UCF Round 2

[Gaaangs]

So Jarron, the guy making 0 dollars is taking the blame for this loss


But you guys think the guy making over a million a year shouldn’t take any?

Johnny Dawkins abused John Brannen last night. He exploited his aweful defensive system and made it look pitiful. Does Brannen adjust ? Nope. He’s as stubborn as our last coach

What in the world does how much money you make have to do with anything? I don't see the logic in that...

 

[cincrulz11]

That's why as a coach you need to demand players give 40 minutes of effort, every game. Huggins and Cronin didn't accept lack of effort. Players could miss shot or make mistakes, but if they weren't giving it their all on defense and rebounding they were coming out of the game.

The "turn it on when we need to" method leads to a lot of close games and more than our fair share of close (and bad) losses.

i mean do you think he doesn't teach effort all the time?


you know when you have to accept it? when you have 0 subs for the 4/5 spot. when you have 8 playable players on the roster (7 when diarra is playing like he's been playing).


brannen said after the game he wants to pull guys out for not boxing out, there just aren't any players to put in for them.

 

[skyblade]

This was originally meant to be a stat about our lack of effort this year, but since you all know I dislike Vogt, I will use him as the starting point.

In conference this year, Chris Vogt averages 7.4 TRB/40 minutes, only 2 players average more than him (Scott 13.3 and Diarra 10.9).

Last year, we had 6 players averaging more than 7.4 TRB/40 minutes in conference. They were, in order from highest to lowest: Brooks, Diarra, Fredericks, Scott, Nsoseme and Logan Johnson.

 

[justinhub2003]

What in the world does how much money you make have to do with anything? I don't see the logic in that...

Imagine a world where grown men place all their blame on unpaid college athletes because their favorite team failed to entertain them.


If the lakers fail, fine talk shit about lebron. He makes 30 million. But the pressures and shit talk that comes from fans in regards to players is insane.


like for example... some people talk so much crap about Chris McNeal. But Chris McNeal is who he is. It’s the coach who inserts him into the game at the worst times that’s the issue.


I try my best to not harp on player performance too much. And even when I do, I usually expect the coaches, who are paid and should be wearing the most pressure to resolve it.

Chris Vogt can’t help that he moves slow. So our coach should do something to scheme around it

 

[cincrulz11]

Vogt's defensive rebounding % is down to 10.6 in conference.


thats behind Jarron, Keith, McNeal.


really no excuse for that.

 

[cincyguy13]

This was originally meant to be a stat about our lack of effort this year, but since you all know I dislike Vogt, I will use him as the starting point.

In conference this year, Chris Vogt averages 7.4 TRB/40 minutes, only 2 players average more than him (Scott 13.3 and Diarra 10.9).

Last year, we had 6 players averaging more than 7.4 TRB/40 minutes in conference. They were, in order from highest to lowest: Brooks, Diarra, Fredericks, Scott, Nsoseme and Logan Johnson.

The per 40 stats are pointless for guys that barely play.

 

[skyblade]

i mean do you think he doesn't teach effort all the time?


you know when you have to accept it? when you have 0 subs for the 4/5 spot. when you have 8 playable players on the roster (7 when diarra is playing like he's been playing).


brannen said after the game he wants to pull guys out for not boxing out, there just aren't any players to put in for them.

Brannen seems much more willing to just accept poor defense, rebounding and boxing out than Cronin/Huggins would be.

Was it Huggins who pulled out players and put in the walk-on's at one point?

You don't have to sit a guy for an extended period, but pull him and sit him for a couple minutes to make a point (or to give him rest if he needs it). Having Harvey, Diarra, Davenport or even McNeal play for a few minutes isn't going to be the end of the world.

Brannen is less willing than almost any coach I've seen to put backups in during the second half of close games and it ends up with our starters not having the energy they need.

