Jermaine Lawrence asks for release

[WAITE HOYT 2]

If you aren't getting guys to the the NBA then it's going to be a struggle to land top 50 players, which makes it that much more difficult to advance in March. You should definitely care if the coach can recruit or develop NBA-level players.

again I could careless about NBA. I'd much rather they stay 4 years and get a education.

 

[Bearcat04]

We've only landed 6 consensus top 100 players, according to the RSCI, since Mick has been here.

2013 - Jermaine Lawrence #25 overall
2011 - Shaquille Thomas #93
2009 - Lance Stephenson #8
2008 - Yancy Gates #31
2008 - Cashmere Wright #93
2007 - Anthony McClain #60

Recruiting definitely needs to improve. You can find some diamonds in the rough in the 3-star/JUCO world, but you need top players to consistently be a threat in March.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Alvin Mitchell was a 4 star as well...

since Mick has been here he has landed 1 player in the NBA. Lance. He has graduated many. Which is his best accomplishment? He has also produced winning seasons in that time. If all we want is a winning team why not get a professional team and pay the kids?

 

[L-T]

after watching Biggie and Wilks play are you really going to tell me they were 4 star recruits.

So, all the blame for how they developed is their fault, and not a failure of the coaching staff at all? Again, Biggie and Wilks were not defensive dynamos when they got here, so we know what that means in Mick's system. Find a nice comfortable place on the bench. It's very hard to show your 4-star and 5-star skills when your a$$ is glued to the bench. Shaq has certainly had his fair share of bench time because of his defense. JDIII is another example. None of these guys seem to be able to show their skills when they come here for some reason. When you choose to ignore a player's offensive skills because he doesn't meet your defensive expectations, then you have what you have....a team that can't score 50 points, but it can hold the other team down as well. This is where 4-star and 5-star players come to die. They probably get their stars based on their offense, but Mick banishes them to purgatory because of their defense.

The fact that your're happy with just a competitive program tells me all I need to know Waite. Me and you are in too completely different time zones when it comes to expectations. There's nothing wrong with either of us, but it certainly explains the difference in how and what we post. I'm not interested in competitive at all.

 

[Bearcat04]

None of these guys seem to be able to show their skills when they come here for some reason. When you choose to ignore a player's offensive skills because he doesn't meet your defensive expectations, then you have what you have....a team that can't score 50 points, but it can hold the other team down as well. This is where 4-star and 5-star players come to die. They probably get their stars based on their offense, but Mick banishes them to purgatory because of their defense.

I don't agree with this at all, because Pitino has the exact same defensive expectations and his teams have been very successful over the years. He just has much better overall talent.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I don't agree with this at all, because Pitino has the exact same defensive expectations and his teams have been very successful over the years. He just has much better overall talent.

Ding Ding Ding!
If you have 10 4*/5* players, you can have your Biggies and Wilks on the bench but by simple math, you're still going to have Top 100 players on the floor no matter what.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Our ratio of diamonds in the rough / Top 100 players is out of whack compared to other power programs.

 

[L-T]

I don't agree with this at all, because Pitino has the exact same defensive expectations and his teams have been very successful over the years. He just has much better overall talent.

You either recruit the talent, or you develop the talent....or both.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

So, all the blame for how they developed is their fault, and not a failure of the coaching staff at all? Again, Biggie and Wilks were not defensive dynamos when they got here, so we know what that means in Mick's system. Find a nice comfortable place on the bench. It's very hard to show your 4-star and 5-star skills when your a$$ is glued to the bench. Shaq has certainly had his fair share of bench time because of his defense. JDIII is another example. None of these guys seem to be able to show their skills when they come here for some reason. When you choose to ignore a player's offensive skills because he doesn't meet your defensive expectations, then you have what you have....a team that can't score 50 points, but it can hold the other team down as well. This is where 4-star and 5-star players come to die. They probably get their stars based on their offense, but Mick banishes them to purgatory because of their defense.

The fact that your're happy with just a competitive program tells me all I need to know Waite. Me and you are in too completely different time zones when it comes to expectations. There's nothing wrong with either of us, but it certainly explains the difference in how and what we post. I'm not interested in competitive at all.

I have no issue with Mick's you don't guard you don't play. Huggins had same rule. Kids that come here no that. It's no secret. If you think your going to run up and down the floor and take shots and not guard you ain't playing. PT is the only weapon the coach has to enforce accountability. You earn your minutes.Where 4 and 5's stars go to die is laughable. If a guy refuses to guard or follow scouting report or doesn't board he sits. What do you say to the guy who does follow direction and makes the effort to guard. Shaq went the entire Louisville game without 1 rebound. Biggest game of year to that point I'm 60 and I bet I can run down 1 lose ball in 20 minutes. Coach has a ton of responsibility more then the player but the player is responsible for effort and following directions.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Shaq went the entire Louisville game without 1 rebound. Biggest game of year to that point I'm 60 and I bet I can run down 1 lose ball in 20 minutes.

Haha I don't doubt that you could Waite.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

So, all the blame for how they developed is their fault, and not a failure of the coaching staff at all? Again, Biggie and Wilks were not defensive dynamos when they got here, so we know what that means in Mick's system. Find a nice comfortable place on the bench. It's very hard to show your 4-star and 5-star skills when your a$$ is glued to the bench. Shaq has certainly had his fair share of bench time because of his defense. JDIII is another example. None of these guys seem to be able to show their skills when they come here for some reason. When you choose to ignore a player's offensive skills because he doesn't meet your defensive expectations, then you have what you have....a team that can't score 50 points, but it can hold the other team down as well. This is where 4-star and 5-star players come to die. They probably get their stars based on their offense, but Mick banishes them to purgatory because of their defense.

