Fairmont State

[Bearcatmatt]

I've wondered if his reputation of focusing primarily on defense all the time is driving the best offensive players away. There's obviously a mature way that a great player can view this. He can see the value of taking his great offensive skills to a program like Cincinnati and learning defense to become a complete player. But, until Mick starts putting some players in the NBA and validating his approach, I think we'll continue to struggle getting the top offensive players. Players like SK will help us. He became a complete player and made 1st team all-american. Hopefully, he can eventually get in the NBA and start demonstrating the value of playing for Cincinnati.

This is my first post here. I'm a long time Bearcat fan. I like Mick. He took a program given a death sentence, stuck with it, and has made the NCAA tournament a viable realistic every year. That being said, I cannot fathom why we don't recruit more guys who can score, especially shooters. You cannot advance in March with defense alone.

Here's a pretty useful article - http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaab/eye-on-college-basketball/21877821/offense-may-be-more-important-than-defense-in-ncaa-tournament?v=1&vc=1

Basically, the further you advance, the more offense separates you from the rest of the field. Defense matters, but you needs guys who can score. Teams that move on in March do both.

There is another article (can't find it at the moment) from a few years ago that basically suggested that over 10 years, the NCAA champ was ranked in the top 30 in both defense and offense with only one exception - UCONN in 2011. I think we can all remember how bad that game was for both teams offensively.

My point? We need more than defense. You need scoring. All that said, I'm excited to see this team play.

 

[L-T]

This is my first post here. I'm a long time Bearcat fan. I like Mick. He took a program given a death sentence, stuck with it, and has made the NCAA tournament a viable realistic every year. That being said, I cannot fathom why we don't recruit more guys who can score, especially shooters. You cannot advance in March with defense alone.

Here's a pretty useful article - http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaab/eye...tant-than-defense-in-ncaa-tournament?v=1&vc=1

Basically, the further you advance, the more offense separates you from the rest of the field. Defense matters, but you needs guys who can score. Teams that move on in March do both.

There is another article (can't find it at the moment) from a few years ago that basically suggested that over 10 years, the NCAA champ was ranked in the top 30 in both defense and offense with only one exception - UCONN in 2011. I think we can all remember how bad that game was for both teams offensively.

My point? We need more than defense. You need scoring. All that said, I'm excited to see this team play.

I agree 100%. Our identity has always been defense and toughness and I don't want to change that identity. We certainly can have that identity and also be good offensively. I don't think we'll ever get far in the tournament without having at least a decent offense. Last year, our great defense couldn't get past Harvard. There's no reason that we shouldn't get our share of great offensive players, yet for some reason, we don't. Either Mick is lookung for something specific and doesn't even try to land the top players, or our reputation of being "defense only" just doesn't appeal to the good offensive players.

I'm a little more upbeat about this roster, but I still don't see enough obvious offensive talent to be able to not worry about our defense. I'm afraid that the talent level on this team still requires us to be very good defensively, and I'm not seeing that defensive skill level with this group. Mick will have to work a few miracles to make this group live up to our past defensive identity.

 

[BearcatSpaniard513]

I agree 100%. Our identity has always been defense and toughness and I don't want to change that identity. We certainly can have that identity and also be good offensively. I don't think we'll ever get far in the tournament without having at least a decent offense. Last year, our great defense couldn't get past Harvard. There's no reason that we shouldn't get our share of great offensive players, yet for some reason, we don't. Either Mick is lookung for something specific and doesn't even try to land the top players, or our reputation of being "defense only" just doesn't appeal to the good offensive players.

I'm a little more upbeat about this roster, but I still don't see enough obvious offensive talent to be able to not worry about our defense. I'm afraid that the talent level on this team still requires us to be very good defensively, and I'm not seeing that defensive skill level with this group. Mick will have to work a few miracles to make this group live up to our past defensive identity.

This will be a very successful "rebuilding" year and when we do make the tourney it will be considered a success. Losing 3 key seniors, including the program's 2nd ranked all-time leading scorer and bringing in 7 new faces... making the tournament will be an accomplishment. The team we all want will hopefully be next year with all our upperclassman and key young guys:

Ellis (Sr.)
Shaq (5th year Sr.)
DeBerry (Sr.)
Cobb (Sr.)
KJ (Jr.)
Caupain (JR)
Morman (3rd year So.)
Strickland (3rd year So.)

