2016-2017 Season

BearcatTalk

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What seed will UC get this year in the Tournament?

  • 1-4

    Votes: 24 38.7%
  • 5-8

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • 9-16

    Votes: 3 4.8%

  • Total voters
    62
Ok...how about this? In Cronin's 10 years as coach, his average national ranking in points scored per game is 208, well into the bottom half of all Div. 1 schools, and certainly not indicative of a program that is historically ranked as one of the greatest of all time.

As a comparison, the previous coach, who many of us annually complained about how horrible his offense was, averaged an annual ranking of 67th best in points scored per game, with half of his seasons being in the Top 30 in points scored.

If we assume that neither coach was the greatest offensive coach, then the difference is probably in the talent that they recruited.

The positive news in that the 2016-2017 team is currently ranked 149th in scoring which would be the best of the Cronin era.

This probably explains the difficulty in recruiting offensive talent to our university.

Although I agree about offense I think it's better we tie it to efficiency rather than points scored. In a low tempo game you need to be awfully efficient because you aren't going to score a lot of points. We haven't been efficient. If we can improve efficiency we can be a team like VA or Wisconsin was the past couple of years and hope to get ranked higher.

We can't be low in efficiency and still be very good but we can be low(ish) in points.
 
This is not directed completely at you but to the The Knights of the Kid's Table in general. Why not tell him how he's wrong or engage in a logical debate?? After all, this is a Bearcat discussion board. I hear a lot of whining from the Mick supporters about the negativity but I rarely see anyone who's willing to tell someone how they're wrong. It's usually just a completely dismissive comment like the one above or a completely irrelevant comparison to our head coach from 12 years ago.

Jacob's response was much better than mine.
 
It's after every single topic. The topic could be about Xavier losing and results to Cronin being terrible. It's childish. I turned two friends away from joining because told them how it would honestly ruin your day and put it all in a negative perspective. One buddy is best friends with Gary, I'm like dude you don't want to hear what some of these guys say and how they put a negative spin on about everything. I wish I was blocked honestly or could be banned. Jake go ahead and do it if you can. I'm sure youll inbox me at some point today.

I appreciate your opinion, but I hope you realize that if I had a ten dollar bill for every person who has told me they wouldn't come near this site for just the exact thing that UCBearcats is referring to, I'd be a millionaire. I'm sorry your two friends are unable to discuss all facets of our program without getting their feelings hurt.
 
Although I agree about offense I think it's better we tie it to efficiency rather than points scored. In a low tempo game you need to be awfully efficient because you aren't going to score a lot of points. We haven't been efficient. If we can improve efficiency we can be a team like VA or Wisconsin was the past couple of years and hope to get ranked higher.

We can't be low in efficiency and still be very good but we can be low(ish) in points.

Agreed. Good point!
 
It's after every single topic. The topic could be about Xavier losing and results to Cronin being terrible. It's childish. I turned two friends away from joining because told them how it would honestly ruin your day and put it all in a negative perspective. One buddy is best friends with Gary, I'm like dude you don't want to hear what some of these guys say and how they put a negative spin on about everything. I wish I was blocked honestly or could be banned. Jake go ahead and do it if you can. I'm sure youll inbox me at some point today.

Wtf? What are you doing here if you want to be blocked? Just don't come here.
 
Disagree, the system (or lack of one) is the entire problem that has over arched this program under Cronin.

Kilpatrick was about as close to a pure shooter as you're going to get and we've had other players who were capable of shooting better if put in the right position to do so.

As someone mentioned earlier so many of our "good" looks come late in the shot clock when we're rushed into putting the ball towards the basket. Our inability or refusal to move on offense without the ball, to set screens, and to get open looks early in the offensive set is a huge contributor to our lack of of success shooting the ball.

We aren't going to recruit Steph Curry or JJ Redick to play at UC. But even those guys are made great in part because they played or play in systems that allow them to move without the ball. Both of those players are constantly moving without the ball and many times weaving through multiple screens before finally getting into a position where they can catch and shoot with space.

When was the last time your ever saw an offense under Mick Cronin move without the ball? When was the last time you saw the use of on or off ball screens to free up a player for a shot? When was the last time you saw a player cut to the rim and receive a pass that allowed them to make a layup or spot up for a mid range shot?

These things don't happen and all contribute to our inability to shoot at a higher percentage. Good players are made great by coaches. To Mick's credit he has made great defenders out of some players who otherwise might not have been but great offense is what separates teams like UC from teams that have a legitimate chance to compete for championships.

