State of the Program

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I am 100% behind coach, of course I wasn't ready to can Badger. That being said I think Tubberville needs to go. One thing I know these 6 years in a row to make the NCAA's, Cronin has done it without cheating or bringing in athletes that have baggage. Huggins teams had twice the talent of any of any of Mick's teams but at what cost to the reputation of U C.

looking back is useless. The landscape of College athletics are changing rapidly. Reputation isn't killing us.

Look I'm not saying we can't compete or as a fan base we shouldn't want to. What I'm saying is teams that have huge budgets are going to rule the day. Just like large market teams in baseball it will become that way in college athletics. Heck to a certain extent it's already there. Can you have short unsustained runs, of course but theres a reason schools like TOSU and ALA are there every year in Football. Look at Louisvile. Through the years they have always a big rival. How did they leave us in the dust?

 

[jacobkdoyle]

While its unpopular I'll say it again.Get us in a P5 conference. Anything else is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titantic. 14-16 teams in the sweet 16 were all P-5 members. The gap is only going to get wider. Can't believe more people aren't upset about the fact we have spent much money to renovate Nippert to get us in the P5 and we are still on the outside looking in with a Football product on the field that is going backwards.

Waite, do you think Cronin is a perfect coach? Even the big time Cronin guys admit that things are not perfect. So until we get into a different conference, you say don't change a thing? Just do the exact same thing we've been doing? We need to continue to evolve with the times. If Cronin is the same coach he was last year, or the year before, that's a problem. And that is not unique to Cronin, it is true for any coach. We will be in the AAC next year, so am I to understand that your take is "Roll the ball out there and do it all over again. No changes needed."? I'm not asking you to rip into the coach or program, but is there anything at all you would change about the way we operate, if you could?

As far as football, pathetic state right now. Unfortunately, no one cares enough, or is passionate enough to even take the time to have a take. That's sad.. At least the people talking basketball care, whether we agree or disagree on how things are going.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

looking back is useless. The landscape of College athletics are changing rapidly. Reputation isn't killing us.

Look I'm not saying we can't compete or as a fan base we shouldn't want to. What I'm saying is teams that have huge budgets are going to rule the day. Just like large market teams in baseball it will become that way in college athletics. Heck to a certain extent it's already there. Can you have short unsustained runs, of course but theres a reason schools like TOSU and ALA are there every year in Football. Look at Louisvile. Through the years they have always a big rival. How did they leave us in the dust?

Instead of looking at the giant landscape as a whole, let's narrow the focus to the AAC. Bc for better or worse, that's where we are. How do we dominate the AAC? Bc right now, we're not doing that. Prove we can rule the conference, then I'll join you in the P5 gripe. But you are putting the cart before the horse.

*Also, small market baseball teams win all the time .

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Waite, do you think Cronin is a perfect coach? Even the big time Cronin guys admit that things are not perfect. So until we get into a different conference, you say don't change a thing? Just do the exact same thing we've been doing? We need to continue to evolve with the times. If Cronin is the same coach he was last year, or the year before, that's a problem. And that is not unique to Cronin, it is true for any coach. We will be in the AAC next year, so am I to understand that your take is "Roll the ball out there and do it all over again. No changes needed."? I'm not asking you to rip into the coach or program, but is there anything at all you would change about the way we operate, if you could?

As far as football, pathetic state right now. Unfortunately, no one cares enough, or is passionate enough to even take the time to have a take. That's sad.. At least the people talking basketball care, whether we agree or disagree on how things are going.

I think Cronin is a good Coach. You want to try and improve the product as it stands now have at it. I think we will be a very good team next year. how I would improve next year is get more athletic in our backcourt and bring in a grad transfer big. Have 3 scholly's to accomplish that.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Instead of looking at the giant landscape as a whole, let's narrow the focus to the AAC. Bc for better or worse, that's where we are. How do we dominate the AAC? Bc right now, we're not doing that. Prove we can rule the conference, then I'll join you in the P5 gripe. But you are putting the cart before the horse.

