Attendance

[Thegreatone]

I agree with Ralph here. I think the administration realizes this too. There is only so much you can do about the Huggins situation and all the players involved aren't even around UC any more. It is critical that the administration stay patient and work to build a new fan base to go along with us die hards.

If you can dissect through Ralphs humor he has some good points.

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

I loved what coach huggs and AK did here at UC and I will always be fond of that memory. However if you saw the way things went down in the final radio show in Ak's year where both he and huggins were on, you would realize they both wanted nothing other than this program to fail...

 

[nparker1]

My biggest issue/biggest curiosity with the attendance is the students. Watching the game on tv, the student section does not look to be filled. What else are they doing? The tickets are still free I think. The student section has been the biggest disappointment for me. I know when I was a student there beginning in 2000, i never missed a game. Not that I am a great example of a model student, but I would miss quizzes in order to stand in line to get basketball tickets. Lets hope the kids start showing up, and start rocking the 'shoe. This team deserves some energy, and the student section can be the catalyst for change in environment.
Go Bearcats!

 

[swg]

Partially the economy. Part bad weather. Part Huggs. Part ambivalence. Part Mick-hating.

Lots of reasons why fans don't come out. I say find one. Support the team.

 

[Juliepitzer]

The fans do support our team. We always have a house full of people watch every game and the place rocks. The problem with my group of friends is that noone is willing to spend money which would go to the university. Some of it is aimed at Mick, sure. A lot of it is aimed at Thomas. A lot of resentment still lingers over how Coach Kennedy was treated and the lack of an apology from the University on that matter. As far as Huggs, we all knew it was time for him to step down and unfortunately he had to be kicked. But calling folks Huggafiles and fair weathered fans for simply standing for what they believe in makes matters so much worse. You alienate a fan base our team needs and I wish it would stop. This is bush league and should be reserved for those folks in Norwood. Those who have been alienated (what everyone seems to call haters) will come back eventually but only when they feel welcomed and their voices heard. It would help if Mick and Thomas would get out there and meet some of these fans so bridges can be built.

Now back on post subject. What you are seeing in my belief is not a disatisfaction with the team, Cronin, or the schedule but more about how the University treats people when it no longer has use for them.

 

[nparker1]

The fans do support our team. We always have a house full of people watch every game and the place rocks. The problem with my group of friends is that noone is willing to spend money which would go to the university. Some of it is aimed at Mick, sure. A lot of it is aimed at Thomas. A lot of resentment still lingers over how Coach Kennedy was treated and the lack of an apology from the University on that matter. As far as Huggs, we all knew it was time for him to step down and unfortunately he had to be kicked. But calling folks Huggafiles and fair weathered fans for simply standing for what they believe in makes matters so much worse. You alienate a fan base our team needs and I wish it would stop. This is bush league and should be reserved for those folks in Norwood. Those who have been alienated (what everyone seems to call haters) will come back eventually but only when they feel welcomed and their voices heard. It would help if Mick and Thomas would get out there and meet some of these fans so bridges can be built.

Now back on post subject. What you are seeing in my belief is not a disatisfaction with the team, Cronin, or the schedule but more about how the University treats people when it no longer has use for them.

The fact that people are resentful of the treatment on Kennedy and using that as an excuse not to support the school financially is sad. From the rumors and from Kennedy's happiness to be in the SEC, I do not resent UC. At the time of the famous radio post game, I was frustrated. However that frustration ended when they brought back Cronin. Mike Thomas and Cronin are not Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis. Thomas and Cronin are showing efforts to reestablish the basketball program. Hopefully some of these fans will eventually have a change of opinion.
Go Bearcats!

 

[TheLongHaul]

ummm....Cronin has done several meet and greet over the years.

AK doesn't deserve an apology for what he did to the university.

 

[bearcat jeff]

Hold up a minute, bud. Calm down. Read the words written, and posts prior. I said these things snowballed right into a whole other mess of issues. That they're all a cause.

Let me try listing them again: A massive rebuilding project. A terrible economy. An ever growing lazy population. The advent of home theatre.

