Not as bad as it seems.

[WAITE HOYT 2]

IMO it is more likely they just aren't quite ready for significant minutes in bigger games (against stiffer competition) rather than their play deteriorating by reduced minutes. There was a discussion about this very thing potentially happening after we watched a scrimmage and an exhibition game. I do agree confidence plays a factor in how you play but the player also has to instill confidence in the coach that they can handle it. They've both had plenty of moments to show the coach what they are capable of both good and bad.

That being said I hope to see more of Jenifer because Troy could use more of a rest. We have different ways of subbing for Clark with a DeBerry/Ellis combination or playing smaller with Shaq. Clark is going to get 30 minutes anyway. I would not play Moore any more than spot minutes in close games...he's not ready for the big time yet.

Couldn't agree more on Quadri. Jenifer is not ready for prime time either. That said, the problem Mick is having is that Cobb and KJ have been anything but consistent. Both have had their moments but it hasn't been enough. In a perfect world Cobb could sub at the PG spot as he did last year with KJ handling the 2 but neither give you that dribble penetration that Jenifer can. Evans could also run some 2 with Shaq at the 3. Would love to see how practice goes with these guys. it has to be a war.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Couldn't agree more on Quadri. Jenifer is not ready for prime time either. That said, the problem Mick is having is that Cobb and KJ have been anything but consistent. Both have had their moments but it hasn't been enough. In a perfect world Cobb could sub at the PG spot as he did last year with KJ handling the 2 but neither give you that dribble penetration that Jenifer can. Evans could also run some 2 with Shaq at the 3. Would love to see how practice goes with these guys. it has to be a war.

Cobb has been just fine imo. Scored in double figures in 10 of 13 games.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Cobb has been just fine imo. Scored in double figures in 10 of 13 games.

He certainly has been more effective then KJ offensively. Scoring is only one part of the game. Like most of our guards defensively we have allowed players to penetrate and dish all year long. Stopping the ball has been the thing I have been most disappointed in. you got to play both ends of the court. We have played the Ole defense far to often this season especially at the guard spot.

 

[Bulldog01]

It's crazy how our lunatic fans always say our players ain't ready then come back and say we let other team not ready guys have career nights against us!

 

[ZCat]

I would say that's a coaching issue that could be changed at any point in time. If he doesn't do as told...pull him out for DeBerry. I don't think Mick has addressed it sufficiently or it wouldn't be happening so often.

As for Evans, I'm afraid you're right, I'm not sure we will see him starting this year as Mick has said it's not important who starts. I disagree with Mick on that point. I could potentially agree with him if we had a 6th man who was just as good as our 5th man or vice versa.

On post game or coaches show this year Mick was discussing Ellis and how it has been a long process w/ him. He had a growth spurt, moved down low and still doesn't turn and shoot. Stated they do drill for turn and shoot, or catch and shoot. No dribbling. You are right the answer is subbing him. Maybe Mick needs his D out n didn't want to shake his confidence. Remember how he rebounded and was one of the stars in NY Barclay's. No good solution for the turn overs I guess.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

He certainly has been more effective then KJ offensively. Scoring is only one part of the game. Like most of our guards defensively we have allowed players to penetrate and dish all year long. Stopping the ball has been the thing I have been most disappointed in. you got to play both ends of the court. We have played the Ole defense far to often this season especially at the guard spot.

Most of us wanted Cobb to start last year when he was much more inconsistent, scoring less, and shooting worse across the board. I'm just surprised to hear someone lump him in with KJ and call him "anything but consistent". Say what you want about his defense, but I'll never be able to agree that him subbing at PG is a perfect world solution. He's our leading scorer and best shooter, he's fine right where he is imo.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

On post game or coaches show this year Mick was discussing Ellis and how it has been a long process w/ him. He had a growth spurt, moved down low and still doesn't turn and shoot. Stated they do drill for turn and shoot, or catch and shoot. No dribbling. You are right the answer is subbing him. Maybe Mick needs his D out n didn't want to shake his confidence. Remember how he rebounded and was one of the stars in NY Barclay's. No good solution for the turn overs I guess.

The solution is to stop running offense through him...and I bet we will.

 

[L-T]

IMO it is more likely they just aren't quite ready for significant minutes in bigger games (against stiffer competition) rather than their play deteriorating by reduced minutes. There was a discussion about this very thing potentially happening after we watched a scrimmage and an exhibition game. I do agree confidence plays a factor in how you play but the player also has to instill confidence in the coach that they can handle it. They've both had plenty of moments to show the coach what they are capable of both good and bad.

