Mick Cronin needs some help

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Without rehashing the past, I think it is a logical thought...what you said about three years later but it is what it is and it was tough at the beginning accepting that success wasn't a given like it had been. Also though, the big east wasn't a forgiving conference. All that aside the hard work has paid off. IF Indiana is comparable, and let's say it is for the hell of it, we have not had a "rebuilding" season since our success. Granted it's been 4 seasons of the UC basketball we expect but still...did we honestly think that after 19 games we'd we 17-2? Not to mention replacing two 4 year contributors in Parker and Wright? The point is that Coach Cronin has INSPIRED his guys to step up as leaders and because of his leadership we are continuing to get better. I appreciate what Coach came into and has done/continues to do. Will there be head scratching loses here and there? Probably. Will we see a team under Cronin really underachieve? PeRhaps. But it would take a strong argument to convince we that he hasn't done/continues to do one hell of a job. And for that I'm grateful uc basketball is in the state it's in.

Couldn't agree more. Have no problem debating recruiting and game strategy. Its fun even if it is done in the dark without excess to all the info needed to make such a decision times but it is fun. My problem is when people with very little knowledge of the game spout off that we should fire the Coach or profess that they could do a better job. Going to the NCAA 3 years running and a 4th on the way is not to shabby. Especially considering the level of competition and the financial perimeters he operates under.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Trust me, if it were up to Mo Egger, he'd be talking about college hoops more. I think it's the same with Lance as well. The fact is, though, when they talk about college basketball for a while, the radio's ratings go down. It's a fact. Mo is sick of just Reds and Bengals as well, but its not all up to him. The city in general needs to care more about college hoops.

Trouble is no one calls in. We can change that with a simple call. If this town loves a winner we have two College hoops teams doing just that. I'm not gullable enough to think we can supllant the Red/Bengals in this town but we sure can garner more interest then what has been put forth. Lets give it a try. What do we have to lose?

 

[ralph1950]

The Bengals and Reds will always get top billing. In the very big picture, in the general public, there is not much interest in college basketball until the NCAA Tourney starts and people put their $5 or $10 in the office bracket pool.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

The Bengals and Reds will always get top billing. In the very big picture, in the general public, there is not much interest in college basketball until the NCAA Tourney starts and people put their $5 or $10 in the office bracket pool.

I can understand that but it doesn't mean we can't improve on the interest by generating good conversation on the local air waves. Especially with the Bengals season over and the draft not until April. The reds are still a couple of weeks away from starting Spring training. Perfect window of opportunity to increase interest in BB with March madness on the horizon and our two local teams almost assured of being participants.

 

[L-T]

Couldn't agree more. Have no problem debating recruiting and game strategy. Its fun even if it is done in the dark without excess to all the info needed to make such a decision times but it is fun. My problem is when people with very little knowledge of the game spout off that we should fire the Coach or profess that they could do a better job. Going to the NCAA 3 years running and a 4th on the way is not to shabby. Especially considering the level of competition and the financial perimeters he operates under.

3 straight tournaments is fine, but you know that Mick will never gain acceptance until he takes the next steps. The next step is getting the program consistently in the Top 25 and getting higher seeds in the NCAA, winning some league and league tourney championships, and then taking the next step in the tourney...elite 8 or Final 4. Not many have been impressed with his recruiting, and outside of the one sweet 16, his NCAAs haven't been nothing to write home about. Lack of player development has also been a concern.

Now, having said all of this, we are starting to see the improvements I talked about. We're in the Top 20....which will hopefully lead to a high seed. We're in first place, which will hopefully lead to a league championship. Our recruiting is on the upswing. Justin Jackson and Sanders have shown some impressive improvement. Even the offense has improved in the last month. It's this kind of season that will gain Mick the credibility with the doubters, but he needs to sustain it and make this the norm and not the exception. There are far worse doubters than me in this city. I still support the team with my attendance and my money and in every other way that I can. I'll complain on this forum about him at times, but I'm really liking where he has us today, and I'm certainly liking the recruits I'm seeing, so he should be able to sustain this success. Obviously, next year could be a challenge after losing SK, JJ and Rubles. He really needs an overachieving year and then hopefully this program really takes off as these recruits get some experience under their belts.