The fact that your're happy with just a competitive program tells me all I need to know Waite. Me and you are in too completely different time zones when it comes to expectations. There's nothing wrong with either of us, but it certainly explains the difference in how and what we post. I'm not interested in competitive at all.

yes we are different. I want to win more then anyone. But I want to win utilizing certain criteria. Kids must go to class,follow rules and graduate. Again if I didn't care about those things I would just follow the pro game or schools should just pay the kids. Which by the way will probably be here in 10years or less. I coached for many years while my kids were growing up. I always rewarded hard work and effort. If a kid did that he played.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Haha I don't doubt that you could Waite.

they may have had to call 911 and pry the ball out of my hands but I would have got 1. Lol

 

[L-T]

I liked Rick Minter. Based on your expectations, he was pretty good. We were definitely competitive. We made our share of bowl appearances. He graduated players. He took less talented players and by year 3 and 4, he could develop them into pretty darn good football players. Someone decided that this university was better than just being competitive, and we went out and hired Mark Dantonio, Brian Kelly, Butch Jones, and now Tommy T. and this program soared to heights nobody ever could have imagined. Varsity Village got built. The bubble got built. Lindner Center got built. Now Nippert is getting re-built. A laughingstock football program proved that anything is possible and that we should never be happy with just being competitive. Someone said in one of these threads, we're one of the top 13 basketball programs of all time. As a faithful fan of this program, I expect far better than a program that is just competitive. The fact that we're one of the 13 best of all time proves we can be a power program. We're better than 42-41 victories. Again, I love great defense like the next person, but there's no excuse for the offensive ineptitude that we've shown. We'll never be a power program without a big upgrade in the offense. If that means sacrificing a little defense, then so be it.

 

[Chad Brendel]

after watching Biggie and Wilks play are you really going to tell me they were 4 star recruits.

Biggie was a 4 star because he was tall and Wilks because he could jump out of the gym. Neither came in with the skills to make a serious impact, but they did have that shiny (and meaningless) ranking to go by their name...

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Biggie was a 4 star because he was tall and Wilks because he could jump out of the gym. Neither came in with the skills to make a serious impact, but they did have that shiny (and meaningless) ranking to go by their name...

chad you made my point for me. L-T was trying to use them as a example of under utilized talent. My statement was the ranking was off target.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I liked Rick Minter. Based on your expectations, he was pretty good. We were definitely competitive. We made our share of bowl appearances. He graduated players. He took less talented players and by year 3 and 4, he could develop them into pretty darn good football players. Someone decided that this university was better than just being competitive, and we went out and hired Mark Dantonio, Brian Kelly, Butch Jones, and now Tommy T. and this program soared to heights nobody ever could have imagined. Varsity Village got built. The bubble got built. Lindner Center got built. Now Nippert is getting re-built. A laughingstock football program proved that anything is possible and that we should never be happy with just being competitive. Someone said in one of these threads, we're one of the top 13 basketball programs of all time. As a faithful fan of this program, I expect far better than a program that is just competitive. The fact that we're one of the 13 best of all time proves we can be a power program. We're better than 42-41 victories. Again, I love great defense like the next person, but there's no excuse for the offensive ineptitude that we've shown. We'll never be a power program without a big upgrade in the offense. If that means sacrificing a little defense, then so be it.

L-T the difference between you and me is I want more offense but I'm not giving up defense to do it. If you want to be a great program you better be able to guard. many a great coaches have said that. If a guy didn't guard for Huggs he was out of the game before the buzzer to stop play went off.same with Pitino. Again I want to score every time down but if you give up 2 for every 2 you score you have not accomplished much.

 

[Bcatfollower]

Shaq is still her and unless he makes a effort to get him self right physically he will never realize his full potential. He gets coaching and minutes and has not done a lot with either. Does the player bear any responsibility. Not every player responds to coaching. They didn't under Huggins and they won't under Mick. I had a guide line I used for my kids, if I want you to do well more then you want it for yourself, we will never be successful and our relationship will suffer. I can apply that to Yancy and Shaq.

But these are the guys mick picked to work with.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

But these are the guys mick picked to work with.

is it a bit unreasonable to pick his failures and never mention the ones who have done very well. I mean its easy to sit back and create unrealistic expectations. Who could you bring in here at his salary,who wants to be here and give you better results.

 

[L-T]

L-T the difference between you and me is I want more offense but I'm not giving up defense to do it. If you want to be a great program you better be able to guard. many a great coaches have said that. If a guy didn't guard for Huggs he was out of the game before the buzzer to stop play went off.same with Pitino. Again I want to score every time down but if you give up 2 for every 2 you score you have not accomplished much.

Huggs did have the same philosophy and we used to complain about his offenses all the time. But, his offenses were light years better than Cronins, because he either recruited better players, or developed them better, or both. I would certainly love to have those old crappy Huggs offenses back now that I've watched Micks for a few years. But, I think we better let this thread get back to Jermaine lawrence. It's gotten a little off topic. Good posts. We'll just agree to disagree....as usual!

 

[david aka the TYZ]

I have no issue with Mick's you don't guard you don't play. Huggins had same rule. Kids that come here no that. It's no secret. If you think your going to run up and down the floor and take shots and not guard you ain't playing. PT is the only weapon the coach has to enforce accountability. You earn your minutes.Where 4 and 5's stars go to die is laughable. If a guy refuses to guard or follow scouting report or doesn't board he sits. What do you say to the guy who does follow direction and makes the effort to guard. Shaq went the entire Louisville game without 1 rebound. Biggest game of year to that point I'm 60 and I bet I can run down 1 lose ball in 20 minutes. Coach has a ton of responsibility more then the player but the player is responsible for effort and following directions.

With your body building background I bet you can box out pretty effectively...