2016-2017 Season

[jacobkdoyle]

I don't see it. UC shot 34.8% from three last year but lost Cobb who shot 39.4% from the three and took 25.9% of our attempts.

You are probably right. Brst cases: I hope Caupain can be more selective and get his % up. I hope Evans can as well. Maybe Johnson can have a hot stretch that props up his season %. Hopefully Cumberland is legit high 30s. And hopefully Clark doesn't fall too much in love with the 3 to where he tanks his %. He thrives bc he's so damn efficient. Washington, Moore, Jenifer, and Scott will probably all be below the team average.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

So SB NATION just released its top 100 players.


UC had 2 players on the list: Gary Clark and.... Jacob Evans.


TC was not on the list oddly and was on the honorable mention. A bit odd to me considering his PPG and APG and lack of TO

http://www.sbnation.com/a/ncaa-basketball-preview-2016/top-100#n

Rob Gray Jr. over Caupain? I just don't see it.

 

[UCBearcats]

i think the general point is that no coach is perfect, and it then follows that a natural comparison is of the flaws of the current coach and the flaws of the previous coach, especially when that previous coach is credited with establishing the level of success it seems like the critics of the current coach would like to return to.

when it seems like a lot of the critics of the current coach were staunch supporters of the previous coach, i think it makes sense to compare the two to see if some of the conclusions being drawn aren't entirely rational.

I'll steal a line from my boy Jason S and say that if anyone wants to compare the success of Bob Huggins vs Mick Cronin then I can't help them. The two are in completely different universes when it comes to what they've accomplished. That plays a big role in how they were and are perceived. Huggins was able to get away with a lot of things because he accomplished a lot and frankly he had some personality traits that Mick lacks. To me that's neither here nor there.

If Mick Cronin was competing for championships every year, pulling in top recruits, getting top 5 rankings every year, getting one seeds, making Elite 8's, making a Final 4, selling out our arena, ect, ect, ect then I wouldn't be complaining about him. He's not so I do........it really is as simple as that.

If you choose not to look at what I've said above and understand those things then I cannot help you and we'll just always have to disagree about everything. My argument is about the success of a program, not of a singular coach, and I honestly couldn't give a rats a$$ who the next person is to bring us to that level. I'm not a I told you so guy so I really hope that one day I'm proved wrong about Mick and he suddenly catapults us into that next level, I'll be cheering for him and our program as loud as anyone at that point. Sadly, I don't see that happening and until it does I'll be team #FIREMICK and I won't be shy about letting all of you know.

 

[waterhead]

I don't see it. UC shot 34.8% from three last year but lost Cobb who shot 39.4% from the three and took 25.9% of our attempts.

I wouldn't expect Clark to maintain his % either. That being said...Cobb was shooting around 50% for about half the season. His % fell off the map second half.

I could see it happening though if we can get the ball down to the low post or if we can penetrate better giving us kick out opportunities for open shots.

Some fans think we need to work outside in rather than inside out. I think we should balance it out. If we rely on the 3 all year...I don't think we have the dead eye shooters to make that work extremely well.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

https://youtu.be/mKRHF0t_vrc

Dan Hoard with Kyle Washington.

 

[JasonS]

https://youtu.be/mKRHF0t_vrc

Dan Hoard with Kyle Washington.

Man, what an impressive young man. There are a lot of really good kids on this roster. It makes them very easy to root for while in a Bearcat jersey and after they graduate and move on. Thanks for sharing.

 

[waterhead]

https://youtu.be/mKRHF0t_vrc

Dan Hoard with Kyle Washington.

Very very very likeable guy!! Love his attitude. I can see him being a spokesman and leader for this team. Very positive outlook!

 

[ZCat]

Honest question, not trying to start stuff here, but, in your opinion Chad, does Mick have to build a staff that way if he wants an opportunity to win big? Or, is there an opportunity to bring former players on staff like Kenyon, Van Exel, or Logan to add some NBA credibility with the kids?

It isn't that hard. I like Mick, but come on. If Pitino doesn't mind hiring an AAU guy for his recruit pipeline, why not us? Get the best AAU coach you can and the best former NBA player you can get. Do BOTH!! Of course, try to get someone whom fits the program and city. Preferably a former bearcat, whom played in the league or someone from Midwest. And get someone whom complements you ( ie offensive expert) on the staff. Build a staff like you won't be here in 2 years if you don't win big. Go all out. Geez.

Can anyone tell us that any of our assistants are making a huge difference. I am all for loyalty and not cutting corners and hurting the future, but these are no brainers.

Chad is saying an AAU coach went from IU to UL, and was bringing in top talent?? Well why the he** dont we do that ( maybe it won't be same caliber assistant, but 1 tier less). This is the most disappointing thing I have heard about basketball in a long while outside of no B12.

 

[Chad Brendel]

Chad is saying an AAU coach went from IU to UL, and was bringing in top talent?? Well why the he** dont we do that ( maybe it won't be same caliber assistant, but 1 tier less). This is the most disappointing thing I have heard about basketball in a long while outside of no B12.