I NEVER said that was the sole reason. In fact, if you would read what I said, you would realize I was actually providing any and every reason other than that, I was disputing that idea. I don't think people stay b/c Huggs is gone. (Click page 2 and start from there if you'd like)

Also, get off your high horse and save your definition of what a true fan is. Trust me, I don't need a tutorial.

First of all I'm not on my high horse. I deal in facts. When Michael Jordan was with the Bulls people everywhere had Chicago gear on. Were they Bulls fans? No, when Jordan left, so did most fans nationally. They were Michael Jordan fans, not Chicago Bulls fans. Anyone that still holds a grudge about Bob Huggins, or Andy Kennedy for that matter, were not UC fans, they were fans of those respective coaches not the UC program. And for those that throw out the moral code of how they were treated? How about the morals of how the program was run and how the reputation of the school was crap under their watch? Andy Kennedy especially. What happened with the players and their academics under his watch only proved to a nation that the program was out of control. It was a national embarrassment to have that broadcast during the NIT. But no less an embarrassment watching our head coach stumble and beg over and over because he was drunk and driving. Or maybe you liked the yearly reports of a player with a gun, a player getting shot or tying someone up?

People absolutely kill Mick Cronin for going to coach with Pitino. Mick Cronin did the right thing for his career. Back then, Pitino assistants were getting head coaching jobs. Bob Huggins assistants weren't. Again that is a fact!

One thing I will tell you that "a true" fan" does. He/she supports the program not a personallity. You may hate them (I do) but Ky. fans fill their arena no matter who coaches, no matter who plays, no matter who they play. And before anyone tries to give me the crap there is nothing else in Kentucky, many people in Lexington and the surrounding areas come to Bengals and Reds games. Lexington is a short drive from Cincinnati. As a matter of fact, MANY people drive from Cincy and N. Ky. to Lexington to watch UK play.

I understand the economy. I understand not everyone can make it out to every game. I can't make it out to every game. But when students get free tickets and don't show, and Xavier draws nearly 10,000 for IPFW and Wofford it bothers me the apathy UC fans show toward this program.

My point was/is that if the events of 5 years ago is why people stay away that is lame and you weren't really a Bearcat fan. That simply means Huggins, and Kennedy to a far lesser degree, were bigger than the program. That doesn't happen in big time programs. A personallity may enhance the fever, but it is the love of the program that is the basis for support.

 

[bearcat jeff]

Some of it is aimed at Mick, sure.

A lot of it is aimed at Thomas. A lot of resentment still lingers over how Coach Kennedy was treated and the lack of an apology from the University on that matter.

It would help if Mick and Thomas would get out there and meet some of these fans so bridges can be built./QUOTE]

1) Why would anybody be angry at Mick Cronin? All the man did was try to better his career, something we all do when we change jobs. Oh yeah, he accepted his dream job when there wasn't a very long list of people interested. We should really be pissed about that.

2) Mike Thomas did make an apology for how the Kennedy situation was handled. He said in hindsight things should have been handled differently.

3) I can agree somewhat with this. I do not think the program is marketed very well or that there is enough effort made to get students involved.

 

[ME80]

I agree! I have stuck with the same two teams my entire life. UC basketball and OSU football. The year OSU went 6-6 and declined a bowl game, I watched everygame and attended one. The years Mick has been here. I have tried to watch everygame and attended numerous. I am a fan, not a basher. I want to see them do well. I have better sh@# to do than come on here and rip the program apart. I simply critique it and want results. Lastly, I did not attend UC either. I have no ties to the school financially and I can cheer for whoever I please

And yes, to say all UC fans was a bit much. But everyone always says, I've ben a UC Football fan all along. Some have been, but others are lying to themselves.

I have no problem with your allegence to OSU football. OSU has tradition, specifically a winning tradition, and that has built it up to a point where 100k people attend the games. I won't even get into the "only game in town" argument. When judging fans though you don't even have a common base to compare. I wish I still had the stats but I remember seeing once that there was almost a 40 year period (something like 1960 something on) where OSU had like 1 losing season and UC had like 6 winning seasons. I have argued with people before when they say I stuck with OSU even when we had a 6-6 season. The reason you did is because you knew that season was a blip and that they would be fighting for the Big 10 championship the next year. For UC a winning season was the blip. Up until the 2000's UC debated on whether to even have a football team. There was no support or effort from the administration to even create a winning program. That has all changed now but I still feel that it takes time to build a fan base and that involves consistantly having a winning program where the bad year is a blip. Hopefully this year was one of those instances for UC Football

