Well it appeared that we did force Hardnett off team to get Harvey. But I agree, hoping to grab a Harvey type player is exactly why you hold onto the 13th scholarship.
The risk is that Harvey as a Junior or Senior commits an infraction that you could let slide from another player, but can't let slide with Harvey due to his past. Now suddenly you are losing a star player you have given a bunch of playing time to develop and are relying on to play major minutes. Also, as we know, UC still holds a bit of the Thug-U reputation (without reason), if Harvey gets into more legal trouble, his past is something that can be used against us in the media/recruiting.
Just because I think Harvey is high risk, doesn't mean I think we shouldn't have taken him or think something will go wrong. By high risk I don't mean I think it's 50-50 he will get into trouble again either. I'd say he's a few percentage points more likely to get into more trouble than an average recruit. I expect him to have no problems and quickly develop into a star here.
Like many others, you resort to calling things stupid and attacking me because your arguments hold no weight. I started posting more on this forum to stay away from this type of angry, defensive, substance-less post.
In terms of their recruitment, Harvey and Gabe each had something that prevented a number of schools from recruiting them (Harvey - legal issues, Gabe - only wanted to play with schools that also recruited his twin). These are things that quite a few schools saw and made them pass. Gabe is initially a higher risk because we had to spend a scholarship on Mason, who plays a position we don't need depth at (and I don't think anyone thinks we would have recruited Mason without Gabe).
Most players choose their favorite school and their decision to stay is only up to themselves. We don't know how much Mason would influence Gabe's decision. But there is the possibility that if Mason leaves due to lack of playing time, Gabe would also leave. That makes the risk of Gabe leaving higher than if we just had Gabe.
As for Harvey, you think Harvey is no higher risk? Than why do you think so many schools passed on him? Even Brannen said that Harvey understands he can't make another mistake.
Where did I saw I don't like Harvey? I said I don't mind taking risks here and there. I'm happy with Harvey. I can be happy with him, while still acknowledging we got him because we were willing to gamble a little. Gabe I think looks great, but is only a 160 rated recruits, we should be able to get recruits in the 150-200 range without any strings attached.
What name did I call you? I said your post was stupid, and that is 100% true and I provided support for it. And others are pointing it out on other boards. Notice a trend? p.s., it's you.
The Madsen twins publicly acknowledged that they wanted to be recruited individually and weren't a package deal. Your argument that Gabe only wanted to play with schools that also recruited his twin is b.s., and I'm calling you out on it. It's honestly quite funny reading your posts. Gabe is a high risk because because his brother may leave? And this after you say "We don't know how much Mason would influence Gabe's decision" - so we have no clue, yet it's still a high risk? Yea, and Jacob Evans was high risk because he could have gotten home sick going to a school so far away.
Wow, there is a possibility one would leave? Unheard of. I guess there is no possibility of other players leaving. Cronin should not have recruited Brooks because there was a possibility he would leave if there was a coaching change.
Was Harvey a risk? Perhaps. But what is the risk? He does something and gets kicked off the team? His infraction was pretty minor. You could argue it's a risk not taking a player of his talent. It wasn't like he pushed his girlfriend down the stairs. So let me ask you again since you conveniently ignored it: what was your position on taking Lance Stephenson, Alvin Mitchel, Ellis (twice - once after he had already been kicked off the team), Lawrence, and Jason Henry?
Maybe you didn't really follow the recruiting. Makes sense as most of the guys on the other board like to get emotionally worked up, but don't really follow recruiting closely. The Madsen's said they wanted to be recruited individually, but they also made it clear that they wanted to be a package deal. The risk with Gabe is that Mason the mid-major level player that he looks like and we've basically used two scholarships on one player. Do you (or anyone) think Mason would be here if Gabe went elsewhere?
Any player could leave for a variety of reasons. But no other recruit besides Gabe is going to leave because their brother is unhappy here. It is one more factor that could influence Gabe departing, that a normal recruit does not have, thus higher risk.
Can you not read? I said I'm happy with Harvey here and fine with taking a risk here and there. That applies to past players as well. As long as we don't take too many risks and are getting players who wouldn't normally come here is a good strategy.
This is not a two scholly for one player deal. That concept is utterly ridiculous!
Unless you don't count the scholarships Cronin offered to guys ranked in the 300-400's. This whole concept of Mason basically being worth as much as an empty roster spot is outrageous, humiliating and not even close to accurate.
Anyone who is perpetuating this as a two for 1 deal is being completely disingenuous in order to make their point seem stronger.
This is not a two scholly for one player deal. That concept is utterly ridiculous!
Unless you don't count the scholarships Cronin offered to guys ranked in the 300-400's. This whole concept of Mason basically being worth as much as an empty roster spot is outrageous, humiliating and not even close to accurate.
Anyone who is perpetuating this as a two for 1 deal is being completely disingenuous in order to make their point seem stronger.
Does anyone think we would have recruited Mason if not for Gabe?
Does anyone think we needed another young PG/SG? In 2020 we already have MAW (PG/SG), Saunders (PG), Harvey (PG/SG) and Gabe (SG/SF) as freshmen/sophomores. Where will Mason find minutes in the next few years?
Cronin generally offered big men 300-400 rated bigs (harder to get) and at positions where we didn't already have a ton of depth. If Mason was 6'8"+ I'd have no problem with him at his rating.