 

[bearcat jeff]

3 straight tournaments is fine, but you know that Mick will never gain acceptance until he takes the next steps. The next step is getting the program consistently in the Top 25 and getting higher seeds in the NCAA, winning some league and league tourney championships, and then taking the next step in the tourney...elite 8 or Final 4. Not many have been impressed with his recruiting, and outside of the one sweet 16, his NCAAs haven't been nothing to write home about. Lack of player development has also been a concern.

Now, having said all of this, we are starting to see the improvements I talked about. We're in the Top 20....which will hopefully lead to a high seed. We're in first place, which will hopefully lead to a league championship. Our recruiting is on the upswing. Justin Jackson and Sanders have shown some impressive improvement. Even the offense has improved in the last month. It's this kind of season that will gain Mick the credibility with the doubters, but he needs to sustain it and make this the norm and not the exception. There are far worse doubters than me in this city. I still support the team with my attendance and my money and in every other way that I can. I'll complain on this forum about him at times, but I'm really liking where he has us today, and I'm certainly liking the recruits I'm seeing, so he should be able to sustain this success. Obviously, next year could be a challenge after losing SK, JJ and Rubles. He really needs an overachieving year and then hopefully this program really takes off as these recruits get some experience under their belts.

I think next year will be fine. UC will be strong on the perimeter and deeper if unproven in the post. Troy Caupain will easily move into a leadership role, KJ and Mormon will be very strong defensively, Thomas and Sanders will have another year and larger roles. If the low post can be adequate UC will be fine and with the guys we have coming in and Strickland being eligible, I don't see that as a problem. Especially since I think Lawrence will make a huge leap next season.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

3 straight tournaments is fine, but you know that Mick will never gain acceptance until he takes the next steps. The next step is getting the program consistently in the Top 25 and getting higher seeds in the NCAA, winning some league and league tourney championships, and then taking the next step in the tourney...elite 8 or Final 4. Not many have been impressed with his recruiting, and outside of the one sweet 16, his NCAAs haven't been nothing to write home about. Lack of player development has also been a concern.

Now, having said all of this, we are starting to see the improvements I talked about. We're in the Top 20....which will hopefully lead to a high seed. We're in first place, which will hopefully lead to a league championship. Our recruiting is on the upswing. Justin Jackson and Sanders have shown some impressive improvement. Even the offense has improved in the last month. It's this kind of season that will gain Mick the credibility with the doubters, but he needs to sustain it and make this the norm and not the exception. There are far worse doubters than me in this city. I still support the team with my attendance and my money and in every other way that I can. I'll complain on this forum about him at times, but I'm really liking where he has us today, and I'm certainly liking the recruits I'm seeing, so he should be able to sustain this success. Obviously, next year could be a challenge after losing SK, JJ and Rubles. He really needs an overachieving year and then hopefully this program really takes off as these recruits get some experience under their belts.

I want the same things. Achieving the things he has already should give him the credibility but that is my view. I'm a fan who attends games on occasion and watches from home at times. My kids didn't go to school there and neither did I. I"m not a UCat member so my financial commitment isn't on the same level as yours. Your expectation is probably higher then mine and maybe rightly so. I would only suggest instead of people blaming the coach which I think is misguided. (my explanation for that is MC can coach his results speak for themselves) People should understand the difficulties that he continues to battle in regards to budget and facilities. People continue to compare him to Huggs as if the playing field both inherited was equal. Its not and hasn't been. I could argue about the League MC was coaching in,the two year lag in recruiting he faced, replacing a successful coach as opposed to Yates and more.All this has been kicked around. L-T we have a good coach who wants to be here and if he didn't with what he has achieved to this point would be scooped up in a heartbeat and placed in a better situation. I want the same things as you for UC. To be a elite program that graduates its students athletes and represents the city with class. If you are a knowledgeable fan as you claim to be you know MC has done a remarkable job and is the right man to see this process through. As a fan if I didn't think he could get it done I would be screaming my head off for the next guy.

 

[Bearcat22]

I think next year will be fine. UC will be strong on the perimeter and deeper if unproven in the post. Troy Caupain will easily move into a leadership role, KJ and Mormon will be very strong defensively, Thomas and Sanders will have another year and larger roles. If the low post can be adequate UC will be fine and with the guys we have coming in and Strickland being eligible, I don't see that as a problem. Especially since I think Lawrence will make a huge leap next season.

The bigs next year will provide depth, unproven depth, but it's hard not to be excited. Clark looks like a steal that could compete for minutes right away. Moore coupled with JL have skills, touch and range most big men don't. DeBerry and Strickland seem to be the traditional low post players that are coveted like gold in the recruiting world.

