USF: the battle for.... I have no idea. Hopefully something

[Jon Rycek]

The spread on this game was a couple of buckets. We were without Jarron. We were without Davenport (not a big deal except for depth). McNeal played 20 minutes. Harvey wasn't good. Jaevin did very little. Mika didn't do much. Vogt didn't do much.

We were on the road against a Q2. We were down a sizable chunk of points. We won by double digits.

Of course we were supposed to win...but with a short rotation and without your best player...can we just give the coach (and players) some credit in a MUST win situation?

Good God!!

It was a great win, Keith Williams and Scott were huge. But one guy early said it would be the greatest thing he’d ever seen. I mean come on now lol. Even with injuries we are still the way more talented team, it was never a game we should have lost

 

[waterhead]

i wonder what the line would have been to start if it was known Jarron wasn't playing

According to some...that's not even a story line. you are just supposed to win the game easily by the same amount of points whether he plays or not.

Coach JB has his back against the wall. Fans complaining. Father passed. Best player sitting. Short roster.

The best we get is that we beat USF 10 times in a row before this...there are no extenuating circumstances that should affect the same outcome. If we lose all hell breaks loose...if we win...you get no credit

 

[cincrulz11]

im genuinely wondering how much 1 player can change a line.

 

[skyblade]

I agree lol. I’ve noticed a lot of Vogts deficiencies lately, but he’s still a big body that changes plays. It’s just weird how his defense is ignored because it’s not on the stat sheet but Diarras is this huge thing that needs to be recognized. Vogt builds his lower body strength, plays the amount of minutes a 7’1 guy should play he could be a lot better. But apparently he’s literally at his ceiling. Because UC has always been known for our terrible strength training and body conditioning. But then Diarra on the other hand, could be a knock down 3 point shooter if we just ran plays for him, if he just got the minutes he’s be unstoppable

I believe Diarra will be first team all conference in a year or two. I've never said Diarra is great though, just that he has vast potential.

I just don't see Vogt as nearly good as a lot of people think he is and never have. Vogt is at best average and when not scoring below average.

I talk plenty about Vogt's defense (so much so that most on here got tired of hearing it). Vogt is a bad defender, very bad at convering on rotations and a horrible defender outside the paint. I don't need stats for that (though Justin provided synergy numbers that support it), I can see it through watching the games.

Watch our defense and you can see that Brannen and the rest of the team know Vogt is a bad defender. We double any times Vogt's man touches the ball close to the basket, we have to collapse and help more in the paint because Vogt can't cut off drives. Part of the reason USF was getting open threes before Diarra came in for Vogt was because we kept collapsing to help Vogt and because someone else needs to help stop drives when Vogt can't.

When Diarra plays defense none of that is an issue. Diarra is excellent at cutting off drives, his teammates trust him to play defense (though Durr got barely any touches because Diarra prevent him from even getting the ball), he rebounds better and provides better help in the paint if a man does get there (though he needs to work on knowing when to go for the block and when to back off and not have two guys trying to block a shot).

I don't need stats to tell me Vogt is nowhere close to Diarra on defense and never will be. Vogt needs to provide enough on offense to make up for his lack of defense/rebounding and lately he doesn't. Diarra's ability to stretch the defense with the three (even if he doesn't shoot many) seems like a better fit for the offense Brannen wants to run.

 

[Chance2017]

According to some...that's not even a story line. you are just supposed to win the game easily by the same amount of points whether he plays or not.

Coach JB has his back against the wall. Fans complaining. Father passed. Best player sitting. Short roster.

The best we get is that we beat USF 10 times in a row before this...there are no extenuating circumstances that should affect the same outcome. If we lose all hell breaks loose...if we win...you get no credit

It's exhausting seeing the pessimism that some of the posters live their lives with. CJB is our coach. These are our players. It's honestly kind of sad how these fans treat this team and coach. Sports are supposed to be a fun hobby. They make it so miserable lol. I thought the win last night was awesome. I'm excited for the possibility of Dou giving our defense some energy. I'm hopeful the team can carry last night into Saturday with Jarron.