Kenny Johnson is making almost as much as all 3 UC assistants combined. He's one of less than 5 AAU guys that have been hired to a college staff and made an actual impact outside of landing one kid here and there and falling off the radar. It isn't some easy formula that you sell your soul for and instantly start landing 5 star kids...

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

Alabama would love to have our basketball pedigree and even they just landed two top 30 recruits, one is the absolute STUD Colin Sexton. Here in Cincinnati Mick settles for recruits that we beat out LIU-Brooklyn for. It's very frustrating....

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Alabama would love to have our basketball pedigree and even they just landed two top 30 recruits, one is the absolute STUD Colin Sexton. Here in Cincinnati Mick settles for recruits that we beat out LIU-Brooklyn for. It's very frustrating....

Brother as sad as it is you are really going to have to come to grips with the fact the landscape of college basketball has changed. Alabama is in the SEC a P5 conference. I posted data Earlier in the thread showing where top rated recruits where going. The AAC a non P5 school on a whole is lagging way behind. The big East is doing well but they are a basketball only league. Chad posted first hand experiences on what he has heard from recruits and handlers. Playing in the AAC is not a dream destination. You could argue we could help ourselves a bit more but in the end as long as we are on the outside looking in at the major conferences we will have a big obstacle to overcome. One I might add Mick has done a pretty good job of navigating through considering the circumstances. Non power 5 affiliation is a big obstacle.

 

[ZCat]

Kenny Johnson is making almost as much as all 3 UC assistants combined. He's one of less than 5 AAU guys that have been hired to a college staff and made an actual impact outside of landing one kid here and there and falling off the radar. It isn't some easy formula that you sell your soul for and instantly start landing 5 star kids...

Thanks Chad.sounds like we need to use our built in advantage of former NBA players, and assistants that can really coach.

 

[UCBearcats]

Brother as sad as it is you are really going to have to come to grips with the fact the landscape of college basketball has changed. Alabama is in the SEC a P5 conference. I posted data Earlier in the thread showing where top rated recruits where going. The AAC a non P5 school on a whole is lagging way behind. The big East is doing well but they are a basketball only league. Chad posted first hand experiences on what he has heard from recruits and handlers. Playing in the AAC is not a dream destination. You could argue we could help ourselves a bit more but in the end as long as we are on the outside looking in at the major conferences we will have a big obstacle to overcome. One I might add Mick has done a pretty good job of navigating through considering the circumstances. Non power 5 affiliation is a big obstacle.

WRONG.........the Big East isn't a P5 conference and they seem to be doing just fine. There is no P5 in college basketball, that's a football term.

Mick could get better players if he were a better recruiter, it's that simple. I'm not saying he's going to pull down top 10 recruits every year but it's not really about a guy's rating, it's about recruiting a guy who can play in your system and develop.

To his credit Mick's had a few wins on the trail, and he's had a lot of disappointing gets. There are schools currently not in the "P5" that are bringing in top recruits so to simply say that it can't be done because the landscape of basketball has changed is untrue.

 

[UCBearcats]

Again, I'm not huge on recruiting rankings but since so many seem to be let's use the most recent recruiting class rankings.

UConn comes in a #8, same conference as us.....apparently they don't subscribe to the belief that they can't complete for top talent because they're in the AAC. Good for them, never settle.

Gonzaga #14 - Not a P5 school
St. John's #23 - Not P5
Harvard #24 - Not P5
Xaver #28 - Not P5
UMass #33 - Not P5
BYU #36 - Not P5
VCU #43 - Not P5
Villanova #44 - Not P5
Butler #45 - Not P5
Providence #47 - Not P5
SMU #52 - Not P5
Seton Hall #55 - Not P5
Nevada #56 - Not P5

UC is #62............there's plenty of "P5" schools ranked above us as well who don't have near the tradition or success we've had. There's no reason why Mick cannot do a better job of recruiting. Quit making excuses for the guy at every single turn possible and just admit that he could do better.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

WRONG.........the Big East isn't a P5 conference and they seem to be doing just fine. There is no P5 in college basketball, that's a football term.

Mick could get better players if he were a better recruiter, it's that simple. I'm not saying he's going to pull down top 10 recruits every year but it's not really about a guy's rating, it's about recruiting a guy who can play in your system and develop.

To his credit Mick's had a few wins on the trail, and he's had a lot of disappointing gets. There are schools currently not in the "P5" that are bringing in top recruits so to simply say that it can't be done because the landscape of basketball has changed is untrue.

I think may be you miss read my comment but I did mention that the Big easy was a Basketball only school. Mick is a very good recruiter. Enough so that two HOF coaches hired him to do just that. Again the landscape in college basketball has changed tremendously as we rehashed earlier. He has done a very good job with the players he has gotten. Its very apparent that your standards and Mine are very different. To each his own.

 

[L-T]

Again, I'm not huge on recruiting rankings but since so many seem to be let's use the most recent recruiting class rankings.