 

[ralph1950]

3 straight tournaments is fine, but you know that Mick will never gain acceptance until he takes the next steps. The next step is getting the program consistently in the Top 25 and getting higher seeds in the NCAA, winning some league and league tourney championships, and then taking the next step in the tourney...elite 8 or Final 4. Not many have been impressed with his recruiting, and outside of the one sweet 16, his NCAAs haven't been nothing to write home about. Lack of player development has also been a concern.

Now, having said all of this, we are starting to see the improvements I talked about. We're in the Top 20....which will hopefully lead to a high seed. We're in first place, which will hopefully lead to a league championship. Our recruiting is on the upswing. Justin Jackson and Sanders have shown some impressive improvement. Even the offense has improved in the last month. It's this kind of season that will gain Mick the credibility with the doubters, but he needs to sustain it and make this the norm and not the exception. There are far worse doubters than me in this city. I still support the team with my attendance and my money and in every other way that I can. I'll complain on this forum about him at times, but I'm really liking where he has us today, and I'm certainly liking the recruits I'm seeing, so he should be able to sustain this success. Obviously, next year could be a challenge after losing SK, JJ and Rubles. He really needs an overachieving year and then hopefully this program really takes off as these recruits get some experience under their belts.

Unfortunately, UC winning the National Championship with Mick will probably not bring the fans back. UC needs to cultivate a new younger fan base as those that left are not going to return. There does not seem to be a middle ground with Mick, people either like him or dislike him. The recent Enquirer article where Mick discussed the need for a new arena was very telling. There were over 200 readers comments on the article at cincinnati.com. Over 200 comments on an article is more than 3 standard deviations from the mean. The comments were split about 50/50 between what a great job Mick is doing, how he saved the program, how he brought the program back sooner than anyone thought possible; and traitor Mick, he is not loyal, he left UC for Louisville, he cannot develop players, who cannot coach offense, he cannot recruit. People are set in their opinion and nothing that happens on the court is going to change their opinions.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I think next year will be fine. UC will be strong on the perimeter and deeper if unproven in the post. Troy Caupain will easily move into a leadership role, KJ and Mormon will be very strong defensively, Thomas and Sanders will have another year and larger roles. If the low post can be adequate UC will be fine and with the guys we have coming in and Strickland being eligible, I don't see that as a problem. Especially since I think Lawrence will make a huge leap next season.

I agree jeff. I think we may struggle early but come on late as the team adjust and grows. If I could add one more piece it would be a sharp shooting wing who could consistently warrant defensive attention and knock down the three. i also share your opinion of JL. If he gets stronger his physical skills are off the charts for a guy his size. He will be a monster. You can see it in his game this year with how he handles the rock.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Unfortunately, UC winning the National Championship with Mick will probably not bring the fans back. UC needs to cultivate a new younger fan base as those that left are not going to return. There does not seem to be a middle ground with Mick, people either like him or dislike him. The recent Enquirer article where Mick discussed the need for a new arena was very telling. There were over 200 readers comments on the article at cincinnati.com. Over 200 comments on an article is more than 3 standard deviations from the mean. The comments were split about 50/50 between what a great job Mick is doing, how he saved the program, how he brought the program back sooner than anyone thought possible; and traitor Mick, he is not loyal, he left UC for Louisville, he cannot develop players, who cannot coach offense, he cannot recruit. People are set in their opinion and nothing that happens on the court is going to change their opinions.

Continue to win and build a new facility and people will attend the games. I could careless if they are old fans or new. I have no doulbt what your saying about the comments. This town is nuts with people who think they can coach better then the current coach. I'm always amused by the casual fan who thinks all we needed to straigten out the team is a Kick tail coach who could energize the athlete. As if talent means nothing. The reason for that is there is a lot of History and Passion surrounding sports in this town. That is a good thing and it is why we have Pro franchises.

 

[bearcat jeff]

I agree jeff. I think we may struggle early but come on late as the team adjust and grows. If I could add one more piece it would be a sharp shooting wing who could consistently warrant defensive attention and knock down the three. i also share your opinion of JL. If he gets stronger his physical skills are off the charts for a guy his size. He will be a monster. You can see it in his game this year with how he handles the rock.

