy many of the things cited above....other than the streak of NCAA appearances. Our league has been disrespected for two straight years, and holds no relevence in the national picture. We're hanging on by a thread of hope that we may be snatched away by a power 5 conference at some point, but what if one of the other decent programs in our conference is the one snatched away and the conference gets even weaker?
I think it is important to get an NCAA win this year. We have three straight postseason losses to teams seeded lower than us (two in league tourney and one in the NCAA). A win will be progress and we're the higher seeded team, so it should happen. Not much you can do about Kentucky other than hope for a miracle. The future seemingly looks bright (in spite of U of Cin's opinion), so the state of the team might look much better in 365 days. Need to win on Thursday to jump start what hopefully is much better things to come down the road.
#BearcatNation
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2012
- Messages
- 2,120
Don't think I've posted anything like this in the past two weeks, so not sure what condition you have.
Simple Rating System (SRS) is a metric that measures point differential and strength of schedule. Under this metric, 00.00 is the NCAA average. Negative numbers are below average, and positive numbers are above average.
Coaches ranked in this order during their UC tenure:
1) Huggins 18.17 (19.50 if you discount the first two years)
2) Kennedy 12.95
3) Cronin 10.58 (13.74 last five years, including this year)
4) Badger 2.13
5) Yates 1.69
To give you some perspective, here are some other coaches:
1) Pitino (23.28 @UK, 18.35 @Louisville)
2) Coach K (21.04 @Duke)
3) Sean Miller (12.57 @Xavier, 16.82 @Arizona)
4) Thad Matta (14.61 @Xavier, 18.61 @OSU)
5) Billy Donovan (17.16 @Florida)
Below, you will find UC ratings for the past 36 years, ranked from best-performing to worst-performing:
24.62, 99-00 (Huggins)
24.38, 01-02 (Huggins)
22.62, 92-93 (Huggins)
22.11, 95-96 (Huggins)
21.67, 91-92 (Huggins)
20.64, 96-97 (Huggins)
19.95, 98-99 (Huggins)
18.75, 03-04 (Huggins)
18.34, 94-95 (Huggins)
17.85, 97-98 (Huggins)
17.64, 04-05 (Huggins)
16.19, 00-01 (Huggins)
15.41, 10-11 (Cronin)
15.30, 93-94 (Huggins)
15.26, 13-14 (Cronin)
14.46, 12-13 (Cronin)
12.95, 05-06 (Kennedy)
12.93, 11-12 (Cronin
12.90, 02-03 (Huggins)
10.69, 14-15 (Cronin/Davis)
10.61, 90-91 (Huggins)
09.98, 09-10 (Cronin)
07.83, 08-09 (Cronin)
07.19, 89-90 (Huggins)
05.07, 85-86 (Yates)
04.86, 07-08 (Cronin)
04.80, 88-89 (Yates)
04.20, 84-85 (Yates)
03.80, 06-07 (Cronin)
03.36, 82-83 (Badger)
02.79, 81-82 (Badger)
02.55, 87-88 (Yates)
01.57, 79-80 (Badger)
00.82, 80-81 (Badger)
(1.13), 86-87 (Yates)
(5.34), 83-84 (Yates)
Coaches ranked in this order during their UC tenure:
1) Huggins 18.17 (19.50 if you discount the first two years)
2) Kennedy 12.95
3) Cronin 10.58 (13.74 last five years, including this year)
4) Badger 2.13
5) Yates 1.69
To give you some perspective, here are some other coaches:
1) Pitino (23.28 @UK, 18.35 @Louisville)
2) Coach K (21.04 @Duke)
3) Sean Miller (12.57 @Xavier, 16.82 @Arizona)
4) Thad Matta (14.61 @Xavier, 18.61 @OSU)
5) Billy Donovan (17.16 @Florida)
Below, you will find UC ratings for the past 36 years, ranked from best-performing to worst-performing:
24.62, 99-00 (Huggins)
24.38, 01-02 (Huggins)
22.62, 92-93 (Huggins)
22.11, 95-96 (Huggins)
21.67, 91-92 (Huggins)
20.64, 96-97 (Huggins)
19.95, 98-99 (Huggins)
18.75, 03-04 (Huggins)
18.34, 94-95 (Huggins)
17.85, 97-98 (Huggins)
17.64, 04-05 (Huggins)
16.19, 00-01 (Huggins)
15.41, 10-11 (Cronin)
15.30, 93-94 (Huggins)
15.26, 13-14 (Cronin)
14.46, 12-13 (Cronin)
12.95, 05-06 (Kennedy)
12.93, 11-12 (Cronin
