Pressing

[CaptDale]

I think Cronin wanted to press at UNM, but as you said, the just didn't score. Same thing in the second half at Houston. The press was very effective in the first half, but they couldn't score in the 2nd half to set it up. Also having to play Big Dave makes the press less effective, and they were forced to use him due to foul trouble.

NM is a game of the past. We have grown/improved, but they still have their Bigs. I'd like to meet them again. Maybe a zone would work vs them?

 

[TheLongHaul]

Also remember you have to score to press. In the first half we did not score at NM. We had like 10 pts total with 8 minutes to go in the first half.

Not true, you don't have to score to press. It helps, but there are plenty of other ways to press if you really want to.

 

[L-T]

I think L_T's recollection of some of the games may be a bit foggy. He had SK shooting us out of contention in the X game by taking to many threes when in fact he only took 3. Seems his memory is a little more oldtimer and not so much longtimer on occasion. LMAO!!!!!

Waite, if your going to LYAO at your own funny post, then at least try to post accurately. It just doesn't come across the same when you're LYAO at an un-truth. So, I guess I have to respond by saying that Waite's recollection of my posts might be a bit foggy. But that happens with the oldtimer's disease he accused me of having. Shooting us out of the Xavier game was your own words, not mine. In my post on 11/7/14 in the Memphis thread at 11:41 AM, I specifically said he shot us out of the NM game, and then I posted the stats from the game to prove my point. I went on to say in the next sentence that in the X game, he did not shoot good, but he did get to the line a lot and scored 17 points, but he also only had 2 assists with 4 turnovers. Never was there a mention of him shooting us out of the X game, plus I acknowledged that he had 17 points....again, supporting my statement with actual facts. In your response to that post, you said...."If you think we lost the X and New Mexico game because SK shot us out of the games, you are mistaken". So again, shooting us out of the X game was your words, not mine, so the fact that he only took 3 threes is interesting data, but irrelevent to what I actually said.

It's pretty funny how this site turns my posts around to try to make their own funny points and to take shots at me, but the accuracy rate of the claims are very low. BDcats did the same thing two days ago and I'm still waiting for his apology, but I still haven't seen it. Anyway, thanks for the entertaining post Waite and I'm certainly glad you got a good laugh out of it.

 

[L-T]

Not true, you don't have to score to press. It helps, but there are plenty of other ways to press if you really want to.

Agree totally. It might be a little more effective if you have time to set up after a made shot, but I never called a press off after a missed shot. Good point.

 

[JackBauer151]

Agree totally. It might be a little more effective if you have time to set up after a made shot, but I never called a press off after a missed shot. Good point.

It's not about calling it off its getting in the right spot, finding the right man, getting back if they are pushing the basketball. It's not impossible but scoring to set up the press is a huge factor in being able to run it effectively.

 

[anbuc88]

Agree totally. It might be a little more effective if you have time to set up after a made shot, but I never called a press off after a missed shot. Good point.

At the college level there are few if any teams that press after missed shots. Players just aren't in position to effectively institute a press and the opposition is usually too well schooled to try and do so. They may trap in the half court setting to speed the game up and get turnovers, but trying to press after missed shots is not effective at this level.

 

[TheLongHaul]

At the college level there are few if any teams that press after missed shots. Players just aren't in position to effectively institute a press and the opposition is usually too well schooled to try and do so. They may trap in the half court setting to speed the game up and get turnovers, but trying to press after missed shots is not effective at this level.

The offense isn't in position either. And I've pointed out a little a while ago that when you factor in turnovers, FT's, out of bounds, etc, there are still a lot of chances to press if you so desire to.

 

[anbuc88]

The offense isn't in position either. And I've pointed out a little a while ago that when you factor in turnovers, FT's, out of bounds, etc, there are still a lot of chances to press if you so desire to.

I would agree that any time the ball is out of bounds you can set up the press. But it is difficult in a live ball setting to do so. The offense may not be in position, but it is much more difficult for defense to be in the right spots to have an effective press.

 

[UCBearcats]

I would agree that any time the ball is out of bounds you can set up the press. But it is difficult in a live ball setting to do so. The offense may not be in position, but it is much more difficult for defense to be in the right spots to have an effective press.

Then hopefully the team continues to play the way it has been since the Xavier loss. No matter how much we may talk about the defense and the offense as separate things there's not doubt that you need both and they both feed off of each other.

Lately this team has moved well in the half court on offense and played strong basketball in the post thanks to the much improved play of JJ.

I think if anything what we've seen from this recent stretch of play is that offense is very important. You can win games in the 40's and 50's but it's much easier to play the game when the score is in the 60's and 70's. I'd rather watch us win 68-64 than 52-48.

 

[JackBauer151]

Then hopefully the team continues to play the way it has been since the Xavier loss. No matter how much we may talk about the defense and the offense as separate things there's not doubt that you need both and they both feed off of each other.

