Possible Recruits

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Called it. Expected it yesterday but the Madsen brothers committed today. Add Traynor or Scrubb and this will be a very very nice class.

Hoping we can nail down either Traynor or Eason next and then maybe pocket one for later unless we can land a stud C or another PF now. I would probably also take Scrubb as the last scholly. I assume we could see a transfer or two again so take any high quality recruit you can get right now.
 
I would go with two freshmen bigs. 2020-21 is looking like a down season, currently we will have 7 players or are freshmen/sophomores in 20-21 and only 4 upperclassmen. 2 of those upperclassmen (Moore, Vogt) are guys who haven't looked very good at this point in their careers.

We already saw this year that quality grad transfer bigs are hard to get. It would be nice to add a freshman PF who can contribute immediately (would presumably be Prince's backup). A grad transfer PF is also an option, but if 20-21 is a down year, than it's better to give playing time to younger players.

Traynor is an interesting prospect and a guy I'd definitely take. He has the offensive skills to be a major threat. But his lack of weight and experience playing down low is concerning. Seems like a guy who will RS and hopefully the potential will pay off in a a couple years. I'm not sure his rating will stick, with the way he shot up, I could easily see him dropping back to the 100-150 range.

We definitely have a lot of unknowns right now for 2020 in terms of bigs but we should know a lot more about Dou and Prince by end of year. Vogt will remain a question but Brannen seems to think he can contribute at least some of what he is going to need and he will know the system very well.

If we can grab Traynor or Eason next...we can wait to see how the others are playing. Potentially Davenport can add a little bit for us as a taller wing/small ball 4. If we plan to run with one player at the 5 we have Dou and Vogt. Dou can probably play 4 or 5.

It looks like we have the 1, 2, and 3 spots locked up for the future. The addition of Madsen(s) really kind of wrap all of that up quite nicely with depth on the wing and a ball handler.

Even if we take 2 bigs to round out the class...I think we may have room for Scrubb (if he is available) by virtue of a player going into the portal after the year. That could happen with or without any influence from the coach as to what their future role looks like.

I would not mind a high caliber HS kid or a proven transfer in terms of the last big. I say add both bigs and then see what options are available if Scrubb wants to come too.
 
I really like the addition of Madsen(s)! As it relates to Gabe I think we can throw away his ranking or stars as Brannen clearly/likely sees Gabe as an impact player and he probably sees valuable minutes in both short and long term with him. He put on the full court press for the player(s) he wanted.

A lot of that is due to his actual play and maybe just as much has to do with his character, his brother's character, his families character, their dedication to being gym rats, their attitude etc. Brannen wants the character kids it seems as much as Cronin did. It's good for the locker room. I like the idea that Mason is not afraid to fight through a depth chart to earn his PT. That is confidence!

But Gabe has some serious skill at creating his shots and executing even with a hand in his face. He doesn't seem to need much more than an inch to get his shot off and his trigger is lightning quick (and pretty accurate to boot). He knows how to use his body to create space in the paint or beyond and he has a nice step back jumper game.

I know the stars scare some people as to why we would offer both of them...but this didn't seem like too hard of a decision for Brannen. At worst Mason gives you a pinch 3rd ball handler and SG option...so he adds depth at 2 positions.
 
And how cool is it to see guys like Saunders and Dou and Davenport and others selling potential recruits to help the coaches? Saunders is a very strong recruit in his own right even if all he did was just play ball. But how much more value does he add from a selling standpoint? Clearly Davenport is a positive force in that regard as well. These guys are excited to be Bearcats and their enthusiasm can be or already is contagious. Scott was also very vocal about CJB and playing for him.

The long term relationships CJB built with Saunders and Davenport (and even Scott going back years) can pay dividends beyond on the court production. I never really thought that much about value added from our commits as it relates to future recruiting but I am taking notice now. If they help land high level guys...they are adding additional value that is hard to quantify...in some cases before they ever step foot on the court.

Would you rather have a high quality 3 star guy who will sell your program (and help you land other high level recruits) or a 4 star guy who just keeps his trap shut and plays ball? That additional sales value may just be worth another star in it's own right.
 
I do think this move with the Madsen twins is really risky, but I have to trust that the coaching staff knows what they are capable of with regards to development. Brannen certainly has experience at NKU of turning some not-so-top-talent into competitive team players.

And in Mason Madsen's defense, although he might not currently be as highly recruited or ranked as someone like Justin Jenifer or Logan Johnson, he has been the target for some D1 programs that are no slouch. I do think he's a viable D1 player.

