2016 General Recruiting

[UCalum08]

I can't help but feel like having someone like Kenyon Martin on the staff would boost our credibility with recruits.

Add Van Exel to that too. Could you imagine?!?

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Everything is alwways an uphill battle in the program. Hard for me to accept that we just flat out have no shot at most local/regional talent.

 

[HarryBosch]

How much time/resources would you like them to invest on Nike kids that aren't coming to UC no matter how hard they recruit them???

Who the Hell are they devoting their time and resources to?

 

[jds513]

Who the Hell are they devoting their time and resources to?

Chad is right. It's almost a certainty that high school kids on Nike teams will attend Nike schools. That is why Nike, Under Armour, and Adidas throw all this money at AAU squads and sponsored tournaments. It is to get these kids to attend a school with their brand. And it is working. I read a good article about it recently. I'll see if I can find it.

Continuation... I'm not saying Mick isn't an underwhelming recruiter. But that's just the way things work. Nike kids go to Nike schools.

 

[Bearcat Rob]

Everything is alwways an uphill battle in the program. Hard for me to accept that we just flat out have no shot at most local/regional talent.

There isn't that many local studs coming out of cinci in basketball. Mick fought off huge schools to land local grown yancy gates, and did the same with cumberland. Also he got Kevin Johnson who had some bigger offers as well, I think he's done decent locally.

I hear all this talk about X out recruiting us, I don't see it. X needed a big man had guarenteed minutes to offer (they all knew jalen Reynolds was leaving) they went hard for former espn top 100 kyle washington who chose mick over them, they had to resort to a former 2 star recruit transfer from Norfolk state. They went after local top 50 cumberland with similar minutes available and missed on him cuz he chose mick. Yes they got some good gets in sumner and bluiett but the likes of cumberland evans and clark are vary comparable . I'd say we are easily out recruiting them locally (they've only gotten semaj in recent memory). Of our ten guys available next season on scholarship 6 are former four stars (I'm counting moore as a four star cuz that's what he was when he committed) that's 60% of our roster that is four star recruits, not even counting troy who clearly should have been a top 100 recruit, that probably stacks up very well and even in our favor compared to a lot of teams across the country and the team across the city

Now could it be better? Yes. Does mick need to produce this season and do something in the tournament? Absolutely I expect more. But he has been to six straight tourneys either he is a great coach or his recruits aren't awful cuz a bad coach can't get bad recruits and make the tourney like that. Look at our core of players in troy evans cumerbalnd clark and washington very talented highly ranked guys. Our tournament streak will continue to grow well into the future. We will be thin this year but we will also be very talented if we stay healthy and out of foul trouble it SHOULD be a very successful season and if we exit the tourney in the first weekend I'll be pissed as ever at the staff but right now I'm very excited for the season as I think we are going to be very good. Just thinking of troy clark and evans after another whole off season gets me pumped up

 

[UCalum08]

Chad is right. It's almost a certainty that high school kids on Nike teams will attend Nike schools. That is why Nike, Under Armour, and Adidas throw all this money at AAU squads and sponsored tournaments. It is to get these kids to attend a school with their brand. And it is working. I read a good article about it recently. I'll see if I can find it.

Continuation... I'm not saying Mick isn't an underwhelming recruiter. But that's just the way things work. Nike kids go to Nike schools.

This may be a dumb question but oh well. I haven't really read into this topic but...

Why do kids who play for a Nike AAU team go to Nike colleges? What is in it for the kid? Why do UA sponsored kids go to other UA colleges? Etc.. I am trying to understand this version of segregation.

 

[justinhub2003]

There isn't that many local studs coming out of cinci in basketball. Mick fought off huge schools to land local grown yancy gates, and did the same with cumberland. Also he got Kevin Johnson who had some bigger offers as well, I think he's done decent locally.

I hear all this talk about X out recruiting us, I don't see it. X needed a big man had guarenteed minutes to offer (they all knew jalen Reynolds was leaving) they went hard for former espn top 100 kyle washington who chose mick over them, they had to resort to a former 2 star recruit transfer from Norfolk state. They went after local top 50 cumberland with similar minutes available and missed on him cuz he chose mick. Yes they got some good gets in sumner and bluiett but the likes of cumberland evans and clark are vary comparable . I'd say we are easily out recruiting them locally (they've only gotten semaj in recent memory). Of our ten guys available next season on scholarship 6 are former four stars (I'm counting moore as a four star cuz that's what he was when he committed) that's 60% of our roster that is four star recruits, not even counting troy who clearly should have been a top 100 recruit, that probably stacks up very well and even in our favor compared to a lot of teams across the country and the team across the city

