State of the Program

[UCBearcats]

I saw on another thread where someone commented about how much money XU spends on their basketball program. I heard others say that we don't spend as much as them.

I've also heard many here say that we should be spending all this money to improve facilities and that the University hasn't given Mick the financial support his program has earned and deserves.

There's a lot of misinformation around here so I thought I'd do some quick research and cut through the crap.

I bet many of you would you be surprised to learn that UC spends more money on basketball than XU despite the fact that UC reported a $0 profit on basketball from the 7/1/14-6/30/15 fiscal reporting year.

In the fiscal reporting year of 7/1/14-6/30/15 Xavier University officially reported revenues of $12,100,195 from men's basketball compared to expenses of $5,518,383 for a total profit of $6,581,812.

In the same time the University of Cincinnati officially reported men's basketball revenues of $7,594,044 vs expenses of $7,594,044 for a net profit of $0.

My best guess would be that was some creative accounting done by UC's financial team to avoid showing that the program was actually losing money.

Just a little perspective for all of those who say that Mick hasn't been getting the things he deserves from our University. It's not like his program is making it easy for the University to want to throw any more money at it. Despite the fact that his program earned us $0 in the Q's 2/3-1/2 14 and 15 fiscal year he is the 22nd highest paid coach in men's basketball according to the most up to date reporting and we're set to move ahead with a $90 million renovation of 5/3rd.

 

[UCBearcats]

Oh, and if anyone would like to see for themselves have a look......this information is readily available for anyone to find.

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Look man, once Cronin gets his fleet of fighter jets and Jerry Jones Stadium, we'll win it all every year. Right now he is skating uphill with both hands tied behind his back!

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

Look man, once Cronin gets his fleet of fighter jets and Jerry Jones Stadium, we'll win it all every year. Right now he is skating uphill with both hands tied behind his back!

If UC got a stadium like Jerry Jones has we might mess around and with the NBA Title. After all the only thing holding us back is a new arena!

 

[UCBearcats]

If UC got a stadium like Jerry Jones has we might mess around and with the NBA Title. After all the only thing holding us back is a new arena!

There's no doubt Mick is a much more accomplished coach than Steve Kerr. I'd like our chances in a 7 game series......but only if Jenifer get's significant minutes.

 

[Nayers]

butts hurting sooooo bad

 

[jacobkdoyle]

butts hurting sooooo bad

1-4 in the NCAA Tournament last 4 years.

1-3 all time in the AAC Tournament

4th and 5th place finishes in the AAC

Pace at the very bottom of D1 every year.

Same tired excuses.

Excuse me for not being content. I guess accepting any results makes a good fan. And I guess we should just be happy to have a basketball program.

 

[indydoug]

1-4 in the NCAA Tournament last 4 years.

1-3 all time in the AAC Tournament

4th and 5th place finishes in the AAC

Pace at the very bottom of D1 every year.

Same tired excuses.

Excuse me for not being content. I guess accepting any results makes a good fan. And I guess we should just be happy to have a basketball program.

Not to belabor the point and I do understand tiebreakers for seeding in the conference Tournament but UC actually finished tied for 3rd both years (meeting expectations both years) in 2015 and 2016. You failed to mention that they tied for 1st in inugural AAC year (2014) when UL & UC tied at 15-3 exceeding expectations. Why leave out the 2014 year other than failing to fit your narrative? UConn, THE premier AAC program finished BEHIND UC all 3 years (yes, I know UConn did better in post-season)--T-#3 (2014); T-#5 (2015); and #6th (2016). I'm not saying Cronin is an elite coach, but his accomplishments the past 6 years are VERY consistent with the past 20 years of UC basketball.

 

[westsidecat]

Not to belabor the point and I do understand tiebreakers for seeding in the conference Tournament but UC actually finished tied for 3rd both years (meeting expectations both years) in 2015 and 2016. You failed to mention that they tied for 1st in inugural AAC year (2014) when UL & UC tied at 15-3 exceeding expectations. Why leave out the 2014 year other than failing to fit your narrative? UConn, THE premier AAC program finished BEHIND UC all 3 years (yes, I know UConn did better in post-season)--T-#3 (2014); T-#5 (2015); and #6th (2016). I'm not saying Cronin is an elite coach, but his accomplishments the past 6 years are VERY consistent with the past 20 years of UC basketball.

Well if you look at it from this point of view, mick and uc are trending downward. From first to third, with the same results in march.

 

[Ryno99]

1-4 in the NCAA Tournament last 4 years.

1-3 all time in the AAC Tournament

4th and 5th place finishes in the AAC

Pace at the very bottom of D1 every year.

Same tired excuses.

Excuse me for not being content. I guess accepting any results makes a good fan. And I guess we should just be happy to have a basketball program.

Jacob, I don't think anyone that is supporting Mick as the Bearcats coach is accepting the status quo. In my case, I do expect better, but I also recognize other factors than just the coach come in to play. I truly believe that Mick is the right coach for the job long term. I mean look at all the national pundits, local sports writers, they all thought Cincinnati was screwed if Mick left, that the university couldn't do better "in the situation" it is in. I'm hoping that if they are able to move to a power 5, get a new arena that recruiting will start getting better, which in turn will allow for better results both in on court performance and financially for the university which will allow it to invest more in the program as well.