*Also, small market baseball teams win all the time .

oh how I wish gnat were true for our reds.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I think Cronin is a good Coach. You want to try and improve the product as it stands now have at it. I think we will be a very good team next year. how I would improve next year is get more athletic in our backcourt and bring in a grad transfer big. Have 3 scholly's to accomplish that.

I'm with you here.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

oh how I wish gnat were true for our reds.

They certainly had their window. Need to keep trying to restock before Votto gets too old. Surrounding him with .310 OBP guys isn't gonna work.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

They certainly had their window. Need to keep trying to restock before Votto gets too old. Surrounding him with .310 OBP guys isn't gonna work.

Yea a real key for me this season is if Hamilton can take a step forward. Would help the whole line up. This year will be crazy. Still think they will make a run at trading BP again and no way does Bruce finish the season with he reds.

 

[UCBearcats]

looking back is useless. The landscape of College athletics are changing rapidly. Reputation isn't killing us.

Look I'm not saying we can't compete or as a fan base we shouldn't want to. What I'm saying is teams that have huge budgets are going to rule the day. Just like large market teams in baseball it will become that way in college athletics. Heck to a certain extent it's already there. Can you have short unsustained runs, of course but theres a reason schools like TOSU and ALA are there every year in Football. Look at Louisvile. Through the years they have always a big rival. How did they leave us in the dust?

So when we were in the Big East we couldn't expect championships because it was too hard and now that we're in the AAC we shouldn't expect to be good because the conference is too easy??

Wild stuff.......

 

[bearcatbacker82]

So when we were in the Big East we couldn't expect championships because it was too hard and now that we're in the AAC we shouldn't expect to be good because the conference is too easy??

Wild stuff.......

Perfect comment

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Create whatever expectation you want. We did very well in the Big East. Especially under the circumstances we entered the league. My point is it's easier to recruit to the big East then the AAC.

 

[TheRealUC]

I see a lot of pace of play arguments here, so here are the numbers i found during a very brief search:

year and rank
97-98= 139
98-99= 208
99-00= 164
00-01= 255
01-02= 185
02-03= 280
03-04= 166
04-05= 100
05-06= 67
06-07= 243
07-08= 247
08-09= 200
09-10= 199
10-11= 306
11-12= 244
12-13= 199
13-14= 304
14-15= 340
15-16= 289

Yikes…I see where thats a problem. Although this year we were ahead of team like Virginia and Louisville. Also interesting that UC averaged the 2nd highest PPG during that span.

 

[justinhub2003]

For me it's more about the exact same staff doing the exact same thing every year. I'm looking for something to shake things up. Get Kenyon on the staff, or another former player, or someone else who played the game somewhat recently for recruiting. Change the tempo, scrap the zone, run an offense almost exclusively that allows 4 guys spread on the perimeter. Focus less on weight lifting and more on quickness, fitness, and cardio. Something. Anything. Doing the same thing over and over and over and over isn't elevating our program.

But don't you think we will Change offensive strategy just by the personnel change alone?

Deberry and Ellis made us play traditional post up offense and Ellis, as Much as I like him as a human and the way he matured, couldn't catch a good pass if he tried. Losing those guys will make less reliant on post up offense.

Clark and Washington can stretch the D. Hopefully Cumberland and Evans aren
shy about those nearly opened up driving lanes and can exploit them.

Thats thing that will frustrate me (and Im a huge mick supportor): If we don't let the guy who can drive the ball drive the ball. Evans can do it and Cumberland can do it and I want to see us drive the ball as its the biggest difference I see between elite offenses and our offenses, they have players who can get to the basket and make easy shots. We either take contested post up shots or jumpers and it needs to stop, its a glaring issue with the offense.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

But don't you think we will Change offensive strategy just by the personnel change alone?