Now could it be better? Yes. Does mick need to produce this season and do something in the tournament? Absolutely I expect more. But he has been to six straight tourneys either he is a great coach or his recruits aren't awful cuz a bad coach can't get bad recruits and make the tourney like that. Look at our core of players in troy evans cumerbalnd clark and washington very talented highly ranked guys. Our tournament streak will continue to grow well into the future. We will be thin this year but we will also be very talented if we stay healthy and out of foul trouble it SHOULD be a very successful season and if we exit the tourney in the first weekend I'll be pissed as ever at the staff but right now I'm very excited for the season as I think we are going to be very good. Just thinking of troy clark and evans after another whole off season gets me pumped up

Yea and I looked into Xavier active roster for next year and they have 2 consensus 4 star recruits (rivals, espn and scout): Bluiett,& Gooden and 5x 4 star recruits total ( Bluiett, goodin, jones, Macura & sumner). The Rest are 3 star recruits or lower.

So 5 out of 10 for X


But for UC Im counting 5 consensus : Clark, Evans, Washington, Moore and Cumberland
And 6 if you include jenifer who was a 4 star according to ESPN but no one else.
KJ was a consensus 3 star, as was Troy and Brooks. And Tre Scott

Also we did have a 5 star with Jermaine Lawrence. It just so happened that he got in his own way and now is not playing anywhere I dont believe

I do think that Xavier tends to get better offensive recruits and UC gets better athletes and thus better defenders. Also, I am a Mick supporter through and through but we do need an assistant who is a great offensive coach. Mack vs Mick in offensive coaching is not even close

 

[BearcatSpaniard513]

I'm counting moore as a four star cuz that's what he was when he committed

Honestly Moore was pretty solid in the tourney game before he got hurt. Maybe we shouldn't write him completely off just yet. Of course Washington and Clark will get the majority of minutes, but there's NO experience past them. Moore is going to be an upperclassman backing them up. Throw Brooks and Scott in the mix and they'll play when needed. Hopefully a year in the program was helpful for Tre. I could see him getting minutes early. I remember hearing how great of a passer he was. He might fit in nice when we're running it up against Rhode Island at the start of the year. Hopefully Mick plays Moore, Scott and Brooks a ton early on in the year...

 

[Bearcat Rob]

Yea and I looked into Xavier active roster for next year and they have 2 consensus 4 star recruits (rivals, espn and scout): Bluiett,& Gooden and 5x 4 star recruits total ( Bluiett, goodin, jones, Macura & sumner). The Rest are 3 star recruits or lower.

So 5 out of 10 for X


But for UC Im counting 5 consensus : Clark, Evans, Washington, Moore and Cumberland
And 6 if you include jenifer who was a 4 star according to ESPN but no one else.
KJ was a consensus 3 star, as was Troy and Brooks. And Tre Scott

Also we did have a 5 star with Jermaine Lawrence. It just so happened that he got in his own way and now is not playing anywhere I dont believe

I do think that Xavier tends to get better offensive recruits and UC gets better athletes and thus better defenders. Also, I am a Mick supporter through and through but we do need an assistant who is a great offensive coach. Mack vs Mick in offensive coaching is not even close

I get and tend to agree about the Athletism vs skill comparison. But when talking about the 6 out 10 I was referring to espn where jennifer is a four star.

 

[Bearcat Rob]

Honestly Moore was pretty solid in the tourney game before he got hurt. Maybe we shouldn't write him completely off just yet. Of course Washington and Clark will get the majority of minutes, but there's NO experience past them. Moore is going to be an upperclassman backing them up. Throw Brooks and Scott in the mix and they'll play when needed. Hopefully a year in the program was helpful for Tre. I could see him getting minutes early. I remember hearing how great of a passer he was. He might fit in nice when we're running it up against Rhode Island at the start of the year. Hopefully Mick plays Moore, Scott and Brooks a ton early on in the year...

Quadri did show a little offensively against st joes I was actually a little impressed. But he is so slow footed and such a slow first jump he's a huge liability on defense. He is plenty big and strong hopefully he's working endlessly on footwork and quickness cuz the offensive rebounds he gives up kill us. He does have some skill offesively and if he knows and understands his role offensively he is fine. I don't think he will ever be quick enough to guard the four so I see him as a center only. I believe he will be ahead of brooks on the depth chart to start the season

 

[culverrd]

There isn't that many local studs coming out of cinci in basketball. Mick fought off huge schools to land local grown yancy gates, and did the same with cumberland. Also he got Kevin Johnson who had some bigger offers as well, I think he's done decent locally.