I think when it all comes down to brass tacks, no true fan is satisfied with the status quo its just the difference in perspective, some feel changing the coach is needed others feel other changes need to be made to allow the current coach to "grow" and advance the program. I'm one of those, I think Mick is the man for the job, does he need to evolve in some areas of his coaching, absolutely, but I don't believe the grass would have been greener on the other side had he left, I actually think the grass would have been dormant or worse dead. But that just my opinion.

At this point, we all know who the coach is going to be for the foreseeable future, now it's time for all of us as fans to support the program, get over past differences and do our best to help it move forward and quit with all the negative. We all have one thing in common if we're here posting, that's a passion for the Cincinnati Bearcats, let's put our differences aside and support them (including their coach) going forward.

What do you all say? Who's with me?

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Not to belabor the point and I do understand tiebreakers for seeding in the conference Tournament but UC actually finished tied for 3rd both years (meeting expectations both years) in 2015 and 2016. You failed to mention that they tied for 1st in inugural AAC year (2014) when UL & UC tied at 15-3 exceeding expectations. Why leave out the 2014 year other than failing to fit your narrative? UConn, THE premier AAC program finished BEHIND UC all 3 years (yes, I know UConn did better in post-season)--T-#3 (2014); T-#5 (2015); and #6th (2016). I'm not saying Cronin is an elite coach, but his accomplishments the past 6 years are VERY consistent with the past 20 years of UC basketball.

Doug, I was responding to the "butt hurt" comment. So I was listing reasons why that may be. It isn't all doom and gloom. You can easily come up with a list of positive things about the program in that time frame as well. The 1st place you mentioned, the 1st Team All-American, All-Conference performers, and NCAA appearances.

UConn has won 2 of the last 6 National Championships, so I'm not going to take much else they're doing into consideration in comparison to UC.

 

[UCBearcats]

Jacob, I don't think anyone that is supporting Mick as the Bearcats coach is accepting the status quo. In my case, I do expect better, but I also recognize other factors than just the coach come in to play. I truly believe that Mick is the right coach for the job long term. I mean look at all the national pundits, local sports writers, they all thought Cincinnati was screwed if Mick left, that the university couldn't do better "in the situation" it is in. I'm hoping that if they are able to move to a power 5, get a new arena that recruiting will start getting better, which in turn will allow for better results both in on court performance and financially for the university which will allow it to invest more in the program as well.

I think when it all comes down to brass tacks, no true fan is satisfied with the status quo its just the difference in perspective, some feel changing the coach is needed others feel other changes need to be made to allow the current coach to "grow" and advance the program. I'm one of those, I think Mick is the man for the job, does he need to evolve in some areas of his coaching, absolutely, but I don't believe the grass would have been greener on the other side had he left, I actually think the grass would have been dormant or worse dead. But that just my opinion.

At this point, we all know who the coach is going to be for the foreseeable future, now it's time for all of us as fans to support the program, get over past differences and do our best to help it move forward and quit with all the negative. We all have one thing in common if we're here posting, that's a passion for the Cincinnati Bearcats, let's put our differences aside and support them (including their coach) going forward.

What do you all say? Who's with me?

Screw you and your attempts at optimism and level headed reasoning. I'm sure that come the start of next season I'll wipe the slate clean with Mick one again and get excited only to be gradually let down over the course of the season. It's becoming an annual tradition. For now though I'm going to be bitter and I'm going to complain because not only did Mick have another crap year but he also go my hopes up by pretending like he was going to leave.

I honestly don't put much stock in what a lot of the national pundits say and I put zero in what any of the local media have to say. Mick has personal relationships with a few of those national guys and all the local guys so I take a lot of what they say with a grain of salt.

I didn't see where all the national guys were saying UC was screwed if Mick left, I did see what a lot of the national guys were scratching their heads about why UNLV would considering paying Mick Cronin $3mm/year.

 

[westsidecat]

I didn't see where all the national guys were saying UC was screwed if Mick left,

They didn't, there was very little reporting by the national media. If you wernt a fan of either school you didn't even know it was going on.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Jacob, I don't think anyone that is supporting Mick as the Bearcats coach is accepting the status quo. In my case, I do expect better, but I also recognize other factors than just the coach come in to play. I truly believe that Mick is the right coach for the job long term. I mean look at all the national pundits, local sports writers, they all thought Cincinnati was screwed if Mick left, that the university couldn't do better "in the situation" it is in. I'm hoping that if they are able to move to a power 5, get a new arena that recruiting will start getting better, which in turn will allow for better results both in on court performance and financially for the university which will allow it to invest more in the program as well.

