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david aka the TYZ said:
I agree I didn't think it was a foul. Being in house, not one person there rooting for the home team saw a foul. After four replays I didn't see a foul. After watching the link provided I don't see a foul. Kj was not moving into the player and his hands were up. It's good defense. The player tried to adjust and lost his foot. Any contact that may have happened was incidental and moot since Kj was in position. There's contact on every play a player drives to the hoop, doesn't mean there's a foul. The defender has a right to a position on the floor the same as the player. What you can't do is move into the position or lean into the offensive player. Kj cut off his lane and had position and did not initiate contact. If you are driving and trip over a player that is not an automatic foul. The refs saw the guy fall and blew the whistle. After an insanely loud chorus of boos and looking up themselves and watching the replay (I saw one of them looking up) they knew they blew it. We did not have one call go against us in ot. It is a moot point since we won and I am incredibly happy we didn't lose after a controversial call.
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This is the last comment I'll make on it and then I'll just agree to disagree.

Never base anything off of what fans in an arena think. It's always a bad call if it goes against the home team.

KJ clipped his knee, watch it again. It makes no difference whether his hands were up or not. And it wasn't good defense. KJ was trailing him hence the reason he had to try to cut him off. There was no baseline help. Inadvertent contact doesn't work in that situation. Neither does the "defender has a right to a position on the floor". They have a right when they are in position and set or when the offensive player is out of control. Neither of those situations occurred here. KJ wasn't in position and cut of the guy by running in front of him and while doing so clipped his leg. If it was UC who got tripped we would have all been screaming for a foul. Again, that's all I'll say about it. I'm glad UC ended up winning after making yet another dumb foul at the end of the game.
 
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/101519/101519

"With three seconds left, Winston Shepard's drive to the left baseline ended in a flail that seemed due less to any contact than Shepard's own lack of control. But the officials whistled it, and Shepard made both free throws. Cincinnati coach Mick Cronin went ballistic all the way through his own team's final attempt. He had his reasons. That his team pulled it together so comprehensively in an overtime it probably didn't deserve to deal with was itself a testament to its toughness.

Defense, toughness -- those are the knowns. There were also some hints at the unknown. Coming into Wednesday, just two members of Cincinnati's rotation could be said to be playing efficient offensive basketball. One was freshman Gary Clark, who finished with 10 hard-earned points and five equally hard-earned rebounds. The second was Farad Cobb. Cobb, a junior, is the closest thing Cronin has to a 3-point specialist -- he's shot 37 3s this season (at a 35 percent clip) to just 17 attempts inside the arc. In the first half against San Diego State, he was 0-for-3 with zero points. In the second, he contributed all 12 of his points. His ball handling -- and one especially big shot down the stretch -- were major keys in overcoming one of the nation's least forgiving defenses."
 
One of the posters on the VCU board said that they saw Troy's mom and she said he was sick last night. I knew it.
 
jacobkdoyle said:
One of the posters on the VCU board said that they saw Troy's mom and she said he was sick last night. I knew it.
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You could tell he was sick when he went to the locker room early in the game and when he came out he was coughing a ton. He is from that area so I am not surprised that some VCU fans know his mom. I believe they also recruited Morman quite heavily, his aggression would make sense in their defense too...
 
Bearcatmatt said:
Not even close. I didn't even see contact.

Doesn't matter - big win. Now we need to build on this and get ready for VCU.
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TheLongHaul said:
This is the last comment I'll make on it and then I'll just agree to disagree.

Never base anything off of what fans in an arena think. It's always a bad call if it goes against the home team.

KJ clipped his knee, watch it again. It makes no difference whether his hands were up or not. And it wasn't good defense. KJ was trailing him hence the reason he had to try to cut him off. There was no baseline help. Inadvertent contact doesn't work in that situation. Neither does the "defender has a right to a position on the floor". They have a right when they are in position and set or when the offensive player is out of control. Neither of those situations occurred here. KJ wasn't in position and cut of the guy by running in front of him and while doing so clipped his leg. If it was UC who got tripped we would have all been screaming for a foul. Again, that's all I'll say about it. I'm glad UC ended up winning after making yet another dumb foul at the end of the game.
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I would say watch it again, but judging by your comments, you have watched it several times and just can't see it. BearcatMatt posted a screen shot of Shepard's left ankle rolled over, which is why he tripped. It was good defense because he didn't touch him and forced him to lose the ball.
 
damon flint's 3 party said:
I would say watch it again, but judging by your comments, you have watched it several times and just can't see it. BearcatMatt posted a screen shot of Shepard's left ankle rolled over, which is why he tripped. It was good defense because he didn't touch him and forced him to lose the ball.
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KJ is so good he can DEFENSIVELY break ankles.
 
I think the call with Johnson at the end of the game was correct. Why don't we get these type of refs (fair) for all of the games. These guys didn't care if the local fans liked the call or not. Take a look at the picture above. Rights or no rights to the position, if the defensive player made contact with the shooter while in the process of shooting, it's a foul. Look at the picture. Kevin's rear end is up against the shooters front torso. That is what I call contact and it would be enough to effect the shot and therefore is a foul. Simple enough.