Why not us?? Oh...I am sure some posters will give me some reasons why...and that's why this board is frustrating sometimes.

 

[waterhead]

It was a great win, Keith Williams and Scott were huge. But one guy early said it would be the greatest thing he’d ever seen. I mean come on now lol. Even with injuries we are still the way more talented team, it was never a game we should have lost

Tre and Keith were awesome but they are the only 2 who are obviously more talented or productive than an average conference player. I will wait while you name the rest. Vogt was at one point but not recently. Jaevin can be when hot but he wasn't. MAW has had some good games and some unproductive games which he did again. Diara is a crap shoot...we won the coin flip this time. McNeal has been awful overall. Harvey is not doing anything special.

That is an average cast of players...some who will get better over time. CJB got the best out of them. The vets stepped up. Give props

 

[justinhub2003]

I’m giving John Brannen credit for last night. So leave me out of that talk.

I’ve already noted I was proud of the fight In the last 10 minutes. That goes for the players and the staff.


Go Bearcats. Hope every one is there on Saturday, loud and proud. To send off Jarron, Tre , Jaevin and McNeal the right way.


Dat way

 

[cincrulz11]

Harvey's struggles were on me and mdchick. we praised his smarts and then he remembered he was a freshman.

 

[justinhub2003]

My only concern with the freshman, is that none of them have really stepped up to have a huge game. You’d like to see that a few times before we hand the keys over to them next year.

If you look at other freshman around the country, or even in the same city, guys like Tandy and freemantle, have scored in double figures nearly 10 times each and both having games where they scored 18 in game.
At UCLA (only bringing them up, bc they also are young) they have 2 freshmen who’ve not only had big games, but won games for them.


Harvey hasn’t hit double figures once this season and was ranked right around where Jarron was. But Jarron scores in double figures 14 times, and didn’t start a single game as a freshman. He was fearless against UCLA in the tourney and he did it with a team that had: Gary, Troy, Evans, & Kyle Washington.

We knew right away Jarron was a top 50 recruit and a future star.


I just don’t see future stars out of MAW and Harvey yet.


Doesn’t mean they won’t blossom into it. Just not the kinda players that jump off the page on a not so talented, not so deep team.

 

[Chance2017]

My only concern with the freshman, is that none of them have really stepped up to have a huge game. You’d like to see that a few times before we hand the keys over to them next year.

If you look at other freshman around the country, or even in the same city, guys like Tandy and freemantle, have scored in double figures nearly 10 times each and both having games where they scored 18 in game.
At UCLA (only bringing them up, bc they also are young) they have 2 freshmen who’ve not only had big games, but won games for them.


Harvey hasn’t hit double figures once this season and was ranked right around where Jarron was. But Jarron scores in double figures 14 times, and didn’t start a single game. He was fearless against UCLA in the tourney and he did it with a team that had: Gary, Troy, Evans, & Kyle Washington.

We knew right away Jarron was a top 50 recruit and a future star.


I just don’t see future stars out of MAW and Harvey yet.


Doesn’t mean they won’t blossom into it. Just not the kinda players that jump off the page on a not so talented, not so deep team.

Harvey is coming off of reconstructive ankle surgery. After games earlier in the year he wasn't able to practice due to tenderness.

If we don't see a big jump next season I will be worried though. I just don't think he's all the way there yet physically.

 

[cincrulz11]

Harvey should still be in high school. He would be if he would have been able to go back to his school, thats how we got lucky and got him.


You see glimpses sometimes. He has games where he plays great defense. He almost always makes the right decision, even if the execution isn't always there.


MAW is likely to always be a role player. He'll be in the rotation with the guards as we play 94 feet both ways.


It was a good class for having 2 months with the recruiting season already over. Probably as good as we could have ever hoped for.

 

[justinhub2003]

Harvey should still be in high school. He would be if he would have been able to go back to his school, thats how we got lucky and got him.


You see glimpses sometimes. He has games where he plays great defense. He almost always makes the right decision, even if the execution isn't always there.


MAW is likely to always be a role player. He'll be in the rotation with the guards as we play 94 feet both ways.


