What have we learned?

[LeftyRose]

Again, mick can evaluate the players through hours and hours of them going head to head in practice together. Davis was here long enough that if he merited playing time he would've gotten it. I saw Davis in a game last year leave his man to double team the point and stay with the guy all the way up the floor and completely lose sight of the fact that he had his own player to guard. Good teams expose a weak link on defense and Davis was that and more. He would've had to drop 40 to make up for it. Couple that with not really playing team ball on offense and having a bad attitude he saw almost no time. I have no problem with mick benching players who he feels the need to be benched. What I am amazed by is how we continue as fans to think these players who play so few few minutes we can all evaluate that they are world's better than other players.

I agree. I do not think it's fair to characterize a player as "clueless on the floor" or a "weak link on defense" when he only played 73 minutes over the course of two seasons, even though his player efficiency rating and offensive efficiency rating were very competent during those two years.

Not playing team ball on offense? JD3's career assist% was 15.5, which is higher than Guyn, Kilpatrick, and KJ, the three guys he was competing against for playing time last year.

My pet peeve is the "Coach knows best" post. Basketball is not that complicated. Major college basketball is mostly marketing to teenagers. You need balance on offense and defense. JD3's career defensive rating is lower than Guyn's (lower is better). In any event, last year's team could have afforded to give a little on defense in exchange for offense.

 

[waterhead]

Matters. I could score 100 on 7graders

So you could make an open 3 pointer against 7th graders but not an open 3 pointer against VCU?

 

[L-T]

I agree. I do not think it's fair to characterize a player as "clueless on the floor" or a "weak link on defense" when he only played 73 minutes over the course of two seasons, even though his player efficiency rating and offensive efficiency rating were very competent during those two years.

Not playing team ball on offense? JD3's career assist% was 15.5, which is higher than Guyn, Kilpatrick, and KJ, the three guys he was competing against for playing time last year.

My pet peeve is the "Coach knows best" post. Basketball is not that complicated. Major college basketball is mostly marketing to teenagers. You need balance on offense and defense. JD3's career defensive rating is lower than Guyn's (lower is better). In any event, last year's team could have afforded to give a little on defense in exchange for offense.

Right with you on this one LR. What little I saw of JD3, I thought he was a gamer and a highly needed boost to our limited offensive capabilities. I thought he was adequate defensively for a young player as well.

 

[bearcat jeff]

Really we're revisiting JD3? I liked JD3 and would have liked to see him play some more but really? Sheez

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Right with you on this one LR. What little I saw of JD3, I thought he was a gamer and a highly needed boost to our limited offensive capabilities. I thought he was adequate defensively for a young player as well.

FYI, since JD3 left UC he has YET to play a second for Ball State.

Davis had yet to play for the Cardinals after joining the team mid-season last year and gaining eligibility for first semester during the summer.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...all-state-basketball-jeremiah-davis/18152285/

Jermaine Lawrence averaging 4 pts. 1 Reb for a 4-7 Manhattan club as well. Shooting 25% from 3 and 36% from 2 and 42% from the line and averaging 2 TO's a game.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Right with you on this one LR. What little I saw of JD3, I thought he was a gamer and a highly needed boost to our limited offensive capabilities. I thought he was adequate defensively for a young player as well.

You decided all that from the little you saw of him. Wow!!! You may be wasting yourself in whatever job you are doing if its not player analysis. Wait your not a landscaper are you????? LMAO!!!

 

[Bulldog01]

So you could make an open 3 pointer against 7th graders but not an open 3 pointer against VCU?

Heat of moment

 

[waterhead]

What I have learned over the years is that some Bearcat fan over-reaction is even worse than our offense has been. The number of irrational (impatient) fans we have is staggering.

It's OK to talk about long term trends but to place too much emphasis on individual games is irrational. Especially when the players learned their coach has a major medical issue and that he would not be coaching the game and possibly future games just hours before game time.

 

[waterhead]

Heat of moment

All of our 3 point shooters except Cobb has been in the heat of big games and made big shots. We saw that last year. With the exception of Thomas and Morman I feel like they are more than capable of making about 1 in 3 three pointers. I think Cobb will be possibly be the best of this group.