On basketball, I agree with many of MDW's posts. There are still a lot of UC Basketball fans out there, but due to assorted reasons many are not going to the games. I truly believe that there is 1 to 2k basketball ticket buyers in this town that are fans of both X and UC and will make their ticket purchases decisions based on which team will be predicted to have a better upcoming year. I believe that some of those people will be coming back soon. And by the way, OSU has very fickle Basketball fans also. My son went there a few years back and mentioned to me many times that OSU had a hard time getting students and fans to the games.

 

[bearcat jeff]

I too have been a lifetime UC Basketball fan and OSU Football fan. That was difficult in a home of transplanted UK fans. I also support UC Football and attend their games when I can. For the record I have never been to an OSU Football game in person, but I used to go to the campus to party on game weekends! I am a fanatical UC Basketball fan and have been since I was 9 in 1973. My love for the Bearcats has never waned in spite of coaching changes and wins and losses.

 

[MDW79]

First of all I'm not on my high horse. I deal in facts. When Michael Jordan was with the Bulls people everywhere had Chicago gear on. Were they Bulls fans? No, when Jordan left, so did most fans nationally. They were Michael Jordan fans, not Chicago Bulls fans. Anyone that still holds a grudge about Bob Huggins, or Andy Kennedy for that matter, were not UC fans, they were fans of those respective coaches not the UC program. And for those that throw out the moral code of how they were treated? How about the morals of how the program was run and how the reputation of the school was crap under their watch? Andy Kennedy especially. What happened with the players and their academics under his watch only proved to a nation that the program was out of control. It was a national embarrassment to have that broadcast during the NIT. But no less an embarrassment watching our head coach stumble and beg over and over because he was drunk and driving. Or maybe you liked the yearly reports of a player with a gun, a player getting shot or tying someone up?

People absolutely kill Mick Cronin for going to coach with Pitino. Mick Cronin did the right thing for his career. Back then, Pitino assistants were getting head coaching jobs. Bob Huggins assistants weren't. Again that is a fact!

One thing I will tell you that "a true" fan" does. He/she supports the program not a personallity. You may hate them (I do) but Ky. fans fill their arena no matter who coaches, no matter who plays, no matter who they play. And before anyone tries to give me the crap there is nothing else in Kentucky, many people in Lexington and the surrounding areas come to Bengals and Reds games. Lexington is a short drive from Cincinnati. As a matter of fact, MANY people drive from Cincy and N. Ky. to Lexington to watch UK play.

I understand the economy. I understand not everyone can make it out to every game. I can't make it out to every game. But when students get free tickets and don't show, and Xavier draws nearly 10,000 for IPFW and Wofford it bothers me the apathy UC fans show toward this program.

My point was/is that if the events of 5 years ago is why people stay away that is lame and you weren't really a Bearcat fan. That simply means Huggins, and Kennedy to a far lesser degree, were bigger than the program. That doesn't happen in big time programs. A personallity may enhance the fever, but it is the love of the program that is the basis for support.

And my point, all along, was that this is not the reason people stay away. But perhaps one of many, or an issue that snowballed into another issue, and so on.

I think you saw one mention of the subject, in one post, that has nothing to do with what was being actually being implied, and decided to run with it, to use an opportunity to have this conversation again. Why?

From the very beginning, of me logging into post in this thread, my stance has been that attendance is more than just a UC issue, and that's it's unfair and it oversimplifies the issues at hand to claim there are simply deserters and that they are pro-Huggs people. Our program does have problems unique to it's own, sure. But I really don't think the majority of those people, who used to make up those empty seats, are staying away b/c of a loyalty to Huggs, or (yeah right) AK. Maybe a red sweater fan or two. Maybe a Tom Gregory. But not Joe Schmoe. I think it could be for a whole other slew of reasons, or it is, at least, one of a number of them.

So again, if you wanna rehash this debate, and you feel like educating me, or anyone else, on a subject that has been beaten to death, please free. But understand you arguing a position that I was never taking.