I hear all this talk about X out recruiting us, I don't see it. X needed a big man had guarenteed minutes to offer (they all knew jalen Reynolds was leaving) they went hard for former espn top 100 kyle washington who chose mick over them, they had to resort to a former 2 star recruit transfer from Norfolk state. They went after local top 50 cumberland with similar minutes available and missed on him cuz he chose mick. Yes they got some good gets in sumner and bluiett but the likes of cumberland evans and clark are vary comparable . I'd say we are easily out recruiting them locally (they've only gotten semaj in recent memory). Of our ten guys available next season on scholarship 6 are former four stars (I'm counting moore as a four star cuz that's what he was when he committed) that's 60% of our roster that is four star recruits, not even counting troy who clearly should have been a top 100 recruit, that probably stacks up very well and even in our favor compared to a lot of teams across the country and the team across the city

Now could it be better? Yes. Does mick need to produce this season and do something in the tournament? Absolutely I expect more. But he has been to six straight tourneys either he is a great coach or his recruits aren't awful cuz a bad coach can't get bad recruits and make the tourney like that. Look at our core of players in troy evans cumerbalnd clark and washington very talented highly ranked guys. Our tournament streak will continue to grow well into the future. We will be thin this year but we will also be very talented if we stay healthy and out of foul trouble it SHOULD be a very successful season and if we exit the tourney in the first weekend I'll be pissed as ever at the staff but right now I'm very excited for the season as I think we are going to be very good. Just thinking of troy clark and evans after another whole off season gets me pumped up

Not sure what recruiting you have been looking at.

ESPN has Xaviers 2016 class as the #20 recruiting class in the nation and UC at #40 they have 3 4star guys 2 of them in the top 100 and we have 1 4star in the top 100 and 1 3star.

2015 recruiting classes: Neither one of us had a top 40 recruiting class we picked up 2 4star guys 1 3star they had 1 4star.

2014: Xavier had the #23 ranked recruiting class we were not in the top 40 again. They had 2 top 100 guys who were 4 stars and 4 3 star guys. We had 1 4 star a 3 star and 3 un-ranked Jucos.

They clearly have been out recruiting us and that should not be happening.

 

[Chad Brendel]

This may be a dumb question but oh well. I haven't really read into this topic but...

Why do kids who play for a Nike AAU team go to Nike colleges? What is in it for the kid? Why do UA sponsored kids go to other UA colleges? Etc.. I am trying to understand this version of segregation.

Kind of a loaded question with a lot of answers, but there are two that stand out as to why kids stay loyal to the brand they grow up with.

1. The shoe companies are spending millions to create their leagues, camps, international tournaments, all star games and so on. While playing in those high exposure situations, the player greatly benefits in their development and a sense of brand loyalty is formed. That loyalty is rewarded by staying under the same umbrella when picking a college, and this holds especially true for the guys that are on those circuits starting from the time they enter high school. It isn't as much of a factor for guys like Gary Clark and Jarron Cumberland that only played on the Nike circuit for their final season, but the influences from part #2 are still working hard to keep them in the "family".

2. More than ever the people running a kids recruitment are the same people that brought them in to whatever shoe brand team they play for. While this mostly gets blamed on AAU, it is also very true for most of the power prep and high school programs that are sponsored by the shoe companies as well. The more loyal your program is to the brand (as long as the talent matches), the higher up the food chain you move.

Nike changed everything with the creation of the EYBL, and they typically have between 60-70% of the top 100 players playing on their circuit. They obviously fill their camps, all star games and international events with those players and with all of that cash and time invested in each kid there is an expectation to keep dancing with who brought you in return...

 

[culverrd]

Kind of a loaded question with a lot of answers, but there are two that stand out as to why kids stay loyal to the brand they grow up with.

1. The shoe companies are spending millions to create their leagues, camps, international tournaments, all star games and so on. While playing in those high exposure situations, the player greatly benefits in their development and a sense of brand loyalty is formed. That loyalty is rewarded by staying under the same umbrella when picking a college, and this holds especially true for the guys that are on those circuits starting from the time they enter high school. It isn't as much of a factor for guys like Gary Clark and Jarron Cumberland that only played on the Nike circuit for their final season, but the influences from part #2 are still working hard to keep them in the "family".

2. More than ever the people running a kids recruitment are the same people that brought them in to whatever shoe brand team they play for. While this mostly gets blamed on AAU, it is also very true for most of the power prep and high school programs that are sponsored by the shoe companies as well. The more loyal your program is to the brand (as long as the talent matches), the higher up the food chain you move.

Nike changed everything with the creation of the EYBL, and they typically have between 60-70% of the top 100 players playing on their circuit. They obviously fill their camps, all star games and international events with those players and with all of that cash and time invested in each kid there is an expectation to keep dancing with who brought you in return...

I think they might have some influence on the kids but I think its more of kids know if they play in the EYBL circuit they are going to get picked up by a high major team and it just happens to be that most and more high major teams are sponsored by Nike than any of the other brands.

Also this excuse doesnt hold true for example:

Markell Johnson interest in Louisville (Adidas), Florida(Nike), NC State(Adidas), West Virginia(Nike) and Xavier(Nike).