Completely agree about a knock down shooter. They need to scout Iowa, Nebraska or whatever for just such a specialist...lol

 

[L-T]

I want the same things. Achieving the things he has already should give him the credibility but that is my view. I'm a fan who attends games on occasion and watches from home at times. My kids didn't go to school there and neither did I. I"m not a UCat member so my financial commitment isn't on the same level as yours. Your expectation is probably higher then mine and maybe rightly so. I would only suggest instead of people blaming the coach which I think is misguided. (my explanation for that is MC can coach his results speak for themselves) People should understand the difficulties that he continues to battle in regards to budget and facilities. People continue to compare him to Huggs as if the playing field both inherited was equal. Its not and hasn't been. I could argue about the League MC was coaching in,the two year lag in recruiting he faced, replacing a successful coach as opposed to Yates and more.All this has been kicked around. L-T we have a good coach who wants to be here and if he didn't with what he has achieved to this point would be scooped up in a heartbeat and placed in a better situation. I want the same things as you for UC. To be a elite program that graduates its students athletes and represents the city with class. If you are a knowledgeable fan as you claim to be you know MC has done a remarkable job and is the right man to see this process through. As a fan if I didn't think he could get it done I would be screaming my head off for the next guy.

Last year we rose to #8 and then melted down and ended up a disappointment on all levels. Whatever the cause (the believers will blame Cash's injury), I think that set Mick back in the eyes of the doubters. This year, we beat up on the patsies, then got hammered by NM and X, and it seemed like more of the same. Out of the ashes, he has risen again and things look rosey once again. There's is a long way to go. At the end of this season, the fanbase has to be able to look back and see significant improvement, and be totally excited about next year. There can't be another feeling of disappointment. You'd have to feel like a another Sweet 16 is mandatory, and anything beyond that would pump the fans up even more and lead to more season ticket sales.

If we end the season without a league championship, without a 1-4 seed, and get bounced out in the 1st or 2nd round again, he won't have gained very much in the eyes of the fans.....unless we can hang on to the Top 25 ranking for a while. An extended stay in the Top 25 will be a nice change at the very least. Hopefully, all the other things can happen as well.

I think these next 2 games are crucial. We really need to avoid a letdown against two teams we should beat and then go into that Louisville game to prove this program is back....national tv...two highly ranked teams....1st place on the line....just where Bearcat Basketball should be.

 

[JumpinJack5]

Completely agree about a knock down shooter. They need to scout Iowa, Nebraska or whatever for just such a specialist...lol

They need Torian Graham, he could be that guy that we have been missing.

 

[#BearcatNation]

Last year we rose to #8 and then melted down and ended up a disappointment on all levels. Whatever the cause (the believers will blame Cash's injury), I think that set Mick back in the eyes of the doubters. This year, we beat up on the patsies, then got hammered by NM and X, and it seemed like more of the same. Out of the ashes, he has risen again and things look rosey once again. There's is a long way to go. At the end of this season, the fanbase has to be able to look back and see significant improvement, and be totally excited about next year. There can't be another feeling of disappointment. You'd have to feel like a another Sweet 16 is mandatory, and anything beyond that would pump the fans up even more and lead to more season ticket sales.

If we end the season without a league championship, without a 1-4 seed, and get bounced out in the 1st or 2nd round again, he won't have gained very much in the eyes of the fans.....unless we can hang on to the Top 25 ranking for a while. An extended stay in the Top 25 will be a nice change at the very least. Hopefully, all the other things can happen as well.

I think these next 2 games are crucial. We really need to avoid a letdown against two teams we should beat and then go into that Louisville game to prove this program is back....national tv...two highly ranked teams....1st place on the line....just where Bearcat Basketball should be.

Completely disagree. You don't need to improve every year. You just need to consistently have good, competitive teams. See Huggs. His teams lost in the 2nd round for what, 5 straight years? And by the end he was selling out every game. Now those teams had a lot more potential, but it sounds like you're saying UC will really be hurting if they wind up with a 5-6 seed and lose in the 2nd round, and I don't think that's the case. Not saying I'd be satisfied with that, but if they did exactly that I think no doubt ticket sales would increase next year. Not by a ton, but there would be an increase.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Last year we rose to #8 and then melted down and ended up a disappointment on all levels. Whatever the cause (the believers will blame Cash's injury), I think that set Mick back in the eyes of the doubters. This year, we beat up on the patsies, then got hammered by NM and X, and it seemed like more of the same. Out of the ashes, he has risen again and things look rosey once again. There's is a long way to go. At the end of this season, the fanbase has to be able to look back and see significant improvement, and be totally excited about next year. There can't be another feeling of disappointment. You'd have to feel like a another Sweet 16 is mandatory, and anything beyond that would pump the fans up even more and lead to more season ticket sales.

