Pressing

[david aka the TYZ]

I don't think we should abandon the press. The press does two things besides create turnovers. One it wears your opponents down for the long term and they lose their legs late in games and in a close game that could be the difference. The NC State game comes to mind. The second thing it can do is make your opponent use it's energy on offense which means they catch their breath on defense, which can help our suspect offense a little bit (conversely, I've always wondered if one of the reasons we struggle shooting is because we exert so much energy on defense). This of course assumes we are conditioned better than our opponents and that we have the depth, which right now is becoming a concern. I think we'll see games where Mick doesn't press as much, some due to depth concerns and some due to playing 3 games in 7 days or 4 games in 10 days or something to save energy, but this team's strategy is to press and I don't think he'll turn from it unless it isn't working or it might not be an effective strategy against the team we're playing.

 

[Gotcha23]

This is probably the dumbest post I've seen on what was an otherwise good discussion. Leave the discussion boards to the people who are actually capable of having a discussion.

What did you find dumb about that comment? He's right. The press has won us games recently so why would we even consider cutting back on it? With the athleticism on this club, Mick would be crazy to abandon the press.

 

[Bearcat04]

I'm all for pressing. Even if it doesn't create a turnover it still takes time off of the shot clock to find a good shot against our outstanding half-court defense. It also gives our opponents something else to prepare for. Based on the comments from Houston after the game it sounded like they were almost psyched out by the pressure in the 1st half. They were throwing the ball all over the court. I'm in favor of anything that can potentially give us a few easy buckets a game, so press on.

 

[L-T]

my main disagreement with your post yesterday was your assertion that his 3's shot us out of games against X and NM.That is not accurate. My advice and I'm certainly not a expert is to ignore the ridiculous post and enjoy the good ones. I didn't always take my own advice but since I have adopted this new approach I enjoy the site much more.

My support of MC has nothing to do with his personal life. Don't know him. I think he is a very good young coach that has worked under 2 HOF's. He is elevating the program and as his reputation grows so will his clout in the recruiting circles.I'm not willing at this time to start over with another low budget under the radar up and comer and start the process all over again. That's my opinion.His teams play hard and he gets the most out of their ability.

As for GG seems like a good kid just doesn't perform as well as many would like. From my perspective if I criticize a kid for his play Its not personal it's a fans point of view. I think all of us should remember when evaluating a players performance that for me even in my younger days he is still light years more talented then I ever was.

Well, as others have pointed out, recruits and their families are watching these sites, so if questioning the coach causes us to lose recruits (many have said this), wouldn't questioning our players be even more offensive to a recruit considering coming to our school? If we have to tone down our complaints of Mick, we surely shouldn't be saying anything negative about any players. Do I believe all of this? Absolutely not. But, if we need to tone down the opinions on the coach, the same should hold true for the players. No matter if they are just opinions or not ( by the way, anything negative about Mick is also just a fan's opinion), we could be losing recruits because of calls for Troy to replace GG and pointing out GG and Shaq's flaws. On here, pointing out the coach's shortcomings is somehow terrible, while discussing our players flaws is fair game. It's all pretty funny.

 

[anbuc88]

Well, as others have pointed out, recruits and their families are watching these sites, so if questioning the coach causes us to lose recruits (many have said this), wouldn't questioning our players be even more offensive to a recruit considering coming to our school? If we have to tone down our complaints of Mick, we surely shouldn't be saying anything negative about any players. Do I believe all of this? Absolutely not. But, if we need to tone down the opinions on the coach, the same should hold true for the players. No matter if they are just opinions or not ( by the way, anything negative about Mick is also just a fan's opinion), we could be losing recruits because of calls for Troy to replace GG and pointing out GG and Shaq's flaws. On here, pointing out the coach's shortcomings is somehow terrible, while discussing our players flaws is fair game. It's all pretty funny.

There is a difference between pointing out a coach's shortcomings versus calling for him to be fired after a loss. Pretty funny that you can't figure that out. Or just pretty sad.

 

[L-T]

There is a difference between pointing out a coach's shortcomings versus calling for him to be fired after a loss. Pretty funny that you can't figure that out. Or just pretty sad.

You mean the way the whole city of Cincinnati is calling for Marvin to be fired after Sunday's loss, or for that matter, all season long after losses. The same was true for Dusty. And these are two coaches that have actually won some division championships and made the postseason consistenty. I guess the city of Cincinnati in general needs to figure out that difference, because it's a pretty common occurence in this town. Why exclude Mick?

But this wasn't about Mick. This is about all these recruits and families viewing this forum and reading about young student athlete's shortcomings and flaws. The negative talk about these players needs to stop. How many recruits per day are we losing as a result?

 

[Robert]

I've got no problem with the press. According to teamrankings.com, we are 6th in points per game allowed, 5th in defensive efficiency, and 3rd in field goal defense. Why fix something that isn't broken? The defense has been phenomenal.

Changing the subject, since we're on defense, I thought the switch to a zone with Dave in the middle last night was neat. Not something we'll do often, but I thought we were able to execute it well enough to keep it as a change-of-pace option.