 

[#BearcatNation]

This will be a very successful "rebuilding" year and when we do make the tourney it will be considered a success. Losing 3 key seniors, including the program's 2nd ranked all-time leading scorer and bringing in 7 new faces... making the tournament will be an accomplishment. The team we all want will hopefully be next year with all our upperclassman and key young guys:

Ellis (Sr.)
Shaq (5th year Sr.)
DeBerry (Sr.)
Cobb (Sr.)
KJ (Jr.)
Caupain (JR)
Morman (3rd year So.)
Strickland (3rd year So.)

Throw in freshmen Jenifer, Evans, and Scott. DAMN!

 

[Robert]

Throw in freshmen Jenifer, Evans, and Scott. DAMN!

And don't forget about Moore, who should show improvement on defense and shot selection through this season and next. The future hasn't been this bright in a long time.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

as long as Mick makes the dance and runs a clean program I'm happy. Would love to get some more high profile recruits but until we settle in a better league,upgrade our facilities and Mick's reputation and success continue to grow we will continue to take baby steps.

 

[bearcat jeff]

I still believe the team will be very good.

 

[L-T]

as long as Mick makes the dance and runs a clean program I'm happy. Would love to get some more high profile recruits but until we settle in a better league,upgrade our facilities and Mick's reputation and success continue to grow we will continue to take baby steps.

Sorry Waite, but this is a "mid-major" point of view. That is exactly why we're now in a mid-major conference where the good programs continue to leave and more mid-majors continue to fill their slots. Baby-stepping along will continue to keep us slotted as a mid-major program. We're much better than that and our expectations should be much greater than some slow journey up the ladder to respectability. We don't have time for baby steps. The future is now with the moving and shaking going on in college sports.

 

[#BearcatNation]

The better recruits will keep coming. We've made the tourney 4 straight years, we'll have a practically brand new arena in 3 years, and we won't be in the AAC forever. I don't know when we'll move conferences, but the way it's set up right now is not even remotely how it will look in 5-10 years. Realignment is not done. Maybe on a temporary break, but definitely not done.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Sorry Waite, but this is a "mid-major" point of view. That is exactly why we're now in a mid-major conference where the good programs continue to leave and more mid-majors continue to fill their slots. Baby-stepping along will continue to keep us slotted as a mid-major program. We're much better than that and our expectations should be much greater than some slow journey up the ladder to respectability. We don't have time for baby steps. The future is now with the moving and shaking going on in college sports.

to each his own. We have very little choice in the matter. Personally I'm very happy with our coach and program.

 

[bearcat jeff]

to each his own. We have very little choice in the matter. Personally I'm very happy with our coach and program.

Me too, but I'd like to see more second weekend tournaments in March.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

This is my first post here. I'm a long time Bearcat fan. I like Mick. He took a program given a death sentence, stuck with it, and has made the NCAA tournament a viable realistic every year. That being said, I cannot fathom why we don't recruit more guys who can score, especially shooters. You cannot advance in March with defense alone.

Here's a pretty useful article - http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaab/eye...tant-than-defense-in-ncaa-tournament?v=1&vc=1

Basically, the further you advance, the more offense separates you from the rest of the field. Defense matters, but you needs guys who can score. Teams that move on in March do both.

There is another article (can't find it at the moment) from a few years ago that basically suggested that over 10 years, the NCAA champ was ranked in the top 30 in both defense and offense with only one exception - UCONN in 2011. I think we can all remember how bad that game was for both teams offensively.

My point? We need more than defense. You need scoring. All that said, I'm excited to see this team play.

Great points Matt.

I read an article several years ago, 8-10, that Cronin was the one who convinced Huggins to get a sharpshooter, the article stated that Huggins didn't want Field Williams. Cronin also did the same thing at Louisville getting Francisco Garcia. I looked for the article but could not find it. Does anyone else recall this? Just seems strange that he would want shooters for Huggs and Pitino but not himself.

 

[bearcat jeff]

Great points Matt.