Last year they were comfortable and confident because they had SK as the focus and a bail out. This year they don't have that luxury but they didn't forget how to shoot...they just need their confidence to build. As long as Cobb, Sanders, KJ, and Caupain take the majority of our 3's we will be fine. I will throw in Moore as well.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

What I have learned over the years is that some Bearcat fan over-reaction is even worse than our offense has been. The number of irrational (impatient) fans we have is staggering.

It's OK to talk about long term trends but to place too much emphasis on individual games is irrational. Especially when the players learned their coach has a major medical issue and that he would not be coaching the game and possibly future games just hours before game time.

If the VCU game was our only loss, I'd agree. But people have been concerned about several of these "individual games". As the season keeps moving along, the bigger picture starts to come into focus. How many terrible "individual games" does it take to become a trend? In 10 games, we have had exactly 1 game where we have scored 70 points in regulation. We have also been held under 55 in regulation 6 times. You're a numbers guy, so you tell me...what's more irrational? Questioning the approach that has led to one poor offensive performance after another? Or hoping that we'll find the magical switch that takes the lid off the basket? Everyone always says that it gets harder to score in January...and that's a frightening thought.

 

[waterhead]

If the VCU game was our only loss, I'd agree. But people have been concerned about several of these "individual games". As the season keeps moving along, the bigger picture starts to come into focus. How many terrible "individual games" does it take to become a trend? In 10 games, we have had exactly 1 game where we have scored 70 points in regulation. We have also been held under 55 in regulation 6 times. You're a numbers guy, so you tell me...what's more irrational? Questioning the approach that has led to one poor offensive performance after another? Or hoping that we'll find the magical switch that takes the lid off the basket? Everyone always says that it gets harder to score in January...and that's a frightening thought.

As I see it we have two separate issues here. We have the long term trend under Cronin for having bad offensive teams. Using one or a few games to point that out is like beating a dead horse. Almost everyone will agree Cronin needs to get more production on the other end of the court.

Then we have a more immediate issue of this PARTICULAR team. A very young team with an inordinate amount of brand new pieces. A team that lost the heart and soul from last year and needs to establish a new one. A team that just lost it's coach. A team that has no veteran studs who have played more than a year...or vocal leaders.

I am concerned...don't get me wrong. I am concerned about the long term trend and I am concerned if we have a player or two who we can count on this team when we need it...like an SK (or even half an SK). But I was expecting this season to be a little bumpy based on the circumstances. I think we will see gradual improvement over the course of the year more so than most teams. We need confidence and we don't have any right now. When we get confidence more of the shots will fall and the inside out game will work more effectively.

You can look at this team right now and tell that nobody knows who the SK is suppose to be. Who should get the ball when the clock is running down. Who are we willing to clear one side of the court for? Gary Clark will be one of those guys in the future. Cobb is my next best bet. Caupain maybe. But until this gets established...it's going to look like a hodge podge out her there...and it does...and it doesn't look good

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I looked up the numbers from Mick's fitst team here just out of curiosity. With that random group of players we only scored under 55 points 1 time in the first 10 games and 2 times in the first 15 games. That team was so much less talented it isn't even funny...or was it? Lol Marcus Sikes averaged more ppg that year than anyone on this team up to this point. And he was the third leading scorer. I really wish I didn't look that up bc now my head hurts.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

The most disappointing thing for me so far has been the inconsistency of our guard play. Especially at the point. Last years team masked the fact we really played with no true PG. We walked the ball up and gave it to SK who in many cases scored or got fouled. We also were a very good rebounding team. JJ and Titus also erased many of our defensive mistakes.

This year we are trying to play a motion offense and are guards are not yet where they need to be in delivering the ball. We also have not found anyone who can get his own shot or get to the line when it gets late in the clock. Knocking down shots in many cases is about rythm and we don't have that PG that delivers the ball in rythm. TC and Cobb are more combo guards then PG. We are still a work in progress defensively and Shaq who I'm sure Mick wanted to be the guy to create for himself really hasn't been able to fill that role.

