Micks Philosophy needs to change.

[Bcatfollower]

how do you ignore people again?

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Waite, you and I will never agree, but that's ok. I know you're a great Bearcat fan as am I. If I am right about our coach, youll eventually be a happy Bearcat, and if you're right, I'll be happy too. I think we both want exactly the same thing for this program. We just disagree on the best way to get there. We want something better than what we had with Huggs. If we get to that point, who really cares who got us there. I'm not patient. I don't want this process to take 20 years.

The statute of limitations has run out on what Mick inherited 8 years ago. Let's go ahead and throw away his 1st 4 years and give him an "A" for digging us out of the abyss. Lets assume we hand the program over to a great up and coming young coach beginning year 5 with Yancy, Dixon, Cash, Bishop, and the boys....and turn him lose. Are we really happy here in year 4? After the sweet 16 run and being ranked preseason the next year, starting 12-0, rising to #8 in the rankings, then bombing at home to New Mexico and losing 2 more of the next 3 games to fall out of the rankings, losing 6 of the last 9 league games, losing in the 2nd game of the league tourney, and out in the 1st round of the NCAA, followed by this season's embarrassing loss to New Mexico and blowout loss to Xavier again, this trend is certainly not up. We've also had embarrassing home losses to Presbyterian and Marshall during this time. Our fans have not been impressed and still don't attend games. Should we really be happy now? Is there really a light at the end of this tunnel? Once again, we're seeing promise in the"potential" of recruits. But, one thing we've learned with Mick's recruits to this point, they have been a lot more "underwhelming" than "overwhelming".

I really like this years recruits so far. Yes, next years recruits sound promising, but he has recruited not a single shooter in spite of losing Kilpatrick at season's end. So now we are at the mercy of depending on Mick developing our current players into great shooters and our big men into great offensive contributors. Are you really confident that will happen? I don't think he will be fired, so we are going to definitely watch your senario play out. Time will tell who is right.

To answer your question yes, I'm happy in year 4. You point out a few bad games but how about all the HOF coaches he has beaten with less talent. There are many more good wins then losses. Since the first 4 years we have made the dance every year and have a sweet 16 appearance. Talent level is pointing up. I would also remind you SK wasn't known as a shooter when he got here either. So as far as being confident Mick could develop a shooter, he already has. Your right he isn't going to be fired and he shouldn't be. If he was we would be the laughing stock of the NCAA and he would be hired in a New York minute. I understand your feelings from a fans perspective and I'm glad you support the program but a knowledgeable athletic director your not. If you truly are a fan continue buying tickets. What we need now much more than a new coach is a upgraded arena and a end to speculation concerning are league affiliation. Mick may come up short in the recruiting arena right now but he is not often out coached. He is the up and coming young coach you want.



I also hope you understands something. I am not a Mick apologist. I have know hidden agenda when it comes to Mick I'm a fan of the program and I want a winner. Like most when Huggins was screaming obscenities and driving under the influence, when grad rates were in the toilet I wasn't screaming for his dismissal. I want a winner. I want to be in a good league so when I go to the games they are meaningful and exciting against good schools with excellent traditions. If I didn't think Mick could deliver that or I thought there was a better option we could hire I would be all for it.

One last thing. I truly understand your frustration as a long time season ticket holder. You have every right to be frustrated and upset. Between Huggins,Wyler, the BOT and the Lawyers they imposed a death penalty on the program and the fan base. Going from a great experience to what you had to endure the first 4 years and still pay for it had to be painful. Consider this, it also was painful for Mick. He worked his tail off. He endured competing in the toughest conference in the country, his sport is playing second fiddle financially to the football team, the previous administration went to sleep and missed the conference realignment making recruiting a tougher sell, he has been publicly ridiculed personally and professionally by many hiding behind their keyboards. Through all that he has brought the program back to respectability. He wants the same thing you do. A top flight program all alums and Locals can take pride in. Firing him now would be huge mistake. He has been mentored by two of the best in the business. He deserves the respect and praise from the people in this city that many outside it already give him.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

What Mick inherited is no longer an excuse but in looking at the body of his work it has to be considered. In my mind, once his first 4 year players made it to their senior year the rebuilding was done because Mick then had a team of "his guys".