I read an article several years ago, 8-10, that Cronin was the one who convinced Huggins to get a sharpshooter, the article stated that Huggins didn't want Field Williams. Cronin also did the same thing at Louisville getting Francisco Garcia. I looked for the article but could not find it. Does anyone else recall this? Just seems strange that he would want shooters for Huggs and Pitino but not himself.

He wants them but he isn't willing to sacrifice other things or that is my guess.

 

[JackBauer151]

I've wondered if his reputation of focusing primarily on defense all the time is driving the best offensive players away. There's obviously a mature way that a great player can view this. He can see the value of taking his great offensive skills to a program like Cincinnati and learning defense to become a complete player. But, until Mick starts putting some players in the NBA and validating his approach, I think we'll continue to struggle getting the top offensive players. Players like SK will help us. He became a complete player and made 1st team all-american. Hopefully, he can eventually get in the NBA and start demonstrating the value of playing for Cincinnati.

I think this is a key point. I think Mick has done a fine job up until this point with recruiting. It's been an uphill battle with the rebuilding of the program. Had to get players that could win while not being able to get top talent. Mission accomplished. Now that he has won consistently the recruits are starting to get better. Three straight classes with at least two 4 star prospects in them. Much more offensive minded players. But the point that he hasnt sent anyone to the NBA (Aside from Lance which is an outlier) is an important one. Top kids want to play in the NBA and want to play for coaches and in systems that send them there. You are not going to play in many final fours if you dont have kids on your roster that are going to the NBA. This is the next step Mick has to take. He needs to start getting players like Huggs and Pitino got while he was their assistant. I know its a different time and different leagues. However his program has went to the dance 4 years in a row, been in the top 25 at one point 5 years in a row, top 10 the last two years, has media exposure because of ESPN deal with AAC, getting new locker rooms, getting a new arena, developed a first team all american, and was coach of the year in the conference that produced the national champion. There is enough to sell top kids on to get them to Cincinnati. Now is the time to take the big step forward we have been waiting for.

 

[BCM]

to each his own. We have very little choice in the matter. Personally I'm very happy with our coach and program.

You have as much choice as you have money, so the saying goes.

 

[ME80]

So after two practice games many are convinced that this team is going to continue to be a below average offensive team ?????

 

[Doodie]

So after two practice games many are convinced that this team is going to continue to be a below average offensive team ?????

It seems like after two exhibition games everyone has figured out who is good and who is going to suck.

 

[BCM]

Can those same people please pick my lottery numbers for tomorrow?

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I think this is a key point. I think Mick has done a fine job up until this point with recruiting. It's been an uphill battle with the rebuilding of the program. Had to get players that could win while not being able to get top talent. Mission accomplished. Now that he has won consistently the recruits are starting to get better. Three straight classes with at least two 4 star prospects in them. Much more offensive minded players. But the point that he hasnt sent anyone to the NBA (Aside from Lance which is an outlier) is an important one. Top kids want to play in the NBA and want to play for coaches and in systems that send them there. You are not going to play in many final fours if you dont have kids on your roster that are going to the NBA. This is the next step Mick has to take. He needs to start getting players like Huggs and Pitino got while he was their assistant. I know its a different time and different leagues. However his program has went to the dance 4 years in a row, been in the top 25 at one point 5 years in a row, top 10 the last two years, has media exposure because of ESPN deal with AAC, getting new locker rooms, getting a new arena, developed a first team all american, and was coach of the year in the conference that produced the national champion. There is enough to sell top kids on to get them to Cincinnati. Now is the time to take the big step forward we have been waiting for.

Jack understand your point completely. What I expect out of the program has already been delivered. Mick is recruiting student athletes. I'm really not interested in one and doners. He holds his kids accountable both on and off the court. What you and L-T say is true ,he needs NBA type players to bring home a Championship. Something that hasn't been done since the early 60's. It would mean much more for me if he did it with student atheletes rather then kids who had no interest in going to school for the education. I wouldn't buy a ticket or watch a game if Calipari was coaching UC. Just my opinion.

 

[bearcat jeff]

So after two practice games many are convinced that this team is going to continue to be a below average offensive team ?????

I said the same thing basically on another thread. You can't draw conclusions from two exhibition games or early in the season when there are so many new pieces in place and players taking on expanded roles for the first time.