That being said I hope to see more of Jenifer because Troy could use more of a rest. We have different ways of subbing for Clark with a DeBerry/Ellis combination or playing smaller with Shaq. Clark is going to get 30 minutes anyway. I would not play Moore any more than spot minutes in close games...he's not ready for the big time yet.

I disagree. When they had their minutes, they settled into the flow of each game more consistently and both played with far more confidense. When they lost minutes, they seemed to come into the game intent on trying to prove themselves (especially Quadri), or trying to avoid making mistakes and playing less aggressively (primarily Jenifer). It affected each one differently, but both in a negative way. I saw both doing nice things, but more importantly, playing with confidense and improving, and suddenly they each changed. Quadri started trying to do too much and just began looking stupid. Jenifer became the quintessential Cronin guard (passing around the 3 point line with no penetration).

This is just an opinion on all our part, but I think the decision to tighten the rotation hurt this particular team. Sometimes it helps. But, the team has clearly not looked nearly as good since he did it, even against the cupcakes who followed that decision.

 

[ZCat]

When we plugged in Cobb at the end of the year last year starting with Caupain I though we played some of our best ball. I can only imagine the same thing would happen this year if we plugged in Evans to start. There is a reason almost every team in the country (NBA, HS, and NCAA) starts their best 5 players. Sure there are exceptions but for the most part you are most effective with your best 5 players on the court.

Earlier this yr Mick said starters could change. He knows how good Evans is. It is like the FF yr. When we lost our first game if memory serves, Huggs took out AD and started NVE. Of course he was better than Evans but it is clear we need him starting. I hope there is a lineup change today at SF.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Most of us wanted Cobb to start last year when he was much more inconsistent, scoring less, and shooting worse across the board. I'm just surprised to hear someone lump him in with KJ and call him "anything but consistent". Say what you want about his defense, but I'll never be able to agree that him subbing at PG is a perfect world solution. He's our leading scorer and best shooter, he's fine right where he is imo.

I'm fine with him starting this year. He has outplayed KJ. My point is there is much more to the game then scoring. If Coach is unwilling to play Jenifer he has to handle the rock when Troy is not in game. Who else would??? Evans??? I guess a perfect world solution is that Jenifer could do it but from the substitution patterns Coach does not see it that way. They are running a 3 man rotation at the 1 and 2. KJ,Troy and Cobb. When Troy is not on the floor Cobb has to handle the rock. Your idea of consistent and mine are different. Consistency happens on both ends of the floor. All around game is important. Mick going back to his early years here has always wanted 2 guys on the floor that could handle the ball.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I disagree. When they had their minutes, they settled into the flow of each game more consistently and both played with far more confidense. When they lost minutes, they seemed to come into the game intent on trying to prove themselves (especially Quadri), or trying to avoid making mistakes and playing less aggressively (primarily Jenifer). It affected each one differently, but both in a negative way. I saw both doing nice things, but more importantly, playing with confidense and improving, and suddenly they each changed. Quadri started trying to do too much and just began looking stupid. Jenifer became the quintessential Cronin guard (passing around the 3 point line with no penetration).

This is just an opinion on all our part, but I think the decision to tighten the rotation hurt this particular team. Sometimes it helps. But, the team has clearly not looked nearly as good since he did it, even against the cupcakes who followed that decision.

Its a long season. shortening the rotation was going to happen when we got to the meat of the schedule. Finding roles and building continuity is a must and very difficult when trying to play 10 guys in different combinations. Especially doing it within the context of the game. I guess at seasons end will know if mick made the right decision.

 

[ZCat]

He certainly has been more effective then KJ offensively. Scoring is only one part of the game. Like most of our guards defensively we have allowed players to penetrate and dish all year long. Stopping the ball has been the thing I have been most disappointed in. you got to play both ends of the court. We have played the Ole defense far to often this season especially at the guard spot.

Never remember a UC team show so little resistance on D. Ole is correct.There is no way we can win more than 1 maybe 2 tourney games w that kind of D. Turnovers are also an Achilles heel

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I disagree. When they had their minutes, they settled into the flow of each game more consistently and both played with far more confidense. When they lost minutes, they seemed to come into the game intent on trying to prove themselves (especially Quadri), or trying to avoid making mistakes and playing less aggressively (primarily Jenifer). It affected each one differently, but both in a negative way. I saw both doing nice things, but more importantly, playing with confidense and improving, and suddenly they each changed. Quadri started trying to do too much and just began looking stupid. Jenifer became the quintessential Cronin guard (passing around the 3 point line with no penetration).