But the low rating, plus him playing a position where we already have plenty of young depth, screams that he's only here because of Gabe.
As for those saying it's just the 13th scholarship. It is, but now we have locked it in. Our last 2 scholarships pretty much need to be used on a pair of PF/C's for 2020 (unless Davenport is going to be the backup PF). The 13th scholarship could have been saved to be used on a grad transfer depending on our needs, such as one of the young likely 2020 starters (Prince at PF and MAW at PG) not developing quickly enough or getting injured. Instead we used it on a 300+ rated guy, who is likely going to be the third string PG for the next 3 years.
Does anyone think we would have recruited Mason if not for Gabe?
Does anyone think we needed another young PG/SG? In 2020 we already have MAW (PG/SG), Saunders (PG), Harvey (PG/SG) and Gabe (SG/SF) as freshmen/sophomores. Where will Mason find minutes in the next few years?
Cronin generally offered big men 300-400 rated bigs (harder to get) and at positions where we didn't already have a ton of depth. If Mason was 6'8"+ I'd have no problem with him at his rating.
But the low rating, plus him playing a position where we already have plenty of young depth, screams that he's only here because of Gabe.
As for those saying it's just the 13th scholarship. It is, but now we have locked it in. Our last 2 scholarships pretty much need to be used on a pair of PF/C's for 2020 (unless Davenport is going to be the backup PF). The 13th scholarship could have been saved to be used on a grad transfer depending on our needs, such as one of the young likely 2020 starters (Prince at PF and MAW at PG) not developing quickly enough or getting injured. Instead we used it on a 300+ rated guy, who is likely going to be the third string PG for the next 3 years.
I suspect Mason will become as good a point guard as several guys we've had starting at UC, including recently. It might take him a while, but that depends on how others develop too. He's going to fit into Brannen's system likely better as a shooter, so it might be a new-look Bearcats for us. He might actually turn out to be a good two guard outside decoy just because he could be a drive and dish guy.
I think people are calling out this discussion as very extreme, when it's not. To say a recruit is a risk isn't the same thing as saying they shouldn't have been recruited. It's acknowledging what might become a pitfall. No one said Brannen shouldn't have recruited Harvey or Gabe. We said they were players that carry risk, because they do. That's okay more often that not.
And yeah, you can push that to say all players do, but a storyline with those two guys rises up to the lead paragraph when talking about them, which is really all you need to know. It might be the end of the discussion, but not saying anything is just having blinders on.
It's not even a harsh criticism on Brannen to point it out, because I'm sure he would recognize it too. Cronin also needed to take risk guys like Stephenson, who brought such an odd media circus for college, but I'm guessing that it bothered him that it was the route he had to take.
And to those justifying Mason's spot by pointing out how many low-level recruits Cronin brought in...well I thought little of Cronin's recruiting in recent years and I'm guessing fans just learned to live with it. But to his credit he always seemed to develop enough upperclassmen to play his system of slow ball that he found ways to win games. But most of those lower recruits were largely forgettable. Sprinkle in some fortunate diamonds in the rough and there's UC in past 13 years. Successful, but frustrating all too often.
Excited to see if Mason can make use eat our words about counting him out.
Like many others, you resort to calling things stupid and attacking me because your arguments hold no weight. I started posting more on this forum to stay away from this type of angry, defensive, substance-less post.
In terms of their recruitment, Harvey and Gabe each had something that prevented a number of schools from recruiting them (Harvey - legal issues, Gabe - only wanted to play with schools that also recruited his twin). These are things that quite a few schools saw and made them pass. Gabe is initially a higher risk because we had to spend a scholarship on Mason, who plays a position we don't need depth at (and I don't think anyone thinks we would have recruited Mason without Gabe).
Most players choose their favorite school and their decision to stay is only up to themselves. We don't know how much Mason would influence Gabe's decision. But there is the possibility that if Mason leaves due to lack of playing time, Gabe would also leave. That makes the risk of Gabe leaving higher than if we just had Gabe.
As for Harvey, you think Harvey is no higher risk? Than why do you think so many schools passed on him? Even Brannen said that Harvey understands he can't make another mistake.
Where did I saw I don't like Harvey? I said I don't mind taking risks here and there. I'm happy with Harvey. I can be happy with him, while still acknowledging we got him because we were willing to gamble a little. Gabe I think looks great, but is only a 160 rated recruits, we should be able to get recruits in the 150-200 range without any strings attached.
Thats not even true though.
That's interesting. Rivals and 247 don't show offers for Mason from XU. I'll take your word for it. They have a number of highly ranked guards in the que, so that would have been pretty challenging for him. They do need wings and shooting.
One thing I'm certain of...the Madsen parents are happy they don't have to try to travel to separate schools to watch games. Even if it was just a handful, that would be a lot of time and money for travel. Even better, they don't have to pay for two kids' tuition!
Well, I'm really hoping UC can get that PF from Bardstown, KY. Really need someone his size coming up. I think some rules changes will be making the number of grad transfers go down. Transfer bigs will be a huge premium.
https://n.rivals.com/news/mason-madsen
As far as JJ Traynor (Bardstown). its reported he will redshirt. He and his family want to redshirt wherever he goes. So with that said Prince and Diarra really have to pan out this year or maybe someone like Tari Eason may be a better fit to come in and play right away(if he is capable of playing big minutes)