 

[Bearcat04]

Changing the subject, since we're on defense, I thought the switch to a zone with Dave in the middle last night was neat. Not something we'll do often, but I thought we were able to execute it well enough to keep it as a change-of-pace option.

Agreed. In the past we've used Big Dave in the base defense only to see him get exposed in the pick-and-roll. In the zone he's free to be a rim protector and he does that very well. With the length and athleticism of this team I think they should mix in a zone every now and then, assuming they work on defensive rebounding. I'm guessing we'll see a lot more of this look while Lawrence is out. More often than not Big Dave delivers when he's called upon to play extended minutes. Good for him.

 

[anbuc88]

You mean the way the whole city of Cincinnati is calling for Marvin to be fired after Sunday's loss, or for that matter, all season long after losses. The same was true for Dusty. And these are two coaches that have actually won some division championships and made the postseason consistenty. I guess the city of Cincinnati in general needs to figure out that difference, because it's a pretty common occurence in this town. Why exclude Mick?

But this wasn't about Mick. This is about all these recruits and families viewing this forum and reading about young student athlete's shortcomings and flaws. The negative talk about these players needs to stop. How many recruits per day are we losing as a result?

Wow. Really? LMAO. I guess being a Longtimer fan means you have a pulse on not only the UC fan base, but also the Bengals and Reds fanbase. Doesn't everyone remember when the entire city of Cincinnati wanted Marvin Lewis fired after they lost to Baltimore or Miami in the regular season. Longtimer does. Or how about when everyone in the city of Cincinnati wanted Dusty Baker fired after a regular seaon loss. That was over 70 times this that the entire city of Cincinnati wanted him fired. Of course there is no difference between professional and college sports. Just like the Bengals, UC has a salary cap and revenue sharing. Thats's why there should be no excuse for UC not to consistently do as well as Duke or Kansas or UK in basketball, or Alabama or FSU or O$U in football. Every one knows this. Plus, some experts had the Bengals winning the Super Bowl and the Reds in the World Series this year based on talent, thus an early exit in the playoffs has both fanbases up in arms. No different for the Bearcats. There are experts who picked them to win the National chamionship this year, aren't there? We should all be up in arms after a regular season loss, and call for the coach to be fired. That's what all rational fans would do, wouldn't they? And what about those experts who consistently praise Cronin for the exceptional job that he has done resurrecting the program. They coundn't hold a candle to a Longtimer fan such as this. They just don't have all of his experience. Unlike those jokers, Longtimer understands that there is no difference between professional and college sports. They should be treated exactly the same. So when the entire city of Cincinnati calls Andy Dalton names and wants to run him out of town after he throws the team out of games with interceptions, same should go for SK. Get up on your feet at FTA and boo, call him names, and tell him he sucks when he shoots UC out of games as he did with New Mexico and Xavier. That's how the entire city of Cincinanati treats Andy Dalton, so why not SK?

BTW, this thread wasn't about Mick or recruits or their families. It was whether they should continue to press. So stay on topic, rather than trying to make everthing about how YOU have been persecuted, lambasted, or vilified for your views.

 

[TheLongHaul]

groundhog day.

 

[anbuc88]

groundhog day.

You are correct. I tell myself I will stop reponding to him, but just can't help it.

 

[UCBearcats]

You are correct. I tell myself I will stop reponding to him, but just can't help it.

You sir are being ridiculous. You came into this thread and directed the first exchange between you and LT and when he responded to your shot you patronized him by telling him to stay on topic.

Not everyone is going to agree with you man, get over it. It's almost like you're personally offended that there are people out there who don't share the same viewpoint of Mick Cronin that you do.

 

[anbuc88]

You are wrong. He brought in recruits and their families into this thread. That was directed at me, as I have mentioned this in previous posts. I responded to that. Try and keep up, sir.

 

[UCBearcats]

You are wrong. He brought in recruits and their families into this thread. That was directed at me, as I have mentioned this in previous posts. I responded to that. Try and keep up, sir.

I didn't realize there was a larger overlapping story arc to this saga, my fault.

So......back to pressing.........as the poster noted when he wrote the thread, any thoughts on pressing??

 

[JackBauer151]

I think you need to press teams that you can press. With the speed of the guards that Memphis had it made no sense. They would just run by us and get to the rim. Their weakness was outside shooting. Cut of the lanes and pack it in to make them shoot 3's. Worked to almost perfection and we ran away with the game. It has two major benefits. It creates turnovers and it wears teams down. When you are tired and only have 15 seconds on the shot clock every time down the floor it takes a mental and physical toll. Need depth to do this for 40 minutes. Up until now we have had that. I dont know about that now with Lawrence and GG in question. Press when it makes sense. Just have to live with giving up some easy baskets. It's a bigger picture strategy rather than play by play.