It's too late now, but as I said at the time and continue to say. Brannen should have put more effort into developing backups during the relatively easy early season games. We had multiple games where starters were playing 30+ minutes in 10+ point wins against Q3/Q4 teams. Those are the games you use to develop depth.

 

[cincyguy13]

Vogt's defensive rebounding % is down to 10.6 in conference.


thats behind Jarron, Keith, McNeal.


really no excuse for that.

He can’t move at all. That’s a decent excuse

 

[skyblade]

The per 40 stats are pointless for guys that barely play.

Yes, the low playing time makes the numbers more variable. But I'd argue it's largely a reflection of the fact that Cronin demanded energy, rebounding and defense out of his backups. If you don't defend and rebound when Cronin puts you in, you aren't going to play.

Besides Cane Broome, backups were expected to rebound. Even the worse rebounding backups - Trevor Moore and Keith Williams - averaged 4.1 and 4.2 rebounds per 40 respectively.

This year in conference, Davenport averages 2.6, Harvey 2.5 and MAW 3.4 per 40. Harvey and Davenport are both capable of being way better at rebounding than that.

 

[justinhub2003]

3 predictions for next year:

* top 3 worst defense in AAC play
* top 3 worst free throw shooting in AAC play
* worst rebounding team in the league next year

I hope I’m wrong.

 

[waterhead]

i mean do you think he doesn't teach effort all the time?


you know when you have to accept it? when you have 0 subs for the 4/5 spot. when you have 8 playable players on the roster (7 when diarra is playing like he's been playing).


brannen said after the game he wants to pull guys out for not boxing out, there just aren't any players to put in for them.

We have 4 guards who can play. Take the one out that is tired or not putting in the effort. They can each play 30 minutes. I don't worry about Tre giving effort or getting tired. Play him 36 minutes and sub him out for 2 half way through each half. If Vogt is not in foul trouble give him two 2 minute breaks each half before and after Tre goes out.

That is basically a 6 man rotation with spot breather minutes for the bigs. If we get in foul trouble...then things change a little. We can't bring in 3 bench players at a time.

 

[cincyguy13]

3 predictions for next year:

* top 3 worst defense in AAC play
* top 3 worst free throw shooting in AAC play
* worst rebounding team in the league next year

I hope I’m wrong.

You’re never wrong

 

[cincrulz11]

We have 4 guards who can play. Take the one out that is tired or not putting in the effort. They can each play 30 minutes. I don't worry about Tre giving effort or getting tired. Play him 36 minutes and sub him out for 2 half way through each half. If Vogt is not in foul trouble give him two 2 minute breaks each half before and after Tre goes out.

That is basically a 6 man rotation with spot breather minutes for the bigs. If we get in foul trouble...then things change a little. We can't bring in 3 bench players at a time.

who are the 4 guards that can rebound?

jarron is ok at best, keith is ok. the rest are terrible.


tre's numbers are incredible because there isn't another player on the roster that can defensive rebound. basically he gets it or nobody does.


and thats with or without Vogt. its really embarrassing.

 

[waterhead]

who are the 4 guards that can rebound?

jarron is ok at best, keith is ok. the rest are terrible.


tre's numbers are incredible because there isn't another player on the roster that can defensive rebound. basically he gets it or nobody does.


and thats with or without Vogt. its really embarrassing.

I wasn't directing that at rebounding specifically...just giving effort. I am saying we can bench a player for dogging it and still have 3 decent guards on the court. Keith gets gassed a lot and either doesn't or can't hustle back at times. Jarron was caught watching on rebounds and sometimes he likes to stand and complain after he thinks he's fouled or gets the ball stolen while the other team races down the court.

I also watched MAW and Jarron in a very short time frame not grab a ball with two hands and tried to coral the ball with one hand on the dribble. Each play the defender just went and got it and went on a fast break. Both could have been avoided by simply grabbing the damn ball with both hands first. That's more of a fundamental thing but you can't get cute with a ball on the loose and defenders nearby.