If we end the season without a league championship, without a 1-4 seed, and get bounced out in the 1st or 2nd round again, he won't have gained very much in the eyes of the fans.....unless we can hang on to the Top 25 ranking for a while. An extended stay in the Top 25 will be a nice change at the very least. Hopefully, all the other things can happen as well.

I think these next 2 games are crucial. We really need to avoid a letdown against two teams we should beat and then go into that Louisville game to prove this program is back....national tv...two highly ranked teams....1st place on the line....just where Bearcat Basketball should be.

L-T how do you rate the team to this point. Are they overachieving in your eyes. Schedule is back loaded. what are your expectations for the remaining games.

 

[UCBearcats]

Completely disagree. You don't need to improve every year. You just need to consistently have good, competitive teams. See Huggs. His teams lost in the 2nd round for what, 5 straight years? And by the end he was selling out every game. Now those teams had a lot more potential, but it sounds like you're saying UC will really be hurting if they wind up with a 5-6 seed and lose in the 2nd round, and I don't think that's the case. Not saying I'd be satisfied with that, but if they did exactly that I think no doubt ticket sales would increase next year. Not by a ton, but there would be an increase.

You can disagree with what he's saying but the fact is that UC has already done what you've described above and the fans haven't come back. Agree or disagree that it's fair or just but the fact is that what he's saying is the truth. The fans haven't come back yet, the majority expects and wants more. Once they feel like this team is legit they will come back. If this team tanks it people aren't going to come back. This season is very important for UC basketball.

If we finish the season in the top 15 and get a 3 seed in the tourney it won't even matter if we get bounced in the 2nd round, many fans will view that as a huge success.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

You can disagree with what he's saying but the fact is that UC has already done what you've described above and the fans haven't come back. Agree or disagree that it's fair or just but the fact is that what he's saying is the truth. The fans haven't come back yet, the majority expects and wants more. Once they feel like this team is legit they will come back. If this team tanks it people aren't going to come back. This season is very important for UC basketball.

If we finish the season in the top 15 and get a 3 seed in the tourney it won't even matter if we get bounced in the 2nd round, many fans will view that as a huge success.

UCBearcats I may be wrong and please correct me if i am but isn't attendance trending up the last few years. certainly not where it should or could be but moving up. The economy could have a impact as well as attendance accross the board in college hoops is down.

 

[#BearcatNation]

You can disagree with what he's saying but the fact is that UC has already done what you've described above and the fans haven't come back. Agree or disagree that it's fair or just but the fact is that what he's saying is the truth. The fans haven't come back yet, the majority expects and wants more. Once they feel like this team is legit they will come back. If this team tanks it people aren't going to come back. This season is very important for UC basketball.

If we finish the season in the top 15 and get a 3 seed in the tourney it won't even matter if we get bounced in the 2nd round, many fans will view that as a huge success.

Average attendance per game, last three years:

'10-11: 7,344
'11-12: 8,069
'12-13: 9,253

You can't really expect the program to just leap into 12k/game again. That can happen, but these things take time. I get what you're saying, but fans are in fact coming back. Slowly but surely. While continuing to improve would be huge for the program, i.e. elite eights, final fours, I think the city just needs a program that will have teams compete year in and year out. Keep making the tourney and reach a couple sweet sixteens and the fans will come. Now whether or not I would be satisfied with that is a completely different story.

 

[L-T]

L-T how do you rate the team to this point. Are they overachieving in your eyes. Schedule is back loaded. what are your expectations for the remaining games.

I think we are overachieving based on the talent I see with my eyes. It will be very hard to accomplish what I feel Mick needs to accomplish to make a difference with the fans who don't presently attend games. And, unlike Ralph, I completely disagree with the statement that we can't win back fans who have left. While it will be hard to accomplish the things I said above, that is still what he needs to do. Annual 3rd/4th/5th place finishes in the league, just making the NCAA with a medium to low seed, and exiting in the first or second round, impresses nobody anymore. Maybe in year 4 or 5 or 6 that was ok. But, at some point you need to get the program past that or face the music. 8 years is a pretty good sample, and plenty of time to get the program back on firm ground. We should be seeing the next step now....and maybe this is the year.