Look at the cinderella teams that make runs in the NCAAs. When was the last time you saw a team like that make a run deep into the tourney on the heels of their lock-down defense??? It doesn't happen, it happens because despite their lack of top tier talent they have coaching that allows them to be dynamic on offense. The team that scores the most points wins the game. We might be able to bully ball the weak teams no our schedule and grind out the rock fights, and we might be able to occasionally beat a good team because we can make them uncomfortable and grind them down. We will NEVER make a sustained run as a team unless we learn to play the other 50% of the game that our coach doesn't have the capacity or desire to teach.

How can you not see that's the direction of the program? Our ppg as a team have gone up for how many years in a row now? We are scoring more and more efficiently.
 
How can you not see that's the direction of the program? Our ppg as a team have gone up for how many years in a row now? We are scoring more and more efficiently.

Since the sweet 16 which was 68.2, then dropped to 66.5, then went up to 68.4, then went down to 62.1, then up last year to 73.3, so to answer your question as to how many years in a row that ppg have increased, it is a whopping 1 year in a row!
 
Looking forward to a great game this Saturday as well as to the rest of the current University of Cincinnati Men's basketball season! Go Cats!
 
Right now we're 45th in KenPom AdjO and I think most people would agree that we haven't really even played all that well. We were pretty good in the Brown game, but the 1st half of Albany wasnt good and our 3 pt shooting overall hasn't been there. So while the competition will improve, our 3 pt shooting is likely to as well. Kind of evens out. I'm very much on the record as being skeptical about being as efficient as we need to be with a tempo in the 300s. But so far with this group, that hasn't proven to be so. And we aren't doing anything particularly unsustainable. Long way to go. But at this point, you have to go back to previous seasons to have any major gripes. I'm not willing to do that bc I don't see the point. With the amount of turnover on college rosters, it's apples and oranges. If things start to slip, I'd understand using history as a predictor. But until then, it's just borrowing trouble imo. If there's ever a time to be hopeful and excited about your team, it's now. We've had a chance to see the product in real action, and for the most part, it's pretty enjoyable. Whether I'm singing this tune all season remains to be seen. But until then, let's get it!
 
Actually, dismissive comments like yours and one above it do way more harm.

Just my opinion

Well not surprised to hear you agreeing, you're right on the hate mick train so..

And you guys turn literally every discussion into mick is a terrible coach, it's not just about us stating why we don't think so.. It's all been said over and over, that's the idea behind the broken record comment. Unless either of you are adding something useful to the conversation instead of just saying how bad we are/have been I just don't see the point. You say we mick can't change, but I think it's pretty clear he is. He needs to continue on this path, but our teams have gotten better offensively year after year. And this year and next we have some real threats. How about just having a positive outlook about the team for once. We know we know you've had one in the past and blah blah, well it's a new year, new faces, better team, be excited! Anyway, just don't see the point of being so damn negative all the time, we all want the team to win. Well said my peace, GO CATS!
 
Right now we're 45th in KenPom AdjO and I think most people would agree that we haven't really even played all that well. We were pretty good in the Brown game, but the 1st half of Albany wasnt good and our 3 pt shooting overall hasn't been there. So while the competition will improve, our 3 pt shooting is likely to as well. Kind of evens out. I'm very much on the record as being skeptical about being as efficient as we need to be with a tempo in the 300s. But so far with this group, that hasn't proven to be so. And we aren't doing anything particularly unsustainable. Long way to go. But at this point, you have to go back to previous seasons to have any major gripes. I'm not willing to do that bc I don't see the point. With the amount of turnover on college rosters, it's apples and oranges. If things start to slip, I'd understand using history as a predictor. But until then, it's just borrowing trouble imo. If there's ever a time to be hopeful and excited about your team, it's now. We've had a chance to see the product in real action, and for the most part, it's pretty enjoyable. Whether I'm singing this tune all season remains to be seen. But until then, let's get it!
Great post!

A+

Can I get an amen!
 
How can you not see that's the direction of the program? Our ppg as a team have gone up for how many years in a row now? We are scoring more and more efficiently.


going back to the 2012-13 season up to last season.

Non-Conference PPG
2012 - 78.38ppg
2013 - 73.07ppg
2014 - 62.53ppg
2015 - 78.15ppg

Conference PPG (Including Conf Tourney)
2012 - 59.35ppg
2013 - 65.90ppg
2014 - 62.26ppg
2015 - 69.78ppg

Full Season PPG
2012 - 68.86ppg
2013 - 69.48ppg
2014 - 62.40ppg
2015 - 73.97ppg

I don't really see where you think they are getting better offensively. One season avg over 70ppg and 0 seasons in conference play.

every year people get all excited and say the offense is going to be unstoppable because we dropped 100+ on some sisters of the poor school but once we hit conference play or play an actual team in non conference we score in the 50's and 60's. SO wait until we play someone decent and get into conference play before you start saying that the offense has improved.
 
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