 

[cincyguy13]

who are the 4 guards that can rebound?

jarron is ok at best, keith is ok. the rest are terrible.


tre's numbers are incredible because there isn't another player on the roster that can defensive rebound. basically he gets it or nobody does.


and thats with or without Vogt. its really embarrassing.

Rebounding is effort. Anyone can rebound. As long as you can move. You just box out and run after the ball. Not rocket science.

 

[cincrulz11]

I wasn't directing that at rebounding specifically...just giving effort. I am saying we can bench a player for dogging it and still have 3 decent guards on the court. Keith gets gassed a lot and either doesn't or can't hustle back at times. Jarron was caught watching on rebounds and sometimes he likes to stand and complain after he thinks he's fouled or gets the ball stolen while the other team races down the court.

I also watched MAW and Jarron in a very short time frame not grab a ball with two hands and tried to coral the ball with one hand on the dribble. Each play the defender just went and got it and went on a fast break. Both could have been avoided by simply grabbing the damn ball with both hands first. That's more of a fundamental thing but you can't get cute with a ball on the loose and defenders nearby.

i only referenced rebounding because thats what brannen specifically references when he said he'd bench guys if he could.


when mika went into the backcourt to get that one loose ball and UCF won the battle and got a dunk/layup out of it. keith was the closest guy besides the 2 that went after the loose ball. and he just stood and watched as UCF ran down the court. if keith even jogs back, we get that loose ball.


that stuff just can't happen when you're fighting for your tournament life. there is no tomorrow.

 

[cincrulz11]

Rebounding is effort. Anyone can rebound. As long as you can move. You just box out and run after the ball. Not rocket science.

well none of them do it. which i think is kinda brannens point. you give effort like that and you get benched. but he doesn't have anybody to come in and give good effort.


pretty sad.


harvey and davenport came in, gave up boards and instantly got sent back to the bench. same for diarra. i mean thats basically the entire bench.

 

[cincyguy13]

well none of them do it. which i think is kinda brannens point. you give effort like that and you get benched. but he doesn't have anybody to come in and give good effort.


pretty sad.


harvey and davenport came in, gave up boards and instantly got sent back to the bench. same for diarra. i mean thats basically the entire bench.

I’m partly with you. Only part I disagree with is, brannen has to change something in the game if nothing working. That game was must win. That’s his job.

 

[waterhead]

3 predictions for next year:

* top 3 worst defense in AAC play
* top 3 worst free throw shooting in AAC play
* worst rebounding team in the league next year

I hope I’m wrong.

I don't expect a great deal next year from our team but it will be interesting to see what happens in the following year as we get some Brannen players move into Junior and soph seasons. I am expecting for him to be able to go deeper into the bench with players who are still capable of scoring. So we can keep fresh legs on the court (for D) and keep our effort up without losing scoring pop.

To play his style we need to be at least 8 deep if not 9. We need a solid transfer big as well. A guy who can rebound and defend. I am not sure we will be 8 or 9 deep with quality next year. But I hope to see it start to develop for the following season. Brannen will have to put something good together by the time his current frosh are seniors. That is my leash for him unless it becomes apparent it's spiraling out of control which I do not expect.

I keep forgetting about Prince. I hope he can play and act as a short PF. He was billed as a rebounder with ability to score around the rim on either side. If he can hit a 3 he can add some depth.

 

[cincrulz11]

I’m partly with you. Only part I disagree with is, brannen has to change something in the game if nothing working. That game was must win. That’s his job.

we can go back and forth on that but i think its pretty clear they never practice zone defense. and when they do its a gimmicky 1-3-1.


the defense has gone from looking awful to getting a lot of stops in multiple games this season. without changing anything. effort went up and defense got much better.


just "switching something" does not guarantee a better outcome. there seems to be the assumption that it does.


we gave up 13 points the last 10 minutes of regulation. its not likely any other defense gives up less points than that, and we likely don't even get to OT by switching things up.