12.90, 02-03 (Huggins)
10.69, 14-15 (Cronin/Davis)
10.61, 90-91 (Huggins)
09.98, 09-10 (Cronin)
07.83, 08-09 (Cronin)
07.19, 89-90 (Huggins)
05.07, 85-86 (Yates)
04.86, 07-08 (Cronin)
04.80, 88-89 (Yates)
04.20, 84-85 (Yates)
03.80, 06-07 (Cronin)
03.36, 82-83 (Badger)
02.79, 81-82 (Badger)
02.55, 87-88 (Yates)
01.57, 79-80 (Badger)
00.82, 80-81 (Badger)
(1.13), 86-87 (Yates)
(5.34), 83-84 (Yates)
bearcat jeff
Hoops Moderator
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2010
- Messages
- 7,502
I agree with you on this post. I believe a win Thursday is important and believe the loss to UConn will motivate the team to go out and get it done. Next season is huge for this program with everyone but Sanders back. It's going to be a telling season for the staff who will be fully equipped to make something happen in terms of a league championship and more.
Also, should have mentioned, the source of this data is SportsReference.com:
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/cincinnati/
Lefty, what is your conclusion from all of this? It obviously looks good for Huggs. But, it also looks pretty good for Mick as well doesn't it? What's your interpretation of these numbers.
Just for the record, the state of the team is evolving every single day. If I did post something like this a week ago, then I apologize for saying it again. But, a lot has happenened in a week and the state of the team is different today because of it. Jeff has posted many times his thoughts on our consecutive trips to the NCAA, including again last night, but the streak turned from 4 to 5 at a little after 6 o'clock yesterday, so the state of the program changed and he commented again, which is ok. Not sure why you had to make a smart-ass comment to me, but not to others who state the same thing over and over as well. I respect you and your opinion, and especially your love of this program. and if you post things more than once, I just go with the flow. It would have been nice if you said you agreed or disagreed with what I said, rather than taking your shot to induce others to pile on. The others in here could have certainly piled on, but didn't, and I respect them for that. I think this can be a great forum of true fans if we just concentrate on keeping our posts directed at agreeing or disagreeing with the post, and not directing the comments at the person who makes the post.
No matter what you or anyone else in here thinks, I love the university, the program and the team. I don't always post popular thoughts that go with the flow in here, but don't ever question my loyalty and feelings for our school. I want only one thing......an outstanding and elite level basketball program. I think it is possible at UC, and I'll continue to to put all my energy toward doing my part of trying to make it happen.
jacobkdoyle
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
- Messages
- 17,008
What happened? I've been way out of the loop.
JasonS
Football Moderator
I'll give you my interpretation from the data. Huggins, when at UC was dominant in a way that we have not seen before or since. Mick has done quite well and has not deserved the level of criticism he has received. Huggins had UC ranked #1 in the country in several years. We have not been there since. Do I think we can be a top 10 team? Yes. Do I think it will happen next year? I think there is the possibility. The numbers state that Mick has done a good job here and the trend, with 5 straight NCAA appearances, is moving in the right direction.
bearcat jeff
Hoops Moderator
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2010
- Messages
- 7,502
There is no question you invest in this program and I do believe you love UC. Keep posting.
