Bellermine tonight

[bearcat jeff]

I think the thing about JD that hasn't been mentioned are the turnovers. He plays too fast, he needs to take a step back sometimes. He tries to force things, and that results in too many turnovers. That is why he's not getting the PT some would like him to get. Sanders doesn't turn the ball over anywhere near the rate of JD3. That is what Mick is looking for.

I said in the summer I felt JD would be moved to the 2 guard. He can shoot, penetrate with his strength, and doesn't have to run the offense. Good move by Mick and one I heard was being considered in the summer.

 

[waterhead]

I think the thing about JD that hasn't been mentioned are the turnovers. He plays too fast, he needs to take a step back sometimes. He tries to force things, and that results in too many turnovers. That is why he's not getting the PT some would like him to get. Sanders doesn't turn the ball over anywhere near the rate of JD3. That is what Mick is looking for.

TO's were part of the stats I used in the comparison. In reality Sanders was only slightly better. Last year JD had 16 TO's in 213 minutes and Sanders had 13 in 238. It's really minimal...not some crazy difference. But there is a crazy difference in steals...JD had 13 last year and Sanders had 1. When looked at in terms of a plus and minus JD was minus 3 in terms TO's to steals. Sanders was minus 15. That's HUGE!

I am getting the numbers from the official UC site...but I have to admit the 1 steal from Sanders seems awful strange.

 

[waterhead]

The only real question to me is...is Sanders THAT much better at being a defender (or setting screens) than JD to warrant less scoring potential and a much higher rate of turnovers to steals?

 

[waterhead]

I said in the summer I felt JD would be moved to the 2 guard. He can shoot, penetrate with his strength, and doesn't have to run the offense. Good move by Mick and one I heard was being considered in the summer.

I gotta admit I think it's brilliant! Sanders isn't ready to take the helm at the 2. Sanders is more of a 3. JD is ready to shoot the ball...which is what you want to see from the 2. He is accurate too. The only thing I don't know about Davis is how good or bad of a defender he is compared to Sanders. but I do know that JD steals the ball a LOT more often. How bad can he be on D? The TO argument seems to be a myth...the numbers just aren't there to prove JD is a TO machine when compared to Sanders...unless the stats on the UC website are bogus.

 

[JasonS]

Haha you said Yahoo's.. I laughed.

 

[JasonS]

Yea, I'm sure you will just "watch". As soon as the slightest negative comment is made about the team you can bet Stuart Smalley, whoops, I mean JasonS, will come to the rescue.

You can take your approach of being negative about everything and I will take mine of looking for the good aspects of the team. Fine by me. I just think I will enjoy the season a heck of a lot more than you.

 

[JasonS]

TO's were part of the stats I used in the comparison. In reality Sanders was only slightly better. Last year JD had 16 TO's in 213 minutes and Sanders had 13 in 238. It's really minimal...not some crazy difference. But there is a crazy difference in steals...JD had 13 last year and Sanders had 1. When looked at in terms of a plus and minus JD was minus 3 in terms TO's to steals. Sanders was minus 15. That's HUGE!

I am getting the numbers from the official UC site...but I have to admit the 1 steal from Sanders seems awful strange.

These are good facts. A couple things I wonder about (don't know the answer):

1. Mick looks at deflections as much if not more than steals. Does anyone have those totals? It might shed some light on it.

2. I think Sanders has the ability to guard more positions because of his size. I think we are kind of comparing a 2 guard with a SF. I know it is not as big of a difference in Mick's system as your typical NBA system, but I wonder if the size might have something to do with that. Rebounding is always a focus for Mick too.

For the record, I think both can be good players by the time they leave UC. I have not watched practice so I don't know who is a better player in practice. That typically lends itself to minutes. Mick spent a lot of time in the scrimmages trying to get different lineups on the court. Until the rotation is defined, we might not see either player play up to their potential. That may take some time.

 

[waterhead]

Here is an interesting look at the guards last year in terms of assists-turnovers-steals. I rounded off the ratios.

SK...78-56-49 (2 to 1)

DD...76-67-60 (2 to 1)

CW...169-83-74 (3 to 1)

JP...38-31-17 (2 to 1)

GG...20-19-18 (2 to 1)

JS...14-13-1 (1 to 1)

JD...14-16-13 (2 to 1)

Although Sanders may be slightly less likely to turn the ball over he wasn't the type of player who went for steals last year. He may have been a better on ball defender IDK but he only blocked 2 shots compared to JD's 1. In terms of the overall ratio Sanders was the worst last year. Cash was the best at 3 to 1, Sanders was the worst at 1 to 1, and the rest were hovering somewhere around 2 to 1. Davis...had he played similar minutes to SK or DD (if you project steals) would have finished somewhere around where Cash did...and I think Cash (if I remember right) may have broken a record for steals last year. I admit JD's sample size for minutes played is a little low to project that.