 

[UCBearcats]

I think you need to press teams that you can press. With the speed of the guards that Memphis had it made no sense. They would just run by us and get to the rim. Their weakness was outside shooting. Cut of the lanes and pack it in to make them shoot 3's. Worked to almost perfection and we ran away with the game. It has two major benefits. It creates turnovers and it wears teams down. When you are tired and only have 15 seconds on the shot clock every time down the floor it takes a mental and physical toll. Need depth to do this for 40 minutes. Up until now we have had that. I dont know about that now with Lawrence and GG in question. Press when it makes sense. Just have to live with giving up some easy baskets. It's a bigger picture strategy rather than play by play.

Agreed, if there is one area that I can't really question Mick on it's his defensive strategy. You almost always know that a UC team under Mick is going to play tough defense and I trust that Mick knows the right time and place to employ his press. I think he'll do exactly what you just described Jack, he'll use it when he feels like it's the best fit for his strategy.

 

[L-T]

Wow. Really? LMAO. I guess being a Longtimer fan means you have a pulse on not only the UC fan base, but also the Bengals and Reds fanbase. Doesn't everyone remember when the entire city of Cincinnati wanted Marvin Lewis fired after they lost to Baltimore or Miami in the regular season. Longtimer does. Or how about when everyone in the city of Cincinnati wanted Dusty Baker fired after a regular seaon loss. That was over 70 times this that the entire city of Cincinnati wanted him fired. Of course there is no difference between professional and college sports. Just like the Bengals, UC has a salary cap and revenue sharing. Thats's why there should be no excuse for UC not to consistently do as well as Duke or Kansas or UK in basketball, or Alabama or FSU or O$U in football. Every one knows this. Plus, some experts had the Bengals winning the Super Bowl and the Reds in the World Series this year based on talent, thus an early exit in the playoffs has both fanbases up in arms. No different for the Bearcats. There are experts who picked them to win the National chamionship this year, aren't there? We should all be up in arms after a regular season loss, and call for the coach to be fired. That's what all rational fans would do, wouldn't they? And what about those experts who consistently praise Cronin for the exceptional job that he has done resurrecting the program. They coundn't hold a candle to a Longtimer fan such as this. They just don't have all of his experience. Unlike those jokers, Longtimer understands that there is no difference between professional and college sports. They should be treated exactly the same. So when the entire city of Cincinnati calls Andy Dalton names and wants to run him out of town after he throws the team out of games with interceptions, same should go for SK. Get up on your feet at FTA and boo, call him names, and tell him he sucks when he shoots UC out of games as he did with New Mexico and Xavier. That's how the entire city of Cincinanati treats Andy Dalton, so why not SK?

BTW, this thread wasn't about Mick or recruits or their families. It was whether they should continue to press. So stay on topic, rather than trying to make everthing about how YOU have been persecuted, lambasted, or vilified for your views.

Lol! I guess he supports critiquing our players, but not Mick. Hard to tell from all this minutia.

As to pressing, I coached basketball for over 25 years and utilized the press for 95% of that time. I love pressing the other team. It may not always force a turnover, but the secondary benefit is that it speeds up the tempo and often gets teams to hurry shots out of the context of their offense, and often the shots are not on balance. Obviously, as a coach, you have to know your opponent and be smart enough to shut the press down when the opponent is beating it. I was somewhat shocked when Mick never went to it much in the 1st half against New Mexico, even though they were a slower team with very little depth. Then, out of the blue, he throws it on in the 2nd half and we immediately get right back into the game.

The problem is, our depth is suddenly a little thin, so he will have to pick his spots until that improves. Bottom line, we have very good defensive players and a lot of athleticism on the back end of the press, so why not utilize it extensively.

 

[JackBauer151]

Lol! I guess he supports critiquing our players, but not Mick. Hard to tell from all this minutia.

As to pressing, I coached basketball for over 25 years and utilized the press for 95% of that time. I love pressing the other team. It may not always force a turnover, but the secondary benefit is that it speeds up the tempo and often gets teams to hurry shots out of the context of their offense, and often the shots are not on balance. Obviously, as a coach, you have to know your opponent and be smart enough to shut the press down when the opponent is beating it. I was somewhat shocked when Mick never went to it much in the 1st half against New Mexico, even though they were a slower team with very little depth. Then, out of the blue, he throws it on in the 2nd half and we immediately get right back into the game.

The problem is, our depth is suddenly a little thin, so he will have to pick his spots until that improves. Bottom line, we have very good defensive players and a lot of athleticism on the back end of the press, so why not utilize it extensively.

Also remember you have to score to press. In the first half we did not score at NM. We had like 10 pts total with 8 minutes to go in the first half.

 

[anbuc88]

Also remember you have to score to press. In the first half we did not score at NM. We had like 10 pts total with 8 minutes to go in the first half.

I think Cronin wanted to press at UNM, but as you said, the just didn't score. Same thing in the second half at Houston. The press was very effective in the first half, but they couldn't score in the 2nd half to set it up. Also having to play Big Dave makes the press less effective, and they were forced to use him due to foul trouble.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I think L_T's recollection of some of the games may be a bit foggy. He had SK shooting us out of contention in the X game by taking to many threes when in fact he only took 3. Seems his memory is a little more oldtimer and not so much longtimer on occasion. LMAO!!!!!