And based on the highlight reels, his value to the team might equate someone like Jenifer, who had to develop over time before he really became a productive scorer. He might be a glorified scout team player for a bit, but I think he's too big and skilled to not develop for us. Mason may have a nicer looking shot right now, and has a whole year to develop what his brother already has with the skill to drive to the hoop. His ball handling and passing seem like there is something good to work with.

The big risk is if one the twins does feel like it's not a great fit. Does the other one join in trying to leave? That could be a lot to replace if it's unexpected. Worse, if Gabe doesn't really develop into the wing player we need (or God forbid he's injured), was it worth it to take a guard you probably didn't have to take, given the current backcourt players on the roster? We might find a Mason Madsen in the woodwork without trying, but if he's unhappy and then Gabe wants to jump ship too, was it worth it? I think Marquette's Coach Wojo, who has struck out with two sets of brothers more talented than these two, would say it's not.

But they are committed and they seem like really good dudes to have. So let's look forward to it and cheer for the best! I am excited to see what they can bring to the court.

I echo the sentiments that it's great news to hear how the current players are working to strengthen the team. I think we're in a good place for growth.
 
I do think this move with the Madsen twins is really risky, but I have to trust that the coaching staff knows what they are capable of with regards to development. Brannen certainly has experience at NKU of turning some not-so-top-talent into competitive team players.

And in Mason Madsen's defense, although he might not currently be as highly recruited or ranked as someone like Justin Jenifer or Logan Johnson, he has been the target for some D1 programs that are no slouch. I do think he's a viable D1 player.

And based on the highlight reels, his value to the team might equate someone like Jenifer, who had to develop over time before he really became a productive scorer. He might be a glorified scout team player for a bit, but I think he's too big and skilled to not develop for us. Mason may have a nicer looking shot right now, and has a whole year to develop what his brother already has with the skill to drive to the hoop. His ball handling and passing seem like there is something good to work with.

The big risk is if one the twins does feel like it's not a great fit. Does the other one join in trying to leave? That could be a lot to replace if it's unexpected. Worse, if Gabe doesn't really develop into the wing player we need (or God forbid he's injured), was it worth it to take a guard you probably didn't have to take, given the current backcourt players on the roster? We might find a Mason Madsen in the woodwork without trying, but if he's unhappy and then Gabe wants to jump ship too, was it worth it? I think Marquette's Coach Wojo, who has struck out with two sets of brothers more talented than these two, would say it's not.

But they are committed and they seem like really good dudes to have. So let's look forward to it and cheer for the best! I am excited to see what they can bring to the court.

I echo the sentiments that it's great news to hear how the current players are working to strengthen the team. I think we're in a good place for growth.
Yeah I completely agree and it's another reason why the twins concern me. There's also the possibility that Mason turns into a quality starter and Gabe into a star and they decide to leave together to go to a bigger program that previously wouldn't have recruited them both.

But Gabe looks like a very nice player, so now we hope it works out and that they love it here at Cincinnati. It is concerning that Brannen's two highest recruits have both been high risk guys, I don't mind a risk here and there, but take too many and eventually it will come back to bite.
 
It is concerning that Brannen's two highest recruits have both been high risk guys, I don't mind a risk here and there, but take too many and eventually it will come back to bite.

Brannen's two highest recruits are not these twins and I hardly think they are "risks".

Brannen's rated recruits:

(2019 class) Zach Harvery **** (ranked 49th nationally - 247)
(2020 class) Gabe Madsen *** (ranked 166 nationally - 247)
(2020 class) Mike Saunders *** (ranked 191 nationally - 247)
(2020 class) Mika Adams Woods *** (ranked 244 nationally - 247)
(2020 class) Mason Madsen *** (ranked 385 nationally - 247)

Everyone seems worried about Mason and his rankings but those same people didn't bat an eye when we signed Moore (ranked 344), Gillam (ranked 322), Hardnett (ranked 264), Nsosme (ranked 471).

For what it's worth, Mason Madsen was just upgraded to a 3* on Rivals.
 
Brannen's two highest recruits are not these twins and I hardly think they are "risks".

Brannen's rated recruits:

(2019 class) Zach Harvery **** (ranked 49th nationally - 247)
(2020 class) Gabe Madsen *** (ranked 166 nationally - 247)
(2020 class) Mike Saunders *** (ranked 191 nationally - 247)
(2020 class) Mika Adams Woods *** (ranked 244 nationally - 247)
(2020 class) Mason Madsen *** (ranked 385 nationally - 247)

Everyone seems worried about Mason and his rankings but those same people didn't bat an eye when we signed Moore (ranked 344), Gillam (ranked 322), Hardnett (ranked 264), Nsosme (ranked 471).

