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L-T said:
I don't know Waite. It depends on the name. You tell me. How many names on this list would you take right now over Mick? What is the advantage of him wanting to stay here forever if the recruiting remains underwhelming and the offense remains stagnant and we continue to suck in the postseason?
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None. I think Mick is as successful as any on the list. As the doors for better players open for him the program will continue to grow. I only care about winning. Doesn't matter to me if it is a suffocating defense or a wide open offense. We have won the league title and are a regular participant in the Tourney. Would I like to win every game and Tourney,sure . I have gotten a lot of enjoyment watching a local kid who declares this as his dream job get us to this point. Look if your not happy with the program stop going and donating your time and money. If I get to the point your at going forward and i don't enjoy the product I'll stop going and watching. I think Mick is on the brink of giving all of us the program we want. Trust me if I didn't think he could I would be screaming for a change.



LT my friend basketball is changing. Especially the college game. The day of the one and doner is upon us. I have never been a KY fan but don't like them even more now. I enjoy watching a kid come to the university,develope as a player,person and most importantly get a degree. The SK's are rare. I love senior day. Mick delivers those kind of moments for me. That is why I support his teams.

That is what I think college sports should be about. Kids graduate,grow as people,form life long friendships. They are truly student atheletes. this is the kind of program I want to support. If they don't win as often I'm OK with that. I feel Mick gives me at least some of what im looking for. He takes those kids and they bust there butts for us. They battle.
 
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Patrick Bateman said:
This is a quote from a poster on BCN

Jacob Evans is a pure shooter. Won't fix things this year but Mick saying that he's the best guard he's recruited since Francisco Garcia should tell you something.
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Not that I'm in the same boat as L-T (not even close) but Mick always, always, hypes up everything. Whether its a recruit, opponent, coach, etc, he's always the "best" at something. Take that quote with a HUGE grain of salt.
 
TheLongHaul said:
Not that I'm in the same boat as L-T (not even close) but Mick always, always, hypes up everything. Whether its a recruit, opponent, coach, etc, he's always the "best" at something. Take that quote with a HUGE grain of salt.
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I get what you're saying but I think you can take a LOT away from the statements he makes about recruits. He may exaggerate but he usually gives us a good indication of what a player will be good at...and like all coaches he probably gets it wrong sometimes. I think we all know how to filter through "coach speak".
 
TheLongHaul said:
Not that I'm in the same boat as L-T (not even close) but Mick always, always, hypes up everything. Whether its a recruit, opponent, coach, etc, he's always the "best" at something. Take that quote with a HUGE grain of salt.
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Sometimes I wish the player could make a name for himself instead of being compared to someone first. I know what you are saying and I agree. Mick does hype things up, he is not the only coach that does this and he will not be the last. With that being said, he has been dead on in some instances.
 
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L-T said:
Don't remember that statement. I do remember saying his guys tend to take a full 4 years before they become a good player. Many of his players make the big jump as a senior. Rarely do we see them contribute big early in their careers. Clark might be one of the exceptions. SK and JJ were two who took big leaps as seniors.
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I could be wrong but it seems to me that Mick is gradually getting a higher and higher % of his "primary targets" and having to do less and less "scrambling" late in the recruiting period filling in with secondary targets or worse.

It will be interesting to see how his "primary targets" work out.


I am not trying to make excuses...just throwing things out there to see if there is still reason to believe he can change our offensive prowess. Thoughts?
 
Hold on, didn't most people predict this team would struggle early? Well, they are.

Does the offense need to get better, absolutely. The leading returning scorer for this team was Shaq at 6.X points a game, seems reasonable that they would struggle mightily on offense early. I know people don't want to hear it but this team has a chance to be elite defensively over the next 1.5 seasons and that alone will keep them in games.

Recruiting, on the upswing imo. All of the freshman will contribute this season. Next years class seems to fill the necessary gaps.

I get that sports fans are going to freak out but some of the criticisms being thrown out are premature. Reminds me of people boldly proclaiming the football team wouldn't win another game after starting 2-3.
 
L-T said:
Don't remember that statement. I do remember saying his guys tend to take a full 4 years before they become a good player. Many of his players make the big jump as a senior. Rarely do we see them contribute big early in their careers. Clark might be one of the exceptions. SK and JJ were two who took big leaps as seniors.
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Vaughn made the biggest impact as a frosh. Other honorable mentions that might not be up to your high standards I would say Gates, Dion Dixon (7+ppg off the bench) and this other player making $9,000,000 a year down in Charlotte had a pretty good year here
 
WAITE HOYT 2 said:
None. I think Mick is as successful as any on the list. As the doors for better players open for him the program will continue to grow. I only care about winning. Doesn't matter to me if it is a suffocating defense or a wide open offense. We have won the league title and are a regular participant in the Tourney. Would I like to win every game and Tourney,sure . I have gotten a lot of enjoyment watching a local kid who declares this as his dream job get us to this point. Look if your not happy with the program stop going and donating your time and money. If I get to the point your at going forward and i don't enjoy the product I'll stop going and watching. I think Mick is on the brink of giving all of us the program we want. Trust me if I didn't think he could I would be screaming for a change.