Lately this team has moved well in the half court on offense and played strong basketball in the post thanks to the much improved play of JJ.

I think if anything what we've seen from this recent stretch of play is that offense is very important. You can win games in the 40's and 50's but it's much easier to play the game when the score is in the 60's and 70's. I'd rather watch us win 68-64 than 52-48.

One of the things I was happy to see in the Houston game was when they packed it in against JJ he was whipping it opposite to the open shooter. Obviously we need to knock those shots down for it to be effective but it's so easy to see the benefits of having an inside out game. We start hitting shots then they have to back off JJ and he can go to work. Hope this trend continues in the right direction.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

One of the things I was happy to see in the Houston game was when they packed it in against JJ he was whipping it opposite to the open shooter. Obviously we need to knock those shots down for it to be effective but it's so easy to see the benefits of having an inside out game. We start hitting shots then they have to back off JJ and he can go to work. Hope this trend continues in the right direction.

The #1 thing that needs to happen for this trend to continue is for Jackson to stay on the floor. No more illegal screen, reaching fouls.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Waite, if your going to LYAO at your own funny post, then at least try to post accurately. It just doesn't come across the same when you're LYAO at an un-truth. So, I guess I have to respond by saying that Waite's recollection of my posts might be a bit foggy. But that happens with the oldtimer's disease he accused me of having. Shooting us out of the Xavier game was your own words, not mine. In my post on 11/7/14 in the Memphis thread at 11:41 AM, I specifically said he shot us out of the NM game, and then I posted the stats from the game to prove my point. I went on to say in the next sentence that in the X game, he did not shoot good, but he did get to the line a lot and scored 17 points, but he also only had 2 assists with 4 turnovers. Never was there a mention of him shooting us out of the X game, plus I acknowledged that he had 17 points....again, supporting my statement with actual facts. In your response to that post, you said...."If you think we lost the X and New Mexico game because SK shot us out of the games, you are mistaken". So again, shooting us out of the X game was your words, not mine, so the fact that he only took 3 threes is interesting data, but irrelevent to what I actually said.

It's pretty funny how this site turns my posts around to try to make their own funny points and to take shots at me, but the accuracy rate of the claims are very low. BDcats did the same thing two days ago and I'm still waiting for his apology, but I still haven't seen it. Anyway, thanks for the entertaining post Waite and I'm certainly glad you got a good laugh out of it.

L_T lighten up a tad. I was honestly trying to make a joke that I thought you would find the humor in. You know referencing the fact we are getting a little long in the tooth. Oh and for the record your initial post was he shoots us out of GAMES by continuing to shoot threes. . My reply was based on the only two games we lost X and NM. What other games was I to think he could have shot us out of? Now aren't we a couple of stuborn old men.

Here was your initial post I responed to.
The suspect D is more of a career observation. He is much better at the end of his career simply because he is a little quicker. There was a time when he wasn't nearly as good. It's not like he is a great shooter that occasionally goes into slumps. Last season was his worst shooting year of his career. He shot 39.8% from the field and 30.8% from 3 pt. I wouldn't even call that average....and he had help around him with Cash and Parker. Yes, great shooters should keep on shooting. He is far from a great shooter and at times he continues to shoot as if he is and he shoots us out of games.

I replied we only lost two ganes this year one being X and he only took 3 threes. In the NM game we were destroyed by their post players not his 3 pt shooting. his 3 pt shooting hasn't been the reason for either loss. That was my point. Now your saying I turned the facts around

 

[Not Guilty]

Can anyone name a team that presses off a missed shot?

 

[anbuc88]

Can anyone name a team that presses off a missed shot?

There's the team L-T used to coach for 25 years for 1.

 

[L-T]

There's the team L-T used to coach for 25 years for 1.

Actually, that's 25 different teams.

 

[L-T]

L_T lighten up a tad. I was honestly trying to make a joke that I thought you would find the humor in. You know referencing the fact we are getting a little long in the tooth. Oh and for the record your initial post was he shoots us out of GAMES by continuing to shoot threes. . My reply was based on the only two games we lost X and NM. What other games was I to think he could have shot us out of? Now aren't we a couple of stuborn old men.

Here was your initial post I responed to.
The suspect D is more of a career observation. He is much better at the end of his career simply because he is a little quicker. There was a time when he wasn't nearly as good. It's not like he is a great shooter that occasionally goes into slumps. Last season was his worst shooting year of his career. He shot 39.8% from the field and 30.8% from 3 pt. I wouldn't even call that average....and he had help around him with Cash and Parker. Yes, great shooters should keep on shooting. He is far from a great shooter and at times he continues to shoot as if he is and he shoots us out of games.