For what it's worth, Mason Madsen was just upgraded to a 3* on Rivals.

Zach Harvey is a high risk guy - his past legal problems mean one mistake and he is out. Gabe is also high risk imo due to the above mentioned potential problems with twins who want to play together.

I don't have a major issue with low rated guys - especially bigs, as I think ratings are a bit of a joke anyway. Cronin had success because he got guys who fit his system and who he could develop and I imagine Brannen is going to follow the same script.

The issue I have is with using a scholarship on a guy at a position where we already have a lot of young depth. Mason will be no better than 3rd on the depth chart at either PG or SG and the players he is behind will be within a year of him (unless he redshirts to create a little seperation). Meanwhile, we have a serious lack of depth at PF/C.

Bigs tend to be projects no matter the rating (unless they are 5* or high 4*) and harder to get. As such, most non-blueblood teams are going to have to take lower rated bigs and develop them. If Mason was a 6'8" project I'd have no issue with him at his rating.
 
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Yeah, I'd say Zach and Gabe are the risks for reasons mentioned. Not anywhere near the risks this program has dealt with over the decades, but nonetheless. I'm going forward with the assumption all our players are good dudes working to be the best they can.

Just seeing how all these guys are guards makes me nervous about the front court in coming years. Glad Vogt is at least someone onboard who is going to be mature, hungary, and hopefully stronger after his gap year. I'm expecting Cincinnati will be attractive to frontcourt players looking to transfer, especially if this first season under Brannen goes well.
 
The biggest risk is not that Gabe leaves with Mason. It’s that they spend 4 years here and never pan out. If they leave we recruit again. If they stay they hold two scholarships for potentially 4 years.

Some of you are worried about the wrong thing.
 
I don't get the risk with Harvey either. We are talking about the 13th scholly here. Cronin left two spots open several years in a row with no players to fill them. Harvey would have been a no brainer with open schollies that late in the game. The risk here is the 13th scholly and a player that probably wasn't going to play much. Concerning behavioral issues you can cut bait after 1 year on Harvey if you need to. The reward is a potential 4 year player and 3 year starter. The risk is you lose your 13th man off the bench or your 13th scholly.

Who's not going to take that deal every time??? The only risk here is NOT taking Harvey!
 
I do think this move with the Madsen twins is really risky, but I have to trust that the coaching staff knows what they are capable of with regards to development. Brannen certainly has experience at NKU of turning some not-so-top-talent into competitive team players.

And in Mason Madsen's defense, although he might not currently be as highly recruited or ranked as someone like Justin Jenifer or Logan Johnson, he has been the target for some D1 programs that are no slouch. I do think he's a viable D1 player.

And based on the highlight reels, his value to the team might equate someone like Jenifer, who had to develop over time before he really became a productive scorer. He might be a glorified scout team player for a bit, but I think he's too big and skilled to not develop for us. Mason may have a nicer looking shot right now, and has a whole year to develop what his brother already has with the skill to drive to the hoop. His ball handling and passing seem like there is something good to work with.

The big risk is if one the twins does feel like it's not a great fit. Does the other one join in trying to leave? That could be a lot to replace if it's unexpected. Worse, if Gabe doesn't really develop into the wing player we need (or God forbid he's injured), was it worth it to take a guard you probably didn't have to take, given the current backcourt players on the roster? We might find a Mason Madsen in the woodwork without trying, but if he's unhappy and then Gabe wants to jump ship too, was it worth it? I think Marquette's Coach Wojo, who has struck out with two sets of brothers more talented than these two, would say it's not.

But they are committed and they seem like really good dudes to have. So let's look forward to it and cheer for the best! I am excited to see what they can bring to the court.

I echo the sentiments that it's great news to hear how the current players are working to strengthen the team. I think we're in a good place for growth.
other teams have had plenty of success with brothers. Lopez brothers Stanford Morris brothers Kansas Harrison brothers Kentucky Plumlee brothers Duke probably more. maybe multiple brothers transfering out of Marquette says more about Coach Woj than it does about brothers being risky
 
Yeah I completely agree and it's another reason why the twins concern me. There's also the possibility that Mason turns into a quality starter and Gabe into a star and they decide to leave together to go to a bigger program that previously wouldn't have recruited them both.