I would agree Sanders can guard a bigger player than JD...but I am just wondering what the added value for Sanders is over and above what JD brings. JD seems to bring more excitement, aggressiveness, scoring, and better assist to turnover to steal ratio. Does Sanders make up for that somehow on D or elsewhere? I don't think he's a lockdown Bishop type of defender is he? I know what I would rather see as a fan...JD is the type of player who can score 20 when he's hot. Sanders isn't likely to be agressive enough to score much more than 10.

 

[waterhead]

These are good facts. A couple things I wonder about (don't know the answer):

1. Mick looks at deflections as much if not more than steals. Does anyone have those totals? It might shed some light on it.

2. I think Sanders has the ability to guard more positions because of his size. I think we are kind of comparing a 2 guard with a SF. I know it is not as big of a difference in Mick's system as your typical NBA system, but I wonder if the size might have something to do with that. Rebounding is always a focus for Mick too.

For the record, I think both can be good players by the time they leave UC. I have not watched practice so I don't know who is a better player in practice. That typically lends itself to minutes. Mick spent a lot of time in the scrimmages trying to get different lineups on the court. Until the rotation is defined, we might not see either player play up to their potential. That may take some time.

I like your 2 points and they don't show up on the official UC stat page. Deflections is a very good point...but I would guess if JD has 13 steals to Sanders 1 that he might also be getting some good deflections IDK. In terms of match up defending on bigger players I would definitely agree. In terms of rebounds last year JD had 25 and JS had 33 and JD had slightly less minutes so he might project to 27 or so with the same minutes. Not a huge difference in totals.

That doesn't mean over the course of a season with more playing time that JS would not out rebound JD by a larger margin...I would like to think he would...but last year it wasn't a noticeable difference. Some people have a nose for the ball and JD seems to have that. But if Sanders is the type of guy (can't say for sure) who can hold a great scorer to 10 points rather than 20...he is probably worth his weight even if he's not as good in other areas. I just haven't heard the Bishop type (great defender) comparisons about him yet.

 

[TheLongHaul]

You can take your approach of being negative about everything and I will take mine of looking for the good aspects of the team. Fine by me. I just think I will enjoy the season a heck of a lot more than you.

Ha. I love how you view negativity. I tend to look at things objectively. I couldn't be any more excited for this season as I think they'll be pretty darn good. I also went to many games during Cronin's first couple years and was pumped for every one of them even when I knew they would get crushed. That doesn't mean I'm not critical of things I see and areas that players need to approve upon.

 

[TheLongHaul]

JDIII was recruited to play SG. I still like his potential at PG though because he is always dribbling with his head up and looking for the open player in transition. I like him playing fast he just needs his head to catch up with his body but IMO that will come in time. Plus, I prefer PG's who can shoot and I don't think Guyn is a very good shooter.

 

[JumpinJack5]

JDIII was recruited to play SG. I still like his potential at PG though because he is always dribbling with his head up and looking for the open player in transition. I like him playing fast he just needs his head to catch up with his body but IMO that will come in time. Plus, I prefer PG's who can shoot and I don't think Guyn is a very good shooter.

I agree, I don't think JD111's "playing too fast" is as big of a problem as people think. At least he is giving good effort and has a year under his belt. It is definitely a small problem, but it is much easier to correct someone who is giving good effort and playing too fast, as compared to someone who isn't giving full effort. His biggest role this year is to hit 3s and play d. Keeping him at SG for this year is smart, because won't have as much responsibility as he would at PG. I think with one more year, he will be ready to start next year.

 

[Scheids21]

Him playing too fast is straight from Cronin's mouth. Don't have a link but I remember reading the article.

 

[JumpinJack5]

Him playing too fast is straight from Cronin's mouth. Don't have a link but I remember reading the article.

I know Mick said that, but I think it is a little overblown. He is a 3 star guard who is a true sophomore, that is to be expected at times. He will definitely be ready by next year to be a key contributor, I think (which is really important, because we will need some solid veteran guards next year with Cash, JaQuon Parker graduating and possibly losing SK to the draft).

 

[mdchick]

a little early for all of this who is better than who nonsense, its easy to score in games when you win by 20 and 30, its a lot harder to score when you have the pressure on you and you win by 1. We got to see a lot of out back ups and I am very excited for them to improve into our program, but the reality is the start of Big East play, (which is when the season starts to really count, ( Cash, SK, Parker will all play AT LEAST 28 mins per game) leaving a total of 36 mins between GG, Shaq, Saunders, JDIII, thats not to say that they wont contribute, they will contribute in some of the games, but we are going to be relying most on the 3 Amigo's this year, they are going to take us as far as we go.