I think the future is bright for UC. There was a synergy around the program in the 90's that hasn't been recaptured and that is not even debatable, but the recent success of the program gives me hope. The multiple first/second round losses in the NCAA had already begun to remove that luster. Nancy Zimpher poured acid on it.

I don't envy Mick following a UC legend and taking on the project he undertook and noone else wanted. He's done an admirable if not spectacular job. The best thing we can do as fans is continue to support the program.

I know that's the simple answer and I'm sure you'll agree that his first class of four year players was no where near the caliber of players that would take us back to what we all want to be. Not to knock our players, but just because Mick brought them here doesn't mean they were his first choice of talent. Recruiting is about the most important part of the rebuilding process as you need the right caliber of players to maintain a winning pprogram year-in, year-out even in rebuilding years. I think we didn't really see that come to fruition until this year's class and next year's class where the whole class was guys that were more his first choice of talent and beat out other teams for not just settling for who he could get. The fact that we won the past few years with less talent just shows that Mick does know how to coach. I think some people forget we kind of had to go through two rebuilding processes. One to even field a legitimate team and the second to raise the bar. I'm hoping that we are at the early stages of that second phase now with these two latest recruiting classes.

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

Still beating this dead horse? I love how much overreaction there was over 2 games when UC has been what, like 85-34 the past 3+ years?

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Still beating this dead horse? I love how much overreaction there was over 2 games when UC has been what, like 85-34 the past 3+ years?

it's the same thing when discussing the players. A few games back people were all over Sanders. 2 games later and a few made shots and he is good enough to play again.

Some will come on Here saying if you like MC your settling. We are satisfied with just making the tourney. That is laughable. In case anyone doesn't know this we haven't won a title since the early 60's.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

it's the same thing when discussing the players. A few games back people were all over Sanders. 2 games later and a few made shots and he is good enough to play again.

Some will come on Here saying if you like MC your settling. We are satisfied with just making the tourney. That is laughable. In case anyone doesn't know this we haven't won a title since the early 60's.

And you're happy with that....I'm just messing with you. Yeah, I know when Huggins was here we thought we had a title chance every year and some people think it's settling to just want a winning program, but I'm realistic in that I don't expect UC to win a national title every year and anything short of that is a failure. I want a winning program that competes for it's conference every year and makes the dance every year and makes some noise every few years. And by noise I mean legitimate top ten teams and elite eights or better. I want sweet sixteens to be the norm more than the once in a whiles. Give me Syracuse's or (gulp) Louisville's recent success and I will be happy. I still think Mick can take us there. I still see improvement each year with this program rather it be wins and losses or recruiting or the fact that he has calmed (matured) as a coach and has built a good team chemistry here. Next thing we need is butts in the seats. Mick needs to be a little more proactive in this area to sway fans to the games.

 

[Bcatfollower]

Still beating this dead horse? I love how much overreaction there was over 2 games when UC has been what, like 85-34 the past 3+ years?

2 losses out of 3 of the best opponents we have played. I'd say its cause for some concern and critical evaluation. People weren't overreacting.

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

2 losses out of 3 of the best opponents we have played. I'd say its cause for some concern and critical evaluation. People weren't overreacting.

Really? All the notorious Mick bashers came out of the woodwork following the Xavier game. Even I played along with some of their delusional theories.

 

[CaptDale]

Really? All the notorious Mick bashers came out of the woodwork following the Xavier game. Even I played along with some of their delusional theories.

We don't seem to have too much of a problem as long as the opponent doesn't have any Bigs. We've yet to prove we can cope with that particular. I haven't looked at all the conference rosters, but some teams must have some Bigs who can play. That will be our true test of what kind of team we are. Our D is tight, otherwise. Our passing is coming around. We're fast enough on both sides of the ball. I'm seeing positive progress. We're deep enough in the guards to have constant fresh legs out there. We are woefully thin at the 4/5. If we get into any foul trouble (and it's shown its ugly head a few times recently with 4 fouls on Titus vs Nebraska, JL fouling out a couple of games ago, and JJ always seeming to have at least 3), we're going to be really hurting. Sure can't use Nyarsuk for anything.
Go Cats!