But Gabe looks like a very nice player, so now we hope it works out and that they love it here at Cincinnati. It is concerning that Brannen's two highest recruits have both been high risk guys, I don't mind a risk here and there, but take too many and eventually it will come back to bite.

This argument is completely asinine and you've been trying to spread it on multiple boards. Thankfully people have been calling you out. To call Gabe Mason a high risk recruit is just flat out stupid. There is no risk whatsoever. So they took his brother as well and that makes it a high risk? You are downplaying all the potential positives of having brothers on the same team and only focusing on some outrageous negatives such as they might both leave one day. Any star recruit can leave, transfer, whatever.

IF you want to call Harvey a risk, fine. I'd completely disagree but whatever. Calling the Mason brothers a high risk shows how far your head is stuck up Cronin's ass. I'm sure you were cool with Cronin taking Lance Stephenson, Alvin Mitchel, Ellis (twice - once after he had already been kicked off the team), Lawrence, Jason Henry, etc.
 
This argument is completely asinine and you've been trying to spread it on multiple boards. Thankfully people have been calling you out. To call Gabe Mason a high risk recruit is just flat out stupid. There is no risk whatsoever. So they took his brother as well and that makes it a high risk? You are downplaying all the potential positives of having brothers on the same team and only focusing on some outrageous negatives such as they might both leave one day. Any star recruit can leave, transfer, whatever.

IF you want to call Harvey a risk, fine. I'd completely disagree but whatever. Calling the Mason brothers a high risk shows how far your head is stuck up Cronin's ass. I'm sure you were cool with Cronin taking Lance Stephenson, Alvin Mitchel, Ellis (twice - once after he had already been kicked off the team), Lawrence, Jason Henry, etc.

Like many others, you resort to calling things stupid and attacking me because your arguments hold no weight. I started posting more on this forum to stay away from this type of angry, defensive, substance-less post.

In terms of their recruitment, Harvey and Gabe each had something that prevented a number of schools from recruiting them (Harvey - legal issues, Gabe - only wanted to play with schools that also recruited his twin). These are things that quite a few schools saw and made them pass. Gabe is initially a higher risk because we had to spend a scholarship on Mason, who plays a position we don't need depth at (and I don't think anyone thinks we would have recruited Mason without Gabe).

Most players choose their favorite school and their decision to stay is only up to themselves. We don't know how much Mason would influence Gabe's decision. But there is the possibility that if Mason leaves due to lack of playing time, Gabe would also leave. That makes the risk of Gabe leaving higher than if we just had Gabe.

As for Harvey, you think Harvey is no higher risk? Than why do you think so many schools passed on him? Even Brannen said that Harvey understands he can't make another mistake.

Where did I saw I don't like Harvey? I said I don't mind taking risks here and there. I'm happy with Harvey. I can be happy with him, while still acknowledging we got him because we were willing to gamble a little. Gabe I think looks great, but is only a 160 rated recruits, we should be able to get recruits in the 150-200 range without any strings attached.
 
I don't get the risk with Harvey either. We are talking about the 13th scholly here. Cronin left two spots open several years in a row with no players to fill them. Harvey would have been a no brainer with open schollies that late in the game. The risk here is the 13th scholly and a player that probably wasn't going to play much. Concerning behavioral issues you can cut bait after 1 year on Harvey if you need to. The reward is a potential 4 year player and 3 year starter. The risk is you lose your 13th man off the bench or your 13th scholly.

Who's not going to take that deal every time??? The only risk here is NOT taking Harvey!

Well it appeared that we did force Hardnett off team to get Harvey. But I agree, hoping to grab a Harvey type player is exactly why you hold onto the 13th scholarship.

The risk is that Harvey as a Junior or Senior commits an infraction that you could let slide from another player, but can't let slide with Harvey due to his past. Now suddenly you are losing a star player you have given a bunch of playing time to develop and are relying on to play major minutes. Also, as we know, UC still holds a bit of the Thug-U reputation (without reason), if Harvey gets into more legal trouble, his past is something that can be used against us in the media/recruiting.

Just because I think Harvey is high risk, doesn't mean I think we shouldn't have taken him or think something will go wrong. By high risk I don't mean I think it's 50-50 he will get into trouble again either. I'd say he's a few percentage points more likely to get into more trouble than an average recruit. I expect him to have no problems and quickly develop into a star here.
 
Well it appeared that we did force Hardnett off team to get Harvey. But I agree, hoping to grab a Harvey type player is exactly why you hold onto the 13th scholarship.