My Player Power Ranking

1. SK
2. Cash
3. Parker
4. Rubles
5. Justin Jackson
6. Cheikh
7. Saunders
8. GG
9. Nyrasuk
10. Shaq
11. JDIII
12. Gaines

It's pretty awsome when you have Shaquille thomas and Jeremiah Davis at the bottum of you list, those are some great basketball players and I am just amazed to see how far we have come as a basketball program in the last 7 years.

 

[JumpinJack5]

a little early for all of this who is better than who nonsense, its easy to score in games when you win by 20 and 30, its a lot harder to score when you have the pressure on you and you win by 1. We got to see a lot of out back ups and I am very excited for them to improve into our program, but the reality is the start of Big East play, (which is when the season starts to really count, ( Cash, SK, Parker will all play AT LEAST 28 mins per game) leaving a total of 36 mins between GG, Shaq, Saunders, JDIII, thats not to say that they wont contribute, they will contribute in some of the games, but we are going to be relying most on the 3 Amigo's this year, they are going to take us as far as we go.


My Player Power Ranking

1. SK
2. Cash
3. Parker
4. Rubles
5. Justin Jackson
6. Cheikh
7. Saunders
8. GG
9. Nyrasuk
10. Shaq
11. JDIII
12. Gaines

It's pretty awsome when you have Shaquille thomas and Jeremiah Davis at the bottum of you list, those are some great basketball players and I am just amazed to see how far we have come as a basketball program in the last 7 years.

Agreed mostly, but JD111>GG..

 

[david aka the TYZ]

Comparing Davis and Sanders based on last year is misleading. When Davis got in it was usually late in games and he was guarding the point. Sanders probably never guarded the point other than in a quick rotation. That probably reflects why the steal totals are so different. Also, Davis ran the offense when he was in there some, Sanders never would have, so TO's will be much higher, too. I'll be honest I like Davis better than Guyn and Sanders at this point. I'll concede that Sanders is probably the smarter player of the three and that goes a long way when filling in for a few minutes to try and not let the other team make a run while your starters are out. I also realize that Guyn is a much better on the ball defender, which is what you want at the point. I won't pretend to be an expert and I trust in Mick, but I'm not sure why Davis doesn't get in a little sooner.

 

[Nomadic1]

Sanders showed himself to be adjusted to better competition last year, Guyn's defense was solid all year round. Davis had some good games also, I don't see him running point though. He can do some pretty things with the ball, score in a variety of ways but running the offense well all the time is something that would take away from his offensive potential imo.
He seems more a natural SG. Guyn will need to take some steps this year. Yes, his shot is ugly but it goes in. It's effective, beyond that, I don't care.
He plays stout on ball defense and was the best on ball defender we had last season. Sanders has gotten faster and had a taste of tough competition, he plays smart basketball.
I like all 3 of them but it feels obvious who's intended for what position.
Guyn is point, Davis is SG and Sanders is a SF.

 

[waterhead]

a little early for all of this who is better than who nonsense, its easy to score in games when you win by 20 and 30, its a lot harder to score when you have the pressure on you and you win by 1. We got to see a lot of out back ups and I am very excited for them to improve into our program, but the reality is the start of Big East play, (which is when the season starts to really count, ( Cash, SK, Parker will all play AT LEAST 28 mins per game) leaving a total of 36 mins between GG, Shaq, Saunders, JDIII, thats not to say that they wont contribute, they will contribute in some of the games, but we are going to be relying most on the 3 Amigo's this year, they are going to take us as far as we go.


My Player Power Ranking

1. SK
2. Cash
3. Parker
4. Rubles
5. Justin Jackson
6. Cheikh
7. Saunders
8. GG
9. Nyrasuk
10. Shaq
11. JDIII
12. Gaines

It's pretty awsome when you have Shaquille thomas and Jeremiah Davis at the bottum of you list, those are some great basketball players and I am just amazed to see how far we have come as a basketball program in the last 7 years.

If it were me I would probably have it something like this right now in close games...

Mooj/Nyarcuk/Gaines
JJ/Rubles
Parker/Sanders/Thomas
SK/Davis
Wright/Guyn

SK/CW/JP...32 minutes
Mooj...25
JJ/Trub...20
Nyarcuk/Sanders/Thomas/Guyn/Davis...8

 

[bearcat jeff]

If it were me I would probably have it something like this right now in close games...

Mooj/Nyarcuk/Gaines
JJ/Rubles
Parker/Sanders/Thomas
SK/Davis
Wright/Guyn

SK/CW/JP...32 minutes
Mooj...25
JJ/Trub...20
Nyarcuk/Sanders/Thomas/Guyn/Davis...8

I think those minutes are probably fairly close if the game is tight. However, I think there will come a time when you will see Rubles in at the end instead of JJ.