 

[MDW79]

Just to be clear, here was my initial post.

I don't feel like searching for the articles, (I'll post them if I come across them) but this not entirely unique to UC. (Declining attendance)

Over the last two years, attendance as a whole as declined in the major conferences. Even the state school monster the Big 10. Now some will argue, well not like it has here. True, but consider this:

WVU drew 6.5k for a game last week. (I forget who they played but is was someone similar to what we've encountered this OOC) That's a team coming off a Final Four. A school in area/state with no other competition for entertainment $ in sports. (Marshall???) They had, I believe 12k for the season opener.

People want to make this about 2 things here: 1.) Fans being pissed about Huggs leaving 2.) Cincinnati being fairweather fans

Those might be true, but there's much more. For one, I don't think our fans are any more fairweather than most teams, save the freaks of the UK's and such, who a fan base of literally millions.

The economy stinks. Period. With the advent of HDTV and numerous sports stations it has become easier, and in some cases, preferred to watch a game at home. Hell, even the NFL is seeing declining attendance. You have the holiday season right now. Students have had not only exams, but have breaks coming. Add to all this, the average fan is becoming lazier and lazier. Not just UC fans, ALL fans. This all makes for a perfect storm, which means 5k a night for our Cats right now.

Yeah it has to do with Huggs and us not being good for awhile to an extent. But is not unique to us. We do not have horrible, bad fans. And if you take the time to research attendance around the country, and factor in our market,you'll see there's not a whole lot that should surprise anybody regarding attendance right now.

When we win, and we play better teams, attendance will improve. Just like WVU won't draw 6k for a game against Seton Hall, we won't draw 4k either. Just win baby, plain and simple. I'd bet we get close to the 8-10k figure if get ranked during league play, which is a huge step in 1 season I think.

 

[bearcat jeff]

MDW, and I'm not putting you in this category, the majority of people that do not attend do so for 3 reasons. Mick Cronin, Bob Huggins, and bitterness at the administration. That is not me saying that it is the people themselves.

Read the Enquirer posts and listen to talk radio. I have personally had no less than 10 people tell me they hope UC loses every game because of what happened to Huggs and they want Mick gone. I don't want it to be that way. It simply is. A guy I know who has followed UC as long as me told me two weeks ago this very thing. He hangs with a group of guys who feel the same way. I won't even visit one Bearcat site anymore because it's hard to tell it's pro Bearcats.

I'm sure there are other reasons but the largest segment falls in the group I mentioned. If UC can win and sustain it I think it will bring some healing. You are right we should highlight the positive. I just feel very passionately about this subject. I never meant to offend you personally.

 

[MDW79]

MDW, and I'm not putting you in this category, the majority of people that do not attend do so for 3 reasons. Mick Cronin, Bob Huggins, and bitterness at the administration. That is not me saying that it is the people themselves.

Read the Enquirer posts and listen to talk radio. I have personally had no less than 10 people tell me they hope UC loses every game because of what happened to Huggs and they want Mick gone. I don't want it to be that way. It simply is. A guy I know who has followed UC as long as me told me two weeks ago this very thing. He hangs with a group of guys who feel the same way. I won't even visit one Bearcat site anymore because it's hard to tell it's pro Bearcats.

I'm sure there are other reasons but the largest segment falls in the group I mentioned. If UC can win and sustain it I think it will bring some healing. You are right we should highlight the positive. I just feel very passionately about this subject. I never meant to offend you personally.

Thank you for explaining your stance, and fwiw was not offended. Frustrated may be a better term.

I have encountered many people like the one's you described, and I do know of one of my friends who does indeed "root against Mick" but I really believe that is a minority. And as far as the people on the boards and on talk radio, I see it all, too. (I'm on BCN all the time, sure that's the site in question) but I don't think many of those people are "real life" so to say. (The message board trolls)

I mentioned this to Greatone yesterday, I really don't believe people like Doss, Billy Don, Ohio Football (I'm assuming you know who I'm talking about, if not, they're extreme examples) really exist outside of a message board, where they can be annonmous. I think a lot of us read so much of this crap on these boards sometime, where people overstate their position (especially the negative ones) that it may cloud our perception a tad.