We all aren't going to agree and our love for the program makes us all sensitive to posts where at times we shouldn't be. Myself included. I'm making a conscious effort to remember that and would ask that everyone else do the same.
bearcat jeff
Hoops Moderator
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2010
- Messages
- 7,502
Agreed.....the last five seasons have elevated my hope. All the chambers for this team will be loaded next season. They will have everything including experience. To me th onus is on the staff next year. This team shot an all time high of over 45% in the Cronin era. Now the coaches have to find a way to maximise that.
ccmbearcat
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2013
- Messages
- 258
For those of us who remember the real glory days that statement does not make sense. Huggins teams never remotely approached the great UC teams. And he only reached ths second week once in his last nine years. I'll agree with you on since but absolutely not on before.
Well, I remember those glory days, and they only lasted for 5 or 6 years, but those 5 or 6 years were phenominal. Huggs' run lasted 14 years, and we made the tournament 14 straight years, which at the time, there was only one single school ahead of us. We never reached the mountaintop, but we reached some pretty nice overlooks trying to get there. The end results didn't compare obviously, but the longevity of success was what was special with his period. Some of the players we got to watch are among the very best and most beloved Bearcats in history. Two different periods...but both pretty special.
I think Cincinnati is capable, as a program, of performing on the same level as, for example, Louisville. By this, I mean average SRS in the neighborhood of ~18. NCAA tournament bids are expected, and not used as the definitive measure of the program's success.
Historically, and I mean recent history, it's been proven by Huggins that this feat can be accomplished for a sustained period.
On the other hand, if we dive into the 80s, there is evidence that Cincinnati can completely drop off the map, like, for example, Houston.
I think the program is at a fragile state, being in this terrible conference (two bids), and a lot of people are scared to death that if Cronin left, the program would nosedive. It doesn't help that the regional competition has increased immensely in the past 15 years (compare Louisville, Xavier, Dayton, OSU, and Butler, 15 years ago to today).
It also doesn't help that Cronin appears to be a very ethical guy, when so many other programs are willing to tip toe the compliance foul line. I admire Mick on this issue. I wasn't a fan of why he got the Louisville job, but I understand: Working for Pitino is like the college basketball equivalent of being valedictorian from Harvard. His first loyalty is as provider for his family.
Also, we don't know to what extent the board is handcuffing Cronin. Is there an understanding that Cronin will not take risks on certain players with checkered pasts? He may be under certain pressures or influences we are not aware of.
A part of me was secretly hoping that Cronin would coach this weekend, because, if he was able to comeback and beat UK, it would be the story of the year, perhaps the last five years, in college basketball. He'd be an instant celebrity, and the program would be off-and-running. But, obviously, his long-term health is of much greater concern. Maybe, LD, who did a fantastic job with these guys, can pull off this miracle.
Well, our fanbase is so far behind the loyalty level and excitement level of Louiville's fanbase at this point, it will be a while before we can track them down....again!. But, I agree, there was a time, not long after they won national championships, where we tracked them down and had them breathing the fumes of our tailpipe. I keep repeating myself, but it's all about recruiting in my opinion. If there's not an upgrade in recruiting, we'll stay right where we are, probably making the tournament every year, but little more. I certainly think the program could use a significant event, or season, to occur in order to shake the cobwebs off our fanbase and get this thing moving again. These next two years are when it can happen. Let's hope it does.
you're sanders
Member
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2014
- Messages
- 12
The one thing that no one is talking about in 24 pages of discussion thus far:
who will be Sanders next year?
who will be Sanders next year?
Fifth-best recruiting class in conference, in a conference with two NCAA bids, is not acceptable.
I mentioned earlier, return to Nike. Cincinnati needs Nike, more than Nike needs Cincinnati. At least one coach agrees with me about their influence:
http://louisville.247sports.com/Article/Pitino-blasts-Nikes-recruiting-influence--31885983
You also need to take risks on guys. Believe in yourself and your program to help some of these kids, and they are kids, develop into men. Many of them have never had much in the way of constructive direction, and it's your chance to help them see the world from another perspective.