LT my friend basketball is changing. Especially the college game. The day of the one and doner is upon us. I have never been a KY fan but don't like them even more now. I enjoy watching a kid come to the university,develope as a player,person and most importantly get a degree. The SK's are rare. I love senior day. Mick delivers those kind of moments for me. That is why I support his teams.

That is what I think college sports should be about. Kids graduate,grow as people,form life long friendships. They are truly student atheletes. this is the kind of program I want to support. If they don't win as often I'm OK with that. I feel Mick gives me at least some of what im looking for. He takes those kids and they bust there butts for us. They battle.
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Waite, you're a little late to the party. The day of the one and doner was upon us 20 years ago. So, in that respect, nothing has changed. I guess the fact that you would choose to leave the program if you were where I am sets us apart as fans. I'm an alum of the university and I'm loyal to the core. I've continued my support thru far worst periods than the Mick Cronin era. Bottom line, the program is capable of far more that it is producing today. Is today bad? Absolutely not. We're nine years down the road on what many on these forums once declared was a six year process to surpass the annual disappointing results of the Bob Huggins era. And, at year six, we were there at the sweet 16 with only a bright future supposedly ahead of us. Two and a half years later, we've been bounced in the opening round twice by Missouri Valley and Ivy League teams and the early results from this season aren't promising that this season will be any better. In fact, the general mood of the masses on Dec. 17, 2014 is that we're probably at serious risk of not even making the tournament this year. If that happens, or even if we make it and lose in the opening round again, that is a three year period where the trend is definitely not up. With attendance still not any better, with the university having to significantly discount tickets to get people to show up, how long do you continue to let that play out with this faith that better times are right around the corner?

We were once a complete dump of a football program and Rick Minter was hired and began moving the trend line up. In 10 of the 11 seasons before he was hired, we had losing seasons. In his 2nd season, he turned us into a winner, and had two more winning seasons in a row after that. In his final 4 seasons, he was 26-24 and took us to 3 bowl games. With not a single thing in our past to support the feeling, the administration decided that Minter had done a good job, but they didn't feel he could get us to the next level. Are you kidding me? We went from losing every single season to winning seasons and trips to bowl games, and we fired the guy because someone thought he couldn't get us to the next level, a level that we had never been at before. Guess what, they were right and the rest is history. We achieved levels of success that nobody on Earth would have thought possible.

Now we have our basketball program, which does have a rich winning tradition that has achieved any and all levels of success imaginable and is considered in the top 10 or top 20 programs of all time depending on what publication you read. We know what this program is capable of and it is far beyond what we're seeing on the court today and what we've seen the past two years. You believe Mick Cronin can get us to that next level. I have my doubts. We'll see who is right. I believe he's going to have to prove it soon or the same people who made the Rick Minter decision will start doing their thing.
 
L-T said:
Waite, you're a little late to the party. The day of the one and doner was upon us 20 years ago. So, in that respect, nothing has changed. I guess the fact that you would choose to leave the program if you were where I am sets us apart as fans. I'm an alum of the university and I'm loyal to the core. I've continued my support thru far worst periods than the Mick Cronin era. Bottom line, the program is capable of far more that it is producing today. Is today bad? Absolutely not. We're nine years down the road on what many on these forums once declared was a six year process to surpass the annual disappointing results of the Bob Huggins era. And, at year six, we were there at the sweet 16 with only a bright future supposedly ahead of us. Two and a half years later, we've been bounced in the opening round twice by Missouri Valley and Ivy League teams and the early results from this season aren't promising that this season will be any better. In fact, the general mood of the masses on Dec. 17, 2014 is that we're probably at serious risk of not even making the tournament this year. If that happens, or even if we make it and lose in the opening round again, that is a three year period where the trend is definitely not up. With attendance still not any better, with the university having to significantly discount tickets to get people to show up, how long do you continue to let that play out with this faith that better times are right around the corner?