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

We don't seem to have too much of a problem as long as the opponent doesn't have any Bigs. We've yet to prove we can cope with that particular. I haven't looked at all the conference rosters, but some teams must have some Bigs who can play. That will be our true test of what kind of team we are. Our D is tight, otherwise. Our passing is coming around. We're fast enough on both sides of the ball. I'm seeing positive progress. We're deep enough in the guards to have constant fresh legs out there. We are woefully thin at the 4/5. If we get into any foul trouble (and it's shown its ugly head a few times recently with 4 fouls on Titus vs Nebraska, JL fouling out a couple of games ago, and JJ always seeming to have at least 3), we're going to be really hurting. Sure can't use Nyarsuk for anything.
Go Cats!

Louisville and UConn do not have big men the caliber of New Mexico. While both are clearly more talented than UC, I would like our chances at home. If UC could beat Memphis, UConn, Louisville each once and sweep SMU, they would be a tournament lock, IMO.

 

[Robert]

Louisville and UConn do not have big men the caliber of New Mexico. While both are clearly more talented than UC, I would like our chances at home. If UC could beat Memphis, UConn, Louisville each once and sweep SMU, they would be a tournament lock, IMO.

They might not even have to do that much, but I would be ecstatic if they did.

 

[L-T]

To answer your question yes, I'm happy in year 4. You point out a few bad games but how about all the HOF coaches he has beaten with less talent. There are many more good wins then losses. Since the first 4 years we have made the dance every year and have a sweet 16 appearance. Talent level is pointing up. I would also remind you SK wasn't known as a shooter when he got here either. So as far as being confident Mick could develop a shooter, he already has. Your right he isn't going to be fired and he shouldn't be. If he was we would be the laughing stock of the NCAA and he would be hired in a New York minute. I understand your feelings from a fans perspective and I'm glad you support the program but a knowledgeable athletic director your not. If you truly are a fan continue buying tickets. What we need now much more than a new coach is a upgraded arena and a end to speculation concerning are league affiliation. Mick may come up short in the recruiting arena right now but he is not often out coached. He is the up and coming young coach you want.



I also hope you understands something. I am not a Mick apologist. I have know hidden agenda when it comes to Mick I'm a fan of the program and I want a winner. Like most when Huggins was screaming obscenities and driving under the influence, when grad rates were in the toilet I wasn't screaming for his dismissal. I want a winner. I want to be in a good league so when I go to the games they are meaningful and exciting against good schools with excellent traditions. If I didn't think Mick could deliver that or I thought there was a better option we could hire I would be all for it.

One last thing. I truly understand your frustration as a long time season ticket holder. You have every right to be frustrated and upset. Between Huggins,Wyler, the BOT and the Lawyers they imposed a death penalty on the program and the fan base. Going from a great experience to what you had to endure the first 4 years and still pay for it had to be painful. Consider this, it also was painful for Mick. He worked his tail off. He endured competing in the toughest conference in the country, his sport is playing second fiddle financially to the football team, the previous administration went to sleep and missed the conference realignment making recruiting a tougher sell, he has been publicly ridiculed personally and professionally by many hiding behind their keyboards. Through all that he has brought the program back to respectability. He wants the same thing you do. A top flight program all alums and Locals can take pride in. Firing him now would be huge mistake. He has been mentored by two of the best in the business. He deserves the respect and praise from the people in this city that many outside it already give him.

Until he accomplishes something significant other than just making the NCAA and getting knocked out fairly quick.....in other words.....advancing past sweet 16, long run in top 10 or at least top 20, regular season championship, league tourney championship, top 10 recruiting classes, high seed in NCAA etc, then the fans will stay away and the program will remain stagnant. If the head coach can't inspire enough interest in the fans to support the program, then he is failing at something very important.

That being said, I loved the victory on Saturday. I really like the freshman class this year. Next year's recruits "sound" promising. So today, I'm certainly feeling better about the future. Let's just see where this season takes us. Hopefully, it doesn't take us to anything less than an NCAA bid. I'll always support the program and attend every game. I don't have to like the coach to do that. I listened to 2 guys in the row in front of me today arguing about Cronin. One obviously loved him and the other didn't. The guy who liked him was doing a lot of talking today because we performed well. For whatever reason, Mick is a polarizing coach. He has as many detractors as he does supporters, and that needs to change for this program to move forward.