Darius Bazely interest in Ohio State (Nike), Dayton(Nike), West Virginia(Nike), Butler(Nike), Xavier(Nike), Indiana (Adidas) and Michigan(Adidas)

Yeah most are Nike but they are still considering schools who arent Nike. Like I said just are more high major teams sponsored by Nike than UA and Adidas...

 

[Bearcat Rob]

Not sure what recruiting you have been looking at.

ESPN has Xaviers 2016 class as the #20 recruiting class in the nation and UC at #40 they have 3 4star guys 2 of them in the top 100 and we have 1 4star in the top 100 and 1 3star.

2015 recruiting classes: Neither one of us had a top 40 recruiting class we picked up 2 4star guys 1 3star they had 1 4star.

2014: Xavier had the #23 ranked recruiting class we were not in the top 40 again. They had 2 top 100 guys who were 4 stars and 4 3 star guys. We had 1 4 star a 3 star and 3 un-ranked Jucos.

They clearly have been out recruiting us and that should not be happening.

This is what I'm saying xavier gets these stud recruits right? Well let's take a look at last year and their "greatest team ever" as an example. Of there 11 or 12 scholarship players just two where espn top 100 recruits in the final rankings. They find diamonds in the rough as well, Maccura and Farr two of their best players where three stars. Next season their center spot will be occupied by a two star and a three star, they aren't killing it like you guys think and yes they get do get some good high rated players like blurry but so do we with a guy like Cumberland. If Chris Mack is so great why has he sent 0 players to the nba? Why do his best players often leave early for the d league or over seas (semaj, Reynolds) or have to transfer out (Lyons, wells) ? Why has he missed the touney twice in the past five or so years one season even missing out on the NIT? And yes I really dislike Xavier haha

 

[Chad Brendel]

I think they might have some influence on the kids but I think its more of kids know if they play in the EYBL circuit they are going to get picked up by a high major team and it just happens to be that most and more high major teams are sponsored by Nike than any of the other brands.

Also this excuse doesnt hold true for example:

Markell Johnson interest in Louisville (Adidas), Florida(Nike), NC State(Adidas), West Virginia(Nike) and Xavier(Nike).

Darius Bazely interest in Ohio State (Nike), Dayton(Nike), West Virginia(Nike), Butler(Nike), Xavier(Nike), Indiana (Adidas) and Michigan(Adidas)

Yeah most are Nike but they are still considering schools who arent Nike. Like I said just are more high major teams sponsored by Nike than UA and Adidas...

School lists are garbage and for fans to sign up to sites like mine to get the latest news on a kid they far more often than not have no chance to get. When they do have that chance, I'd suggest you look to the bench to see the guys on that staff from the rival shoe company getting paid a lot of money to land a few kids they couldn't otherwise get. Kenny Johnson had zero experience coahing outside of running the Team Takeover 16U squad before IU and then Louisville paid a fortune to get him on their bench and working the DMV. Kenny is still seen as a Nike guy, and one of the few that will be even allowed to get seriously involved with many Nike kids from the DMV.

I know your next "hot take" will be just to hire someone from those programs. When you come up with the 4-500,000 large to make that happen for a guy that actually matters, let me know...

 

[Chad Brendel]

I think they might have some influence on the kids but I think its more of kids know if they play in the EYBL circuit they are going to get picked up by a high major team and it just happens to be that most and more high major teams are sponsored by Nike than any of the other brands.

On this, you couldn't possibly be more wrong if you tried. I've been deeply rooted in this culture for a decade, and I am speaking very openly about how things go down. If you aren't interested in hearing it because you think you know better, I'm done even trying to explain it...

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

Even if we were a Nike school Mick would have a different excuse. Permanent little man syndrome.

 

[Bearcat513]

Even if we were a Nike school Mick would have a different excuse. Permanent little man syndrome.

I expect more from you when I see your name post than this. You don't have to love Mick, but to just troll, troll, troll every post now is quite annoying.

 

[culverrd]

On this, you couldn't possibly be more wrong if you tried. I've been deeply rooted in this culture for a decade, and I am speaking very openly about how things go down. If you aren't interested in hearing it because you think you know better, I'm done even trying to explain it...

I appreciate your opinions and outlooks on alot of things and think you are pretty educated on the game and recruiting process. Alot more educated than many. I also have been in the AAU circuit coaching for awhile now. I just honestly think alot of this crap is excuses for not getting the job done. I'd like to hear him and the other assistants pitches to these kids compared to some of the great recruiters out there right now. Just being honest I think that is where we are falling short.

 

[Bearcat513]

I don't remember if it was this thread or not, but someone mentioned Van Exel being contacted for an assistant position somewhere. Is there any chance he winds up at UC? I've said before I'd love for him to join. Most people think Kenyon as the next hire, but I'd want van Exel first.