We were once a complete dump of a football program and Rick Minter was hired and began moving the trend line up. In 10 of the 11 seasons before he was hired, we had losing seasons. In his 2nd season, he turned us into a winner, and had two more winning seasons in a row after that. In his final 4 seasons, he was 26-24 and took us to 3 bowl games. With not a single thing in our past to support the feeling, the administration decided that Minter had done a good job, but they didn't feel he could get us to the next level. Are you kidding me? We went from losing every single season to winning seasons and trips to bowl games, and we fired the guy because someone thought he couldn't get us to the next level, a level that we had never been at before. Guess what, they were right and the rest is history. We achieved levels of success that nobody on Earth would have thought possible.

Now we have our basketball program, which does have a rich winning tradition that has achieved any and all levels of success imaginable and is considered in the top 10 or top 20 programs of all time depending on what publication you read. We know what this program is capable of and it is far beyond what we're seeing on the court today and what we've seen the past two years. You believe Mick Cronin can get us to that next level. I have my doubts. We'll see who is right. I believe he's going to have to prove it soon or the same people who made the Rick Minter decision will start doing their thing.
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LT there are many more changes occurring. This is far from the game it was 10 years ago. Conference alignment for one. I think Mick is proving to be very capable and judging my his contract status,the results,expectations of his bosses I think he has a longer leash then you think. As you say time will tell. Go Cats!!!
 
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WAITE HOYT 2 said:
LT there are many more changes occurring. This is far from the game it was 10 years ago. Conference alignment for one. I think Mick is proving to be very capable and judging my his contract status,the results,expectations of his bosses I think he has a longer leash then you think. As you say time will tell. Go Cats!!!
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Don't get me wrong Waite, it would be far better for our program as a whole if you're the one to be proven right. Let's hope tonight is the start of something good. I'm anticipating a god-awful ugly offensive game, but two of our last four offensive performances have actually been pretty good, so I'm going with the odds being in our favor for a turn-around offensively. I don't think it is possible to duplicate Saturday's effort in two consecutive games. Tonight has to be better!
 
aronius said:
Hold on, didn't most people predict this team would struggle early? Well, they are.

Does the offense need to get better, absolutely. The leading returning scorer for this team was Shaq at 6.X points a game, seems reasonable that they would struggle mightily on offense early. I know people don't want to hear it but this team has a chance to be elite defensively over the next 1.5 seasons and that alone will keep them in games.

Recruiting, on the upswing imo. All of the freshman will contribute this season. Next years class seems to fill the necessary gaps.

I get that sports fans are going to freak out but some of the criticisms being thrown out are premature. Reminds me of people boldly proclaiming the football team wouldn't win another game after starting 2-3.
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What he said!!

Cronin has been given a chance to produce offense over the years. Criticizing him is one thing but criticizing the team and the players is another.

This team and many of the new players have not been given enough time to get comfortable and confident at DI level, develop chemistry as a team, and figure out what their roles are going to be. At the very least...let's not lump the players in with coaching criticism. Right now...I would be embarrassed as a fan if I knew some of our young players would come on these boards and read some of the most negative of the reviews.

I get the concern...but there are better ways of wording disproval without saying things like "this team is horrible" "or these guys suck" or "we have no talent" etc. If the product looks the same at mid season or late season...it would at least be more understandable then...but I would personally still find better ways to say it...just my opinion
 
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L-T, while I have my concerns about Mick's recruiting and his offensive philosophies, it's seriously groundhog day with you. You keep making the same point over and over and over after every game. Time to give it a rest.
 
waterhead said:
I could be wrong but it seems to me that Mick is gradually getting a higher and higher % of his "primary targets" and having to do less and less "scrambling" late in the recruiting period filling in with secondary targets or worse.

It will be interesting to see how his "primary targets" work out.


I am not trying to make excuses...just throwing things out there to see if there is still reason to believe he can change our offensive prowess. Thoughts?
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The recent recruits are definitely a step up from before. But, the offense hasn't shown any improvement as a result. I do have more confidense in the possibility of their skill level delivering a better player sooner than their 4th year. Getting 2 or 3 good years out of some of them will be a big step up.
 
TheLongHaul said:
L-T, while I have my concerns about Mick's recruiting and his offensive philosophies, it's seriously groundhog day with you. You keep making the same point over and over and over after every game. Time to give it a rest.
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LH, those that love Mick unconditionally are also posting the same stuff over and over after every single game as well (however, some of his support melted down a little after Saturday). It's a forum. One person posts something. Someone else responds to the post. Hardly a damn thing was posted in the 2 weeks leading up to the game, so I gave it a long rest there...as did everyone else. From May to October, I posted 3 times, so I gave it a very long rest there. After tonight, we'll move on to the next topic, or it could be the same. That's what a forum is for. When I get asked questions, I respond. When someone says something stupid, I respond. You do also. But, I sort of agree that as of today, that particular topic needs some "time-out".
 

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