It was a good class for having 2 months with the recruiting season already over. Probably as good as we could have ever hoped for.

This isn’t true. He was a 2019 kid all along, had some personal issues, and then decided to go to prep school. Rumors were his prep school didn’t approve him enrolling and then reclassified BACK to the 2019 class

He was literally about to commit to Xavier as a 2019 player before reclassifying to 2020


https://247sports.com/college/basketball/recruiting/Article/Four-star-guard-Zach-Harvey-to-reclassify-to-2020-121854695/

 

[Chance2017]

This isn’t true. He was a 2019 kid all along, had some personal issues, and then decided to go to prep school. Rumors were his prep school didn’t approve him enrolling and then reclassified BACK to the 2019 class

He was literally about to commit to Xavier as a 2019 player before reclassifying to 2020

Justin is correct here. Harvey turned 19 on Feb 23rd. That is still on the younger side for a lot of college freshman though. Mika and JD are both 20

Edit:
https://gobearcats.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster

Each payer's bio can be ound on that link. Mika and Zach have the same birthday...just one year apart

 

[justinhub2003]

I will accept the answer that his development was hindered by his injury.

And next year will be a big one for him.

He is a smooth athlete

 

[justinhub2003]

Justin is correct here. Harvey turned 19 on Feb 23rd. That is still on the younger side for a lot of college freshman though. Mika and JD are both 20

Dunno about Mika.

But JD also went the prep school route. He didn’t get any good offers out of high school, mostly because of rumored eligibility concerns with grades.

So he went to Hargrave.

 

[cincrulz11]

This isn’t true. He was a 2019 kid all along, had some personal issues, and then decided to go to prep school. Rumors were his prep school didn’t approve him enrolling and then reclassified BACK to the 2019 class

He was literally about to commit to Xavier as a 2019 player before reclassifying to 2020


https://247sports.com/college/baske...-Zach-Harvey-to-reclassify-to-2020-121854695/

i mean uhh yeah?

from the article

Four-star guard Zach Harvey will reclassify to the 2020 recruiting class, he tells 247Sports.

"I just felt like it was the best decision for me, especially while remaining eligible for 2019 still," Harvey said. "It gives me more time to look into school and choose the best fit for me."

Harvey, who recently transferred to Napa (Calif.) Prolific Prep, was originally in the 2019 recruiting class. He was ranked No. 50 overall in the 247Sports Composite Rankings and No. 42 overall in the Top247.


and we got him for the 2019 class. so....

 

[justinhub2003]

Mika looks like he also went to prep school.

Which explains his age.

 

[cincrulz11]

although i did mean prep school, not high school

 

[justinhub2003]

i mean uhh yeah?

from the article

Four-star guard Zach Harvey will reclassify to the 2020 recruiting class, he tells 247Sports.

"I just felt like it was the best decision for me, especially while remaining eligible for 2019 still," Harvey said. "It gives me more time to look into school and choose the best fit for me."

Harvey, who recently transferred to Napa (Calif.) Prolific Prep, was originally in the 2019 recruiting class. He was ranked No. 50 overall in the 247Sports Composite Rankings and No. 42 overall in the Top247.


and we got him for the 2019 class. so....

He was a 2019 recruit. He had issues personally, decided to go to a 5th year of high school/ prep school, but that option was taken away, so he was with out a prep school very late in the process, so he ditched the prep school plan and decided to stay in his original class of 2019


He graduated high school. He played 4 years of high school ball just like most everyone.

 

[cincrulz11]

He was a 2019 recruit. He had issues personally, decided to go to a 5th year of high school/ prep school, but that option was taken away, so he was with out a prep school very late in the process, so he ditched the prep school plan and decided to stay in his original class of 2019


He graduated high school. He played 4 years of high school ball just like most everyone.

right i agree with all that.


but he wanted to go to the 2020 class, and he could have used it because of his ankle injury. then he found out he couldn't go to his prep school and he had nowhere to go so he stayed 2019.

he really could have used that year for him. uc benefited from him not getting it because he likely wouldn't have come here.


or he could have used a red-shirt this year. we weren't in a spot to give one.