This is just an opinion on all our part, but I think the decision to tighten the rotation hurt this particular team. Sometimes it helps. But, the team has clearly not looked nearly as good since he did it, even against the cupcakes who followed that decision.

It is so hard to do anything in 2 minutes. I get when people say you have to earn your minutes, but being giving 2 minutes to showcase why you should play more is unreasonable. Still only 13 games in, I think we'll have plenty of games to see all 10 guys get some good minutes and a real chance to gain experience and confidence.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Never remember a UC team show so little resistance on D. Ole is correct.There is no way we can win more than 1 maybe 2 tourney games w that kind of D. Turnovers are also an Achilles heel

Taking care of the ball has been a problem for awhile now. Putting the ball through the hoop is big but if you give up as many as you make or your lack of defense causes to many switches or help defense which leads to fouls that is not good either. I really think that we spent lots of time on offense. With the rule changes it was imperative. It has in my opinion caused our defense to suffer. As the season rolls on hopefully things will even out.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I'm fine with him starting this year. He has outplayed KJ. My point is there is much more to the game then scoring. If Coach is unwilling to play Jenifer he has to handle the rock when Troy is not in game. Who else would??? Evans??? I guess a perfect world solution is that Jenifer could do it but from the substitution patterns Coach does not see it that way. They are running a 3 man rotation at the 1 and 2. KJ,Troy and Cobb. When Troy is not on the floor Cobb has to handle the rock. Your idea of consistent and mine are different. Consistency happens on both ends of the floor. All around game is important. Mick going back to his early years here has always wanted 2 guys on the floor that could handle the ball.

Yeah thanks. Didn't know that.

Cobb is 1st on the team in steals btw.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Taking care of the ball has been a problem for awhile now. Putting the ball through the hoop is big but if you give up as many as you make or your lack of defense causes to many switches or help defense which leads to fouls that is not good either. I really think that we spent lots of time on offense. With the rule changes it was imperative. It has in my opinion caused our defense to suffer. As the season rolls on hopefully things will even out.

I'm optimistic on that.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

It is so hard to do anything in 2 minutes. I get when people say you have to earn your minutes, but being giving 2 minutes to showcase why you should play more is unreasonable. Still only 13 games in, I think we'll have plenty of games to see all 10 guys get some good minutes and a real chance to gain experience and confidence.

Jacob he gets time in practice everyday. I think we come from two different era's. In mine you earn your court time in practice. Certainly there is more pressure to perform in games. Saying the reason he isn't performing well in games because he feels pressure is not the whole picture. He could help himself immensely by forcing Coach's hand by playing lights out in his limited game time and at practice. The guy that makes that decision does not agree and he sees him everyday. I would love to see him excel. we need him. I've stated many times that TC is more suited as a 2 guard then PG. But he has to earn his minutes. that starts with him proving to the Coach even in small sample sizes that he can get the job done. he obviously has not.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I'm optimistic on that.

me to brother. I really think we haven't scratched the surface of how well we can play yet.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Yeah thanks. Didn't know that.

Cobb is 1st on the team in steals btw.

Is this were w are going. I thought we were having a discussion. have you not watched the games. we are getting killed on the perimeter. Most of which is set up by going for steals and getting blown by with dribble penetration.

oh and if you want civility on the board then demonstrate it or as I sugested last game ignore my post.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Jacob he gets time in practice everyday. I think we come from two different era's. In mine you earn your court time in practice. Certainly there is more pressure to perform in games. Saying the reason he isn't performing well in games because he feels pressure is not the whole picture. He could help himself immensely by forcing Coach's hand by playing lights out in his limited game time and at practice. The guy that makes that decision does not agree and he sees him everyday. I would love to see him excel. we need him. I've stated many times that TC is more suited as a 2 guard then PG. But he has to earn his minutes. that starts with him proving to the Coach even in small sample sizes that he can get the job done. he obviously has not.

I have zero idea what Jenifer looks like in practice. But Mick himself has said he'd like to get him more minutes, so I'd assume that means he's doing fine.

For me, it's just too tough to judge someone thrown into the 2nd half of a Top 25 battle for a single 2 minute spurt. Anyone who has ever played basketball understands that kind of feeling.