What have we learned?

[jacobkdoyle]

Once again you arent subbing Moore for any of those guys. You are subbing him for Gary or Ellis. Those two are anchoring the team along with Troy. Them being off the floor more minutes for anyone is a bad idea. KJ or Morman or Guyn or Shaq playing more minutes than Moore means absolutely nothing because Moore cant take those minutes because he does not play that position. If those players were stretch 4's ok I guess. But they dont. If you want Moore to play more minutes you are going to have to take them away from Ellis, Clark, and Deberry. With how bad he has played on defense and with how bad he has rebounded the ball on both offense and defense I cant justify giving him minutes over the other 3. He has offensive talent no doubt but he hasnt consistently been productive on offense either when he has had his chances. Like most he has shown "flashes".

Ellis and Clark combine to play 56 of the 80 available minutes at PF and C. There are minutes available everywhere. I honestly wouldn't mind having Ellis, Moore and Clark out there together at times with Cobb and Caupain. You could help hide Moore's inability to rebound if you played him alongside those guys for stretches. My ship has sailed on Shaq and Sanders, so I personally would give their minutes away in a heartbeat. Even if it meant we had a parched together lineup without a true 3.

 

[Bearcat Rob]

Ellis and clark have been pretty consistent in 8-12 pts with 8ish boards per game. But we will not beat any solid team when troy scores 2 pts. Troy needs to consitantly score 10 or more pts in big games for this team and he has done that in the previuos two and i believe we can count on 10 plus from him in the future. in addition we need another guard to step up and help him out and take some pressure off him... if we can also get 10 pts from another guard i like our chances

 

[Bearcat Rob]

I know some like him but Moore is not ready to play in big games yet, he needs to get quicker and get tougher and get some intensity. He looks slow and lost out there

 

[david aka the TYZ]

I know some like him but Moore is not ready to play in big games yet, he needs to get quicker and get tougher and get some intensity. He looks slow and lost out there

Completely agree. He knocked down a couple open threes early in the year and some seem to think he is the missing piece. To me he looks lost out there as you said. I think deberry should be getting more minutes behind Clark and ellis. At this point I don't think Moore being on the floor makes the team better.

 

[Bearcat Rob]

Completely agree. He knocked down a couple open threes early in the year and some seem to think he is the missing piece. To me he looks lost out there as you said. I think deberry should be getting more minutes behind Clark and ellis. At this point I don't think Moore being on the floor makes the team better.

Completely agree, i get frustrated when he checks in

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Completely agree. He knocked down a couple open threes early in the year and some seem to think he is the missing piece. To me he looks lost out there as you said. I think deberry should be getting more minutes behind Clark and ellis. At this point I don't think Moore being on the floor makes the team better.

We have scored 44, 57, and 47 in regulation the last 3 games. Moore has played 15 minutes total. I don't claim that he is the missing piece, but how can we possibly be worse with him on the floor? It is a little weird that the people who are quick to call this a rebuilding year are the same people who don't want Moore on the floor. Does he have holes in his game? Yes. No doubt about it. Do other players getting more minutes than him have just as big of holes in other areas? Yes. No doubt about it. So how exactly is he supposed to adjust to the speed of D-1 if he is getting very limited chances? My only thing is that if we are rebuilding, then let's do it with the guys we are going to need in the future. It is looking less and less likely that we will make the tournament. So how does it benefit us to not have him more ready going into next year?

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Completely agree, i get frustrated when he checks in

Who doesn't frustrate you when then check in? Sometimes Cobb (who should be starting), and...sometimes DeBerry (who can't give us more than 15 or so minutes every night)? It is funny how the thought of Moore missing a rebound and giving up a lay up is more embarrassing than someone hitting the side of the backboard and putting up airballs.

 

[Mcginnjw]

I'm never surprised but always amused over the comments after a loss, but all this fuss over losing to a good team under Cronin's circumstances makes me chuckle. In all honesty who thought this years team was gonna be a juggernaut?? You cant lose your 3 best/most important players, replace them with freshmen and sophomores, and expect the same results...thats just ridiculous thinking. Not one of these players has ever been relied on to be a focal point of a college team. They have a good deal of young talent that could grow into something but how about a little time? JJ was a borderline liability his first 3 years and grew into a monster for his senior year. Passion is always good from a fan base but it quickly shifts to irrationality from what i see here.