I'm not saying the people you know personally aren't out there, they are, no doubt. I'm just not sure they're the majority of the people who are lost customers. Or I'm not sure that there's just an equal amount of "solid fan" with legitimate apathy.

I know quite a few people that just lost interest. These are people I grew up with and many went to UC as well. It's not that they're mad, or hate Mick, or love Huggs, they just kind of faded away. Some just got older, started working more. Some used to go to a handful of games every year and watch the rest on tv. Not that they're not on tv as much, they don't buy walkups as much. Some were never big basketball fans to begin with, and always just kinda of hopped on for the ride for something to do.

There's people who are arsholes and openly root against them for sure. There's also just a bunch of casual fans that slowly became apathetic, and I think that took time, didn't happen over a firing, or a hiring.

I'll leave you guys with one example, I always like to use, b/c I really like the person.

There was a woman I used to work with, who was in her early 60's. When I started at that office, I was one of a few big UC fans there (This place was in NKy) and we'd all shoot the shit. Anyway, come to find out, this older lady was a huge UC fan. HUGE. She literally taped every game from the Fox 19 days. Like I could borrow VHS tapes from her of, say, UC-Depaul 1998. (I started this job in '02) She always wore a UC sweatshirt, always like to talk about the game that night, always read the Enquirer articles. Would take her grandkids down to 5/3 and Nippert every so often...

She was just a cooler older lady, didn't know a ton about the game, but loved UC. Anyway, in the midst of the rebuilding she's had some chemo treatments here and there, was sick for a a little while, coupled with the Fox 19 contract expiring, just stopped caring as much. She ended up getting better health wise and would watch occassionally. By the last year I worked with her, 2009, she really wasn't even up to date with the team. Like, I'd ask her did you watch last night, what did you think? And she'd say, oh darn, I didn't even know they were on. Or, yeah, but me and Don (her husband, also big UC fan) flipped it off at half.

The point is, she wasn't mad or bitter, it was just a slow process. As much as life just happening (Her getting sick) I really think that tv contract with Fox 19 affected her interest. (They had Dish but wouldn't always get the FSO games) Now, she wasn't a season ticket holder or anything but this is just one example. I don't remember the last time she went down there. And I know a few people with similar stories. Many not older, my age (32) that could easily be down there. (I have trouble getting people to take an extra ticket every so often)

I just think for as many people that like to beat their chest "I hate Mick" there's just cool people like this older lady, that for whatever reason isn't really hip to what's going on with the program.

PS Sorry for length of this.

 

[Juliepitzer]

From the fans I hang out with, we are never ever cheering against our bearcats. To think a true fan does is a far reach I would hope. The fans just do not like the thought of Mick or Thomas getting credit for it all. Someone mentions Mick attending functions throughtout the city. I would like to know where. Our club has searched on more than one occasion for such an event and could never locate it. Also, a vague statement such as "things could have been done differently" is not an apology. Coach Kennedy had his issues as do we all. That however does not give an institution of higher learning the right to embarrass anyone in front of 1000's of listeners. We should hold our school to higher standards, dont you think?

 

[MDW79]

Mick attending functions throughtout the city. I would like to know where. Our club has searched on more than one occasion for such an event and could never locate it.

Bearcat Caravan/Coaches Caravan.

gobearcats.com ususually has the info and I think they normally do a couple a year. I know he's been at Salem Gardens (Anderson) a few times.

 

[Juliepitzer]

Thanks for the info!

 

[swg]

Welcome to BCT Julie

 

[bearcat jeff]

From the fans I hang out with, we are never ever cheering against our bearcats. To think a true fan does is a far reach I would hope. The fans just do not like the thought of Mick or Thomas getting credit for it all. Someone mentions Mick attending functions throughtout the city. I would like to know where. Our club has searched on more than one occasion for such an event and could never locate it. Also, a vague statement such as "things could have been done differently" is not an apology. Coach Kennedy had his issues as do we all. That however does not give an institution of higher learning the right to embarrass anyone in front of 1000's of listeners. We should hold our school to higher standards, dont you think?

Agreed but again, it's been 5 years. Time to move forward yes? Even institutions of higher learning have issues. The people employed by them should operate by those same high standards. Especially when they represent it nationally and mold young mens lives.