I replied we only lost two ganes this year one being X and he only took 3 threes. In the NM game we were destroyed by their post players not his 3 pt shooting. his 3 pt shooting hasn't been the reason for either loss. That was my point. Now your saying I turned the facts around

Well, as you can see, I was referencing last year and "career" in my original post, and then pointing out the New Mexico game as an example this year. I'm sorry. It's hard to come up with good examples before January with Mick. He doesn't venture very far away from the USC Upstates and North Idaho Downrivers in his OOC scheduling, so we always enter January virtually undefeated. SK can go 1-8 from three in those games and we still win by 20 to 50 points. When he does it against a decent team and we lose, it is quite often one of the major reasons we lost.

To suggest in a 9-point loss that there was some other reason why we lost other than our senior leader and captain missing 73% of his shots and 86% of his threes, well, there's always "additional" reasons for a loss that you can always find, but SKs performance has to be right at the top or very near it. The strength of their team is their post players. The strength of ours was our defense and SK plus JJ. JJ had 10 points, which probably was right on his average at that time. We couldn't employ our press and expose their weaknesses because we couldn't make shots. Who contributed to that the most? There is no doubt whatsoever who that was. You can bend it anyway you like to keep the argument going. The difference is, I use actual stats and you use beliefs. Bottom line, their strengths in that game were consistent with their strengths for the season. So, to win the game, our strengths had to beat their strengths. Unfortunately, the fact that we shot so poorly impacted our biggest strength, which is our defense and our press. So yes, their post players outplayed us, but it was because SK shot us out of our game to the point that we couldn't utilize the press and expose their suspect depth. and lack of quickness.

 

[Scheids21]

Add this to the list of threads I must try to remember not to click on...

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Well, as you can see, I was referencing last year and "career" in my original post, and then pointing out the New Mexico game as an example this year. I'm sorry. It's hard to come up with good examples before January with Mick. He doesn't venture very far away from the USC Upstates and North Idaho Downrivers in his OOC scheduling, so we always enter January virtually undefeated. SK can go 1-8 from three in those games and we still win by 20 to 50 points. When he does it against a decent team and we lose, it is quite often one of the major reasons we lost.

To suggest in a 9-point loss that there was some other reason why we lost other than our senior leader and captain missing 73% of his shots and 86% of his threes, well, there's always "additional" reasons for a loss that you can always find, but SKs performance has to be right at the top or very near it. The strength of their team is their post players. The strength of ours was our defense and SK plus JJ. JJ had 10 points, which probably was right on his average at that time. We couldn't employ our press and expose their weaknesses because we couldn't make shots. Who contributed to that the most? There is no doubt whatsoever who that was. You can bend it anyway you like to keep the argument going. The difference is, I use actual stats and you use beliefs. Bottom line, their strengths in that game were consistent with their strengths for the season. So, to win the game, our strengths had to beat their strengths. Unfortunately, the fact that we shot so poorly impacted our biggest strength, which is our defense and our press. So yes, their post players outplayed us, but it was because SK shot us out of our game to the point that we couldn't utilize the press and expose their suspect depth. and lack of quickness.

first off he was 1-7 from three not 1-8 secondly didn't you just post you didn't need to make shots to press.? He was our leading scorer in that game with 19 of the 53. He shot 18 times.

 

[BDcats]

Waite, if your going to LYAO at your own funny post, then at least try to post accurately. It just doesn't come across the same when you're LYAO at an un-truth. So, I guess I have to respond by saying that Waite's recollection of my posts might be a bit foggy. But that happens with the oldtimer's disease he accused me of having. Shooting us out of the Xavier game was your own words, not mine. In my post on 11/7/14 in the Memphis thread at 11:41 AM, I specifically said he shot us out of the NM game, and then I posted the stats from the game to prove my point. I went on to say in the next sentence that in the X game, he did not shoot good, but he did get to the line a lot and scored 17 points, but he also only had 2 assists with 4 turnovers. Never was there a mention of him shooting us out of the X game, plus I acknowledged that he had 17 points....again, supporting my statement with actual facts. In your response to that post, you said...."If you think we lost the X and New Mexico game because SK shot us out of the games, you are mistaken". So again, shooting us out of the X game was your words, not mine, so the fact that he only took 3 threes is interesting data, but irrelevent to what I actually said.

It's pretty funny how this site turns my posts around to try to make their own funny points and to take shots at me, but the accuracy rate of the claims are very low. BDcats did the same thing two days ago and I'm still waiting for his apology, but I still haven't seen it. Anyway, thanks for the entertaining post Waite and I'm certainly glad you got a good laugh out of it.

Keep waiting
Glad it's all about you
As others have said must score to press. I am sure in your 25 years of coaching rec league you knew that

 

[L-T]

first off he was 1-7 from three not 1-8 secondly didn't you just post you didn't need to make shots to press.? He was our leading scorer in that game with 19 of the 53. He shot 18 times.

We lost by 3-4 baskets. SK missed 13 shots by himself. Others on the team contributed too, but it's hard to point the finger anywhere other than SK when he shoots 14% from three and 27% overall. I don't even know why we are debating this.