The risk is that Harvey as a Junior or Senior commits an infraction that you could let slide from another player, but can't let slide with Harvey due to his past. Now suddenly you are losing a star player you have given a bunch of playing time to develop and are relying on to play major minutes. Also, as we know, UC still holds a bit of the Thug-U reputation (without reason), if Harvey gets into more legal trouble, his past is something that can be used against us in the media/recruiting.

Just because I think Harvey is high risk, doesn't mean I think we shouldn't have taken him or think something will go wrong. By high risk I don't mean I think it's 50-50 he will get into trouble again either. I'd say he's a few percentage points more likely to get into more trouble than an average recruit. I expect him to have no problems and quickly develop into a star here.

I understand what your point is. My personal opinion is you get the talented and likely impact player and reel them in. It's not easy to do so when the opportunity comes up go for it. There is heavy competition for them usually.

I am sure Harvey was vetted to the nth degree by the coaches and admin and they have a good feeling about it or else would have passed. Brannen also knew a lot more than we did about the Madsens and what the drawbacks and positives were. An educated decision was made and by most accounts Brannen is very cerebral and analytical. He saw the positives outweighing the negatives and made Gabe a top priority.

After watching Cronin go with only 11 scholarships filled for what seemed like several years in a row...I would have probably told him to go ahead and put Mason on the roster without Gabe in those years. It's another body and player to use in case of injury etc. When he did use 13 scholarships we ended up with players ranked in the 300's to fill it out which is where Mason is.

It's VERY tough filling out a roster (for a team like UC) with all high 3 star and 4 star guys...you have to get them when you can. When you are down to filling out spots 12 and 13 it won't be as easy to lure them because of perceived playing time.
 
By all accounts it sounds like the Madsens are hard working gym rats. I think Prince is in the same mold of players who may/will work dawn until dusk to become better players. Having guys like that on the roster are great examples for others about hard work and they will likely improve more year over year because of their dedication. I don't know if I expect Mason to break the starting lineup before he leaves but I certainly would not bet against it and I think at worst he becomes a valuable role player. He's not THAT far off in talent level and with a lot of dedication and long gym hours...I can see him having an impact at some point.

Some players will do only as much as is required. Give me the guys who are willing to go the extra mile. Kilpatrick worked his tail off to get where he wanted to go. Don't underestimate the internal drive of a player.
 
It was hard enough for Brannen to fill out the 2019 class on late notice and to also get the 2020 class started with little time to build relationships. But he did end the 2019 recruiting with Cumberland and Harvey and got things started for 2020 with Saunders. That is a home run IMO given the timing factors in play!

Now you look at 2020 kids who you still haven't had a long time to build relationships with. You get Leal and Galloway on campus but they were likely already sold on another school. You look at Scrubb and think there are way too many variables to put all your eggs in that basket.

So you go hard after your next biggest target. Gabe. You make the play you feel is either necessary to get him or likely to get him. That includes Mason. So what. You aren't playing 13 roster guys anyway and Mason is not a walk on. If he can play mid major ball he can fill a role here too if we need him.

2021 CJB will have had time to build those relationships but in 2020 you still have to find creative ways to get high quality targets since other teams may have been recruiting these kids for years. Let's get Traynor and or Eason. Then we have 1 scholly remaining depending on the portal after the season. We need one more big assuming we can get one of those two. You find a spot for SCrubb if he ends up being available but I'm not holding a spot specifically for him with all the variables in play for him. He would be more of a bonus in line with the kind Harvey was.
 
Brannen has done a fabulous job. Keep in mind he had to "recruit" the returning players, notably Jarron. He has filled out the 2019 class nicely with balance toward 2020.

How many scholarships are open for 2020? They are still recruiting Scrubb (6' 6" SG, Traynor (6' 7" PF), Eason (6' 8" PF) and possibly will find a grad transfer to help balance the classes.
 
Brannen has done a fabulous job. Keep in mind he had to "recruit" the returning players, notably Jarron. He has filled out the 2019 class nicely with balance toward 2020.

How many scholarships are open for 2020? They are still recruiting Scrubb (6' 6" SG, Traynor (6' 7" PF), Eason (6' 8" PF) and possibly will find a grad transfer to help balance the classes.

There are 2 spots left open. At least one big and likely 2. The availability of Scrubb would be the only thing likely to throw a loop in those plans IMO. And that could change if a player of ours enters the portal after the year.

If we can get either Eason or Traynor I think we are in a good spot to wait until spring for the last scholly. Maybe a grad transfer big or see what happens with Scrubb or both if we have any player in the portal.
 
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