More games like today will help make that happen.

 

[bearcat jeff]

Think this thread has about run its course. Nice debate with good points on each side.

Mick could help by promoting the program more personally. I've always felt UC falls short in program promotion since "the fall." He has done pretty well helping to raise money though and with a low recruiting budget maybe he has to be more hands on but some good pr would help.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Until he accomplishes something significant other than just making the NCAA and getting knocked out fairly quick.....in other words.....advancing past sweet 16, long run in top 10 or at least top 20, regular season championship, league tourney championship, top 10 recruiting classes, high seed in NCAA etc, then the fans will stay away and the program will remain stagnant. If the head coach can't inspire enough interest in the fans to support the program, then he is failing at something very important.

That being said, I loved the victory on Saturday. I really like the freshman class this year. Next year's recruits "sound" promising. So today, I'm certainly feeling better about the future. Let's just see where this season takes us. Hopefully, it doesn't take us to anything less than an NCAA bid. I'll always support the program and attend every game. I don't have to like the coach to do that. I listened to 2 guys in the row in front of me today arguing about Cronin. One obviously loved him and the other didn't. The guy who liked him was doing a lot of talking today because we performed well. For whatever reason, Mick is a polarizing coach. He has as many detractors as he does supporters, and that needs to change for this program to move forward.

More games like today will help make that happen.

L-T I don't think changing the coach will bring out the fans. Attendance was trending down before MC took over. I think the economy is playing a huge role in the numbers not just here but across the country. Basketball takes a huge hit because it falls at the time of year holiday spending is at its highest. With the need for discretionary dollars allocated elsewhere the choice between watching at home or attending is easy.My hope is beginning with this years class and next MC will start reaping the benefits of his hard work. I laugh every time I hear people talk about his coaching. The one thing I'm sure of is he can coach. The difficult task for a young coach is convincing top end talent to trust that you can get them in the league. I think he is gaining on that objective. My desire for MC to be successful is based on the team being viable long term. I think MC wants to be here. The key question is can he get the kind of talent to be able to compete with the elite programs. For a guy who started coaching in the video room he has made great strides toward that end. I think he can get it done if I didn't I would be screaming for a change. I'm sure you have heard the old saying be careful what you wish for or the grass is always greener. Take a look at the DePaul program. They sit in the middle of some of the best basketball talent in the country and can't recruit or win. They would kill to have the results MC is supplying now. Here is a suggestion if you want to help be a supporter of all things UC basketball including the coach. Talk him up not down. As you say he isn't going anywhere. I know you support them with ticket sales, include a positive atmosphere. That may help bring more people out and increase revenue which helps scheduling. Well enough of my lecturing have a great New Year.

 

[bearcat jeff]

L-T I don't think changing the coach will bring out the fans. Attendance was trending down before MC took over. I think the economy is playing a huge role in the numbers not just here but across the country. Basketball takes a huge hit because it falls at the time of year holiday spending is at its highest. With the need for discretionary dollars allocated elsewhere the choice between watching at home or attending is easy.My hope is beginning with this years class and next MC will start reaping the benefits of his hard work. I laugh every time I hear people talk about his coaching. The one thing I'm sure of is he can coach. The difficult task for a young coach is convincing top end talent to trust that you can get them in the league. I think he is gaining on that objective. My desire for MC to be successful is based on the team being viable long term. I think MC wants to be here. The key question is can he get the kind of talent to be able to compete with the elite programs. For a guy who started coaching in the video room he has made great strides toward that end. I think he can get it done if I didn't I would be screaming for a change. I'm sure you have heard the old saying be careful what you wish for or the grass is always greener. Take a look at the DePaul program. They sit in the middle of some of the best basketball talent in the country and can't recruit or win. They would kill to have the results MC is supplying now. Here is a suggestion if you want to help be a supporter of all things UC basketball including the coach. Talk him up not down. As you say he isn't going anywhere. I know you support them with ticket sales, include a positive atmosphere. That may help bring more people out and increase revenue which helps scheduling. Well enough of my lecturing have a great New Year.

And that will have to be the last word.