With respect to the team and players, I loved the way the team played smart, hung in there and fought it out. As far as athletic talent, that seems to be all the go in the NCAA. Frankly, I'd rather have five flat footed guys that can't jump and play offense and defense intelligently, than an athletic guy that runs all over the court like crazy, gives you one wild slam dunk a week and shoots like a sixth grader (no arc and wild off balance shots) Thomas. He also rarely gives up the ball. When he gets the ball, it's all about him. He drives to the basket, throws up some crazy shots that usually don't go in and or turns the ball over. He rarely dishes to open players because he's not looking and pouts when he comes out. Moorman on the other hand is my type of player. I like his intensity. Cronin is putting him in often during defensive plays, but I think he has a lot of offer on offense as well. He understands how to beat these zones and penetrates the gaps very well. He is not a great shooter from 3 point areas but can make shots, but is most valuable through penetrating and passing or shooting.
 
The KJ foul is what it is. You don't see that foul called at other gym's. TC got crushed at Nebraska on the last shot and there was no call. After the 7 minute conference on the Louisville out of bounds call last year that Greg Anthony got involved in nothing surprises me anymore. If Troy made his FT's it would be a moot point. Johnson running in front of him I think made the ref more prone to blow his whistle. Would that have been a reviewable call?
 
bearcat8290 said:
I think the call with Johnson at the end of the game was correct. Why don't we get these type of refs (fair) for all of the games. These guys didn't care if the local fans liked the call or not. Take a look at the picture above. Rights or no rights to the position, if the defensive player made contact with the shooter while in the process of shooting, it's a foul. Look at the picture. Kevin's rear end is up against the shooters front torso. That is what I call contact and it would be enough to effect the shot and therefore is a foul. Simple enough.

With respect to the team and players, I loved the way the team played smart, hung in there and fought it out. As far as athletic talent, that seems to be all the go in the NCAA. Frankly, I'd rather have five flat footed guys that can't jump and play offense and defense intelligently, than an athletic guy that runs all over the court like crazy, gives you one wild slam dunk a week and shoots like a sixth grader (no arc and wild off balance shots) Thomas. He also rarely gives up the ball. When he gets the ball, it's all about him. He drives to the basket, throws up some crazy shots that usually don't go in and or turns the ball over. He rarely dishes to open players because he's not looking and pouts when he comes out. Moorman on the other hand is my type of player. I like his intensity. Cronin is putting him in often during defensive plays, but I think he has a lot of offer on offense as well. He understands how to beat these zones and penetrates the gaps very well. He is not a great shooter from 3 point areas but can make shots, but is most valuable through penetrating and passing or shooting.
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There were two times Wednesday where Morman had the ball on the break with open men around him and didn't give up the ball either time and didn't even look to. You could tell he wanted to throw down a dunk but ended up with TO's both times.
 
Guys...enough with the KJ foul. The ref called what he saw or thought he saw. It can be argued to be a good or bad call. Big deal...it's over...nobody is going to prove someone right or wrong here. Even if there was contact...it could be argued it was so light that it shouldn't be called...so proving there was contact isn't going to solve anything.

It may have been a foul but that doesn't mean it was a good call. It may not have been a foul but that doesn't mean the ref sucks...it happens at high speed and it looked like he fell because of KJ. Let's move on...a heated debate over this is nonsense
 
Bearcat_NTS said:
Cincinnati scored 1.08 PPP tonight and had an eFG of 50.9%. I wonder if we'll see twenty pages of praise for the offense tonight against an elite defense team. Interesting that some posters only come out of the woodwork after losses.
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NTS, you had nothing to worry about. The praisers came through for you. The thread is up to 32 pages in just about 32 hours following the end of the game. It took the Nebraska thread almost 40 hours to hit 32 pages proving once again that a win results in far more irrational praise than an ugly loss causes irrational skepticism.
 
Thanks for the welcome. I have watched Cincy's last two games and enjoy watching them play defense.

As you stated, I do see the resemblance to Louisville's defensive approach.
 
I have a question about the bigs fit in your offensive scheme. Obviously, you lost some key pieces from last year. Does Cronin prefer to have his offense flow through the wing positon or the front court (inside/out)?
 
ramfan said:
I have a question about the bigs fit in your offensive scheme. Obviously, you lost some key pieces from last year. Does Cronin prefer to have his offense flow through the wing positon or the front court (inside/out)?
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For the past few years the offense has been essentially a dribble drive because our best players were all guards. Last year we basically relied entirely on First Team All-American Sean Kilpatrick who averaged over 20 points a night. This year our best offensive players are in the front court (freshman Gary Clark, JUCO transfer Ellis) and Mick would prefer for the offense to be inside out, with a lot of big to big action. It hasn't developed that way yet because all four of our front court players are brand new in their first year of D-I basketball.
 
Patrick Bateman said:
After the 7 minute conference on the Louisville out of bounds call last year that Greg Anthony got involved in nothing surprises me anymore.
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New board rule: never, ever bring that Greg Anthony moneywad-in-the-face moment up again.
 
Patrick Bateman said:
There were two times Wednesday where Morman had the ball on the break with open men around him and didn't give up the ball either time and didn't even look to. You could tell he wanted to throw down a dunk but ended up with TO's both times.
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I love Mormans potential and his energy and his defense but I agree. When he gets the ball he's like that kid we've all played with that thinks he can do it all and won't pass the ball. I'm sure he will eventually learn to play team ball on offense.
 

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