Next year Jennifer will be that guy who can run a break,break his defender down and get in the lane and deliver the ball for high percentage shots. The players around him will be much more comfortable. It all starts with the point. Last year it was masked because we boarded well and had SK who some games shot 20 FT's.

The real problem with this Teams offense is lack of True PG play. We also suffer from not having a true go to guy who puts pressure on the other teams defense. Right now we are very easy to guard. Double the ball when it goes in the post and collect the rebounds when the wings throw up the shots.

 

[waterhead]

The most disappointing thing for me so far has been the inconsistency of our guard play. Especially at the point. Last years team masked the fact we really played with no true PG. We walked the ball up and gave it to SK who in many cases scored or got fouled. We also were a very good rebounding team. JJ and Titus also erased many of our defensive mistakes.

This year we are trying to play a motion offense and are guards are not yet where they need to be in delivering the ball. We also have not found anyone who can get his own shot or get to the line when it gets late in the clock. Knocking down shots in many cases is about rythm and we don't have that PG that delivers the ball in rythm. TC and Cobb are more combo guards then PG. We are still a work in progress defensively and Shaq who I'm sure Mick wanted to be the guy to create for himself really hasn't been able to fill that role.

Next year Jennifer will be that guy who can run a break,break his defender down and get in the lane and deliver the ball for high percentage shots. The players around him will be much more comfortable. It all starts with the point. Last year it was masked because we boarded well and had SK who some games shot 20 FT's.

The real problem with this Teams offense is lack of True PG play. We also suffer from not having a true go to guy who puts pressure on the other teams defense. Right now we are very easy to guard. Double the ball when it goes in the post and collect the rebounds when the wings throw up the shots.

I agree with you about Jennifer and it's also why I'd rather see Cobb at the point. Caupain's only real move to get a shot off when the clock winds down is to put his shoulder down and drive and get fouled (hopefully). It works pretty well for him since he has good size. However, Cobb has shown the ability to keep the defense guessing because he is quick and shifty. He can make a long jumper, a running floater, or even a drive and step back J. He also has shown the guts to want to have the ball in his hands in big moments. I think his ball handling is better as well...because his dribble is much lower which allows him to change direction faster.

 

[cincrulz11]

PG position is fine. SG and SF are not fine.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Along with what Waite said, a lot of the problem from now until Cronin returns is there is zero leadership. There needs to be a SK on the floor reminding younger guys where to go and what to do. We have Shaq and Sanders who are not leaders in any way shape or form. Troy will be leader but he is not taking reigns yet.

 

[cincrulz11]

I agree with you about Jennifer and it's also why I'd rather see Cobb at the point. Caupain's only real move to get a shot off when the clock winds down is to put his shoulder down and drive and get fouled (hopefully). It works pretty well for him since he has good size. However, Cobb has shown the ability to keep the defense guessing because he is quick and shifty. He can make a long jumper, a running floater, or even a drive and step back J. He also has shown the guts to want to have the ball in his hands in big moments. I think his ball handling is better as well...because his dribble is much lower which allows him to change direction faster.

You know Cobb is only shooting 33% from the floor on the season. If you take out his 2 decent games, that drops down to 24%. That just won't cut it.

 

[cincrulz11]

Along with what Waite said, a lot of the problem from now until Cronin returns is there is zero leadership. There needs to be a SK on the floor reminding younger guys where to go and what to do. We have Shaq and Sanders who are not leaders in any way shape or form. Troy will be leader but he is not taking reigns yet.

This happens when the older guys are what we have. SK wasn't a leader as a SO either. We all saw the potential, but he took a back seat to more veteran guys even though none of them were real leaders.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

You know Cobb is only shooting 33% from the floor on the season. If you take out his 2 decent games, that drops down to 24%. That just won't cut it.

Why take out the 2 decent games?

 

[cincrulz11]

Why take out the 2 decent games?

Because they appear to be outliers at this point. His other 8 games he's 12/50. That's a big problem for this team.


But 33% for the season is really bad too.


I think Cobb has to be in our top 5 guys, I just want him to play better.