I agree

 

[Bulldog01]

Doesn't matter...the point I am making is that we can make open shots. It's a mental block and not talent related. Are we the greatest outside shooters? No...but we aren't 10-20% bad

Matters. I could score 100 on 7graders

 

[david aka the TYZ]

We have scored 44, 57, and 47 in regulation the last 3 games. Moore has played 15 minutes total. I don't claim that he is the missing piece, but how can we possibly be worse with him on the floor? It is a little weird that the people who are quick to call this a rebuilding year are the same people who don't want Moore on the floor. Does he have holes in his game? Yes. No doubt about it. Do other players getting more minutes than him have just as big of holes in other areas? Yes. No doubt about it. So how exactly is he supposed to adjust to the speed of D-1 if he is getting very limited chances? My only thing is that if we are rebuilding, then let's do it with the guys we are going to need in the future. It is looking less and less likely that we will make the tournament. So how does it benefit us to not have him more ready going into next year?

I'll bite, what did he do in those 15 minutes? And what did the team do in those 15 minutes? And since you're ready to tank the season and not put out your best lineup to give you a chance to win, what are you telling your fans paying to see you and your recruits you're trying to land?

I get it we're all frustrated, but does anybody here really think that mick is completely clueless when it comes to evaluating the talent on his own team? Do we really think the guys not getting minutes are not getting minutes not because they aren't as good a player but because mick is just stupid? There's a reason Moore is getting five minutes a game right now and why Strickland is not on the team. This team is struggling and mick has a tall task when and if he comes back to turn things around.

 

[Bulldog01]

I know some like him but Moore is not ready to play in big games yet, he needs to get quicker and get tougher and get some intensity. He looks slow and lost out there

Outside of Ellis and Cobb the ENTIRE team looks lost and slow.

 

[Bulldog01]

I'll bite, what did he do in those 15 minutes? And what did the team do in those 15 minutes? And since you're ready to tank the season and not put out your best lineup to give you a chance to win, what are you telling your fans paying to see you and your recruits you're trying to land?

I get it we're all frustrated, but does anybody here really think that mick is completely clueless when it comes to evaluating the talent on his own team? Do we really think the guys not getting minutes are not getting minutes not because they aren't as good a player but because mick is just stupid? There's a reason Moore is getting five minutes a game right now and why Strickland is not on the team. This team is struggling and mick has a tall task when and if he comes back to turn things around.

JD3 should've seen court over guyn. Lawrence over Rubles

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I'll bite, what did he do in those 15 minutes? And what did the team do in those 15 minutes? And since you're ready to tank the season and not put out your best lineup to give you a chance to win, what are you telling your fans paying to see you and your recruits you're trying to land?

I get it we're all frustrated, but does anybody here really think that mick is completely clueless when it comes to evaluating the talent on his own team? Do we really think the guys not getting minutes are not getting minutes not because they aren't as good a player but because mick is just stupid? There's a reason Moore is getting five minutes a game right now and why Strickland is not on the team. This team is struggling and mick has a tall task when and if he comes back to turn things around.

Hard to get it done when you are given 2 2 minute spurts to make an impact. I don't think Mick is stupid. I just think he only plays guys that are ready to defend at the level he expects. I personally would have an easier time being told we are rebuilding, than acting like we're not and trying to win with guys like Sanders, Shaq, etc...

 

[david aka the TYZ]

JD3 should've seen court over guyn. Lawrence over Rubles

Davis was clueless on the floor and rubles was the best combined rebounder and defender we've had in the Cronin era. This team won 27 games last year, I think mick did just fine with the team last year.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

Hard to get it done when you are given 2 2 minute spurts to make an impact. I don't think Mick is stupid. I just think he only plays guys that are ready to defend at the level he expects. I personally would have an easier time being told we are rebuilding, than acting like we're not and trying to win with guys like Sanders, Shaq, etc...