UConn comes in a #8, same conference as us.....apparently they don't subscribe to the belief that they can't complete for top talent because they're in the AAC. Good for them, never settle.

Gonzaga #14 - Not a P5 school
St. John's #23 - Not P5
Harvard #24 - Not P5
Xaver #28 - Not P5
UMass #33 - Not P5
BYU #36 - Not P5
VCU #43 - Not P5
Villanova #44 - Not P5
Butler #45 - Not P5
Providence #47 - Not P5
SMU #52 - Not P5
Seton Hall #55 - Not P5
Nevada #56 - Not P5

UC is #62............there's plenty of "P5" schools ranked above us as well who don't have near the tradition or success we've had. There's no reason why Mick cannot do a better job of recruiting. Quit making excuses for the guy at every single turn possible and just admit that he could do better.

I don't know what rankings you are using, but the Rivals 2017 rankings have Western Kentucky at #7, Xavier at #8, plus many that you have mentioned. Even lowly Saint Louis has risen into the top 35. Many traditionally very weak P5 basketball programs are highly ranked for one reason....they recently hired good coaches who made the difference....like Auburn. This forum will continue to defend this coach with flawed facts and excuses. There is only one fact. He is a poor recruiter, probably for one big reason....nobody wants to come to this program and play in this God-awful offensive system.

Also, anyone that wants to somehow equate anything Cronin has done with even the worst of what Huggins did, is just comical, in his very last season, he recruited one of the best players in the nation...Devon Downey.....who was better than anyone Cronin has ever signed. He also got Eric Hicks, James White, Tony Babbitt, etc. In his later recruiting classes. Again, I'll take any of these guys over the best of Cronin's recruits.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Brother as sad as it is you are really going to have to come to grips with the fact the landscape of college basketball has changed. Alabama is in the SEC a P5 conference. I posted data Earlier in the thread showing where top rated recruits where going. The AAC a non P5 school on a whole is lagging way behind. The big East is doing well but they are a basketball only league. Chad posted first hand experiences on what he has heard from recruits and handlers. Playing in the AAC is not a dream destination. You could argue we could help ourselves a bit more but in the end as long as we are on the outside looking in at the major conferences we will have a big obstacle to overcome. One I might add Mick has done a pretty good job of navigating through considering the circumstances. Non power 5 affiliation is a big obstacle.

Waite the SEC is a joke in basketball. Wouldn't be much better than the American but for Kentucky. How many teams did they get in the Tournament last year?

Does your obsession with "landscape" just get applied blindly across the board? So any team no matter what should out recruit us from those conferences? There's definitely a drop-off at some point in those conferences, whether you admit it or not.

It's not that black and white. Your logic suggests that we should be out recruited by DePaul, Georgia, Rutgers, Washington State, and many others...while being on par with Colorado State, East Carolina, and Louisiana-Lafayette. We all get your point on this. You've said it 1,000,000 times. And to an extent, it isn't wrong. But it just rings as an excuse when you apply it the way you do.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I think may be you miss read my comment but I did mention that the Big easy was a Basketball only school. Mick is a very good recruiter. Enough so that two HOF coaches hired him to do just that. Again the landscape in college basketball has changed tremendously as we rehashed earlier. He has done a very good job with the players he has gotten. Its very apparent that your standards and Mine are very different. To each his own.

Can you respond to the list of schools in lesser conferences getting better recruits? I'm genuinely curious to hear your explanation for that. From my pov it looks like you've backed yourself into a corner defending the coach so hard no matter what, that you'll literally say anything to support him. I get that you like him. That's fine. No one can say he's done a bad job. But your credibility takes a big hit bc anytime anyone says the slightest thing that could be viewed as critical, you jump in and say whatever you have to to try and put out the flames. Coach Cronin isn't perfect. He'd be the first to tell you that he isn't. So vehemently defending any single flaw at all no matter what just makes you come across as an apologist.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

For the record, I'm not as upset with recruiting as others. I just hate excuses. Especially when they don't apply to other schools in the same situation.

 

[UCBearcats]

I don't know what rankings you are using, but the Rivals 2017 rankings have Western Kentucky at #7, Xavier at #8, plus many that you have mentioned. Even lowly Saint Louis has risen into the top 35. Many traditionally very weak P5 basketball programs are highly ranked for one reason....they recently hired good coaches who made the difference....like Auburn. This forum will continue to defend this coach with flawed facts and excuses. There is only one fact. He is a poor recruiter, probably for one big reason....nobody wants to come to this program and play in this God-awful offensive system.

Also, anyone that wants to somehow equate anything Cronin has done with even the worst of what Huggins did, is just comical, in his very last season, he recruited one of the best players in the nation...Devon Downey.....who was better than anyone Cronin has ever signed. He also got Eric Hicks, James White, Tony Babbitt, etc. In his later recruiting classes. Again, I'll take any of these guys over the best of Cronin's recruits.

Those were the final rankings for the 2016 classes, not for the upcoming 2017 class.