I think when it all comes down to brass tacks, no true fan is satisfied with the status quo its just the difference in perspective, some feel changing the coach is needed others feel other changes need to be made to allow the current coach to "grow" and advance the program. I'm one of those, I think Mick is the man for the job, does he need to evolve in some areas of his coaching, absolutely, but I don't believe the grass would have been greener on the other side had he left, I actually think the grass would have been dormant or worse dead. But that just my opinion.

At this point, we all know who the coach is going to be for the foreseeable future, now it's time for all of us as fans to support the program, get over past differences and do our best to help it move forward and quit with all the negative. We all have one thing in common if we're here posting, that's a passion for the Cincinnati Bearcats, let's put our differences aside and support them (including their coach) going forward.

What do you all say? Who's with me?

Ryno, I can get on board with that. But it's hard to be so optimistic when we see the same coaching staff, and the same coaching philosophy...but somehow expect better results. I'm so reluctant to jump in with both feet bc I'm not sure what will make next year different from this year. And admittedly, I'm a little bitter bc I allowed myself to get burned by actually believing we'd see a tweak to our style of play. The scoring numbers as a whole were up, but in the biggest games and road games, it was the same old struggle to score 60 most of the time. I'm so tired of it. Not only are we not advancing anywhere in the postseason, but our games are boring as hell to watch a lot of the time. It just feels so stale. I'd love to see some new faces on the staff to try and give us a little bit of a new energy.

 

[indydoug]

Doug, I was responding to the "butt hurt" comment. So I was listing reasons why that may be. It isn't all doom and gloom. You can easily come up with a list of positive things about the program in that time frame as well. The 1st place you mentioned, the 1st Team All-American, All-Conference performers, and NCAA appearances.

UConn has won 2 of the last 6 National Championships, so I'm not going to take much else they're doing into consideration in comparison to UC.

Sorry, that's what I get for skimming through this same discussion. I was just pointing out that based on the recent history of this program, Mick has done consistently well within that time frame. Everyone wants better results but realism needs to come into play.Does anyone think UC would have won all those CUSA regular season conference championships had UC been in the BIG EAST all those years? We'll never know but it is very doubtful. And of course Huggins' last decade here was VERY consistent with what we've seen the past 6 years. I don"t
buy into the idea Mick is disadvantaged because of lack of $$ and/or facilities, hell Butler made two straight Finals with less $$ and facilities. One Final 4 in the past 50+ years does not equal an elite program, even though UC had a pretty good 5 year run in the early 90's. UC had one other far better 5 year run in the 50-60's and that's been about it. Otherwise a solid top 30 national program.

 

[Ryno99]

Ryno, I can get on board with that. But it's hard to be so optimistic when we see the same coaching staff, and the same coaching philosophy...but somehow expect better results. I'm so reluctant to jump in with both feet bc I'm not sure what will make next year different from this year. And admittedly, I'm a little bitter bc I allowed myself to get burned by actually believing we'd see a tweak to our style of play. The scoring numbers as a whole were up, but in the biggest games and road games, it was the same old struggle to score 60 most of the time. I'm so tired of it. Not only are we not advancing anywhere in the postseason, but our games are boring as hell to watch a lot of the time. It just feels so stale. I'd love to see some new faces on the staff to try and give us a little bit of a new energy.

Jacob, I feel ya with the style of play and that is the key area I hope that Mick and his staff can evolve. But that doesn't make me feel that he isn't the best option for the program at this point. We know what we've got at this point, let's rally behind it, create a fun enthusiastic environment for the players and support the program as a whole.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

State of the program. Mick is the coach.some like it some don't.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

State of the program. Mick is the coach.some like it some don't.

For me it's more about the exact same staff doing the exact same thing every year. I'm looking for something to shake things up. Get Kenyon on the staff, or another former player, or someone else who played the game somewhat recently for recruiting. Change the tempo, scrap the zone, run an offense almost exclusively that allows 4 guys spread on the perimeter. Focus less on weight lifting and more on quickness, fitness, and cardio. Something. Anything. Doing the same thing over and over and over and over isn't elevating our program.

 

[rogerOH]

I am 100% behind coach, of course I wasn't ready to can Badger. That being said I think Tubberville needs to go. One thing I know these 6 years in a row to make the NCAA's, Cronin has done it without cheating or bringing in athletes that have baggage. Huggins teams had twice the talent of any of any of Mick's teams but at what cost to the reputation of U C.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

For me it's more about the exact same staff doing the exact same thing every year. I'm looking for something to shake things up. Get Kenyon on the staff, or another former player, or someone else who played the game somewhat recently for recruiting. Change the tempo, scrap the zone, run an offense almost exclusively that allows 4 guys spread on the perimeter. Focus less on weight lifting and more on quickness, fitness, and cardio. Something. Anything. Doing the same thing over and over and over and over isn't elevating our program.

While its unpopular I'll say it again.Get us in a P5 conference. Anything else is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titantic. 14-16 teams in the sweet 16 were all P-5 members. The gap is only going to get wider. Can't believe more people aren't upset about the fact we have spent much money to renovate Nippert to get us in the P5 and we are still on the outside looking in with a Football product on the field that is going backwards.