They all play plenty of minutes in practice where mick can evaluate who deserves minutes and who doesn't. If Moore starts lighting things up over Ellis or Clark he'll get more time. And you don't throw in the towel because you're 7-3. They haven't even played a conference game yet. Micks job is to win the game on the schedule not use it as practice for next year.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

They all play plenty of minutes in practice where mick can evaluate who deserves minutes and who doesn't. If Moore starts lighting things up over Ellis or Clark he'll get more time. And you don't throw in the towel because you're 7-3. They haven't even played a conference game yet. Micks job is to win the game on the schedule not use it as practice for next year.

It'd be nice if we were good enough to kill horrible teams so he could get minutes with no pressure. The game against Wagner tomorrow should be the perfect time for him to get extended minutes.

 

[LeftyRose]

Davis was clueless on the floor and rubles was the best combined rebounder and defender we've had in the Cronin era. This team won 27 games last year, I think mick did just fine with the team last year.

Mick never gave JD3 a chance. He showed a lot of offensive promise on a team that struggled to score. He did not fit Mick's prototype A++ defender, and so KJ passed him on the depth chart at the start of the season (notwithstanding KJ's ridiculously bad start on offense).

Last year's team could have used JD3. This year's team could use JD3. It's just another example of Mick's strategy to optimize defense at the expense of offense, because of a misguided notion that you can control defense, but you cannot control whether players make shots.

You wouldn't say a baseball prospect is clueless after ten at bats. We haven't seen a large enough sample size of JD3, which ironically, is the excuse Mick continually used to explain why he kept playing Guyn, despite Guyn's awful advanced metrics in a much larger sample.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

Mick never gave JD3 a chance. He showed a lot of offensive promise on a team that struggled to score. He did not fit Mick's prototype A++ defender, and so KJ passed him on the depth chart at the start of the season (notwithstanding KJ's ridiculously bad start on offense).

Last year's team could have used JD3. This year's team could use JD3. It's just another example of Mick's strategy to optimize defense at the expense of offense, because of a misguided notion that you can control defense, but you cannot control whether players make shots.

You wouldn't say a baseball prospect is clueless after ten at bats. We haven't seen a large enough sample size of JD3, which ironically, is the excuse Mick continually used to explain why he kept playing Guyn, despite Guyn's awful advanced metrics in a much larger sample.

Again, mick can evaluate the players through hours and hours of them going head to head in practice together. Davis was here long enough that if he merited playing time he would've gotten it. I saw Davis in a game last year leave his man to double team the point and stay with the guy all the way up the floor and completely lose sight of the fact that he had his own player to guard. Good teams expose a weak link on defense and Davis was that and more. He would've had to drop 40 to make up for it. Couple that with not really playing team ball on offense and having a bad attitude he saw almost no time. I have no problem with mick benching players who he feels the need to be benched. What I am amazed by is how we continue as fans to think these players who play so few few minutes we can all evaluate that they are world's better than other players.

 

[Bcatfollower]

Mick never gave JD3 a chance. He showed a lot of offensive promise on a team that struggled to score. He did not fit Mick's prototype A++ defender, and so KJ passed him on the depth chart at the start of the season (notwithstanding KJ's ridiculously bad start on offense).

Last year's team could have used JD3. This year's team could use JD3. It's just another example of Mick's strategy to optimize defense at the expense of offense, because of a misguided notion that you can control defense, but you cannot control whether players make shots.

You wouldn't say a baseball prospect is clueless after ten at bats. We haven't seen a large enough sample size of JD3, which ironically, is the excuse Mick continually used to explain why he kept playing Guyn, despite Guyn's awful advanced metrics in a much larger sample.

He puts so much stock in defense because he can't get top tier players to come to cincy. So in order to compete he takes amazing athletes and gets them to buy into playing hard tough d. He can motivate to get effort but can't teach what makes great scorers great...not sure anyone can. He just needs to get better players, but it's competitive.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Good teams expose a weak link on defense

Uh oh, are you saying we aren't a good team!?!? ...jk