Deberry and Ellis made us play traditional post up offense and Ellis, as Much as I like him as a human and the way he matured, couldn't catch a good pass if he tried. Losing those guys will make less reliant on post up offense.

Clark and Washington can stretch the D. Hopefully Cumberland and Evans aren
shy about those nearly opened up driving lanes and can exploit them.

Thats thing that will frustrate me (and Im a huge mick supportor): If we don't let the guy who can drive the ball drive the ball. Evans can do it and Cumberland can do it and I want to see us drive the ball as its the biggest difference I see between elite offenses and our offenses, they have players who can get to the basket and make easy shots. We either take contested post up shots or jumpers and it needs to stop, its a glaring issue with the offense.

Need to get more athletic. Hopefully we are looking to do that with at least 2 of our last three school's. I think one will go to a big.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

I'd buy a lot more peanuts and dew from a new concession stand... putting UC basketball in the green.

 

[prancer]

But don't you think we will Change offensive strategy just by the personnel change alone?

Deberry and Ellis made us play traditional post up offense and Ellis, as Much as I like him as a human and the way he matured, couldn't catch a good pass if he tried. Losing those guys will make less reliant on post up offense.

Clark and Washington can stretch the D. Hopefully Cumberland and Evans aren
shy about those nearly opened up driving lanes and can exploit them.

Thats thing that will frustrate me (and Im a huge mick supportor): If we don't let the guy who can drive the ball drive the ball. Evans can do it and Cumberland can do it and I want to see us drive the ball as its the biggest difference I see between elite offenses and our offenses, they have players who can get to the basket and make easy shots. We either take contested post up shots or jumpers and it needs to stop, its a glaring issue with the offense.

I agree with what you say about driving the ball and settling for bad shots. Our offense has always looked stagnant under Mick. I'm happy he's still here, but that's by far my biggest complaint about Mick. When we score, it's despite his offensive scheme, not because of it.

I think people are grasping at straws trying to find reasons to believe that next year the offense will be different (better). Why would being "less reliant on post up offense" suggest that we'll be any better putting the ball in the basket? Plenty of top teams have traditional 4/5 guys whose primary offensive game is to post up/rebound. You don't need a stretch 4/5 to be elite.

And on the topic of changing personnel, I'm not sold that the new guys are an improvement on the guys that are leaving. Washington looks like a solid D1 player, but he may be the only one from that bunch who makes a large contribution next year. All the others are completely untested.

 

[UCBearcats]

Need to get more athletic. Hopefully we are looking to do that with at least 2 of our last three school's. I think one will go to a big.

We don't need to be more athletic. We need better basketball players. Shaq Thomas was athletic, Octavious Ellis was athletic.......we need guys who know how to play basketball.

Mick's teams have generally been some of the worst passing teams I've ever seen. I'd start with a couple of guys who know how to pass the basketball.

Mick's teams have generally not done much screening or movement without the ball. I'd get a couple guys who know how to move without a basketball in their hands and who know how to set screens.

Mick's teams have generally loved to shoot long shots but lacked guys who are actually good at it. It's get a couple of guys who can shoot.

Mick's teams have generally lacked the coaching necessary to help them to excel on the offensive side of the court. I'd go out and get a coach who can teach these kids how to become better offensive players.

 

[HarryBosch]

We don't need to be more athletic. We need better basketball players. Shaq Thomas was athletic, Octavious Ellis was athletic.......we need guys who know how to play basketball.

Mick's teams have generally been some of the worst passing teams I've ever seen. I'd start with a couple of guys who know how to pass the basketball.

Mick's teams have generally not done much screening or movement without the ball. I'd get a couple guys who know how to move without a basketball in their hands and who know how to set screens.

Mick's teams have generally loved to shoot long shots but lacked guys who are actually good at it. It's get a couple of guys who can shoot.

Mick's teams have generally lacked the coaching necessary to help them to excel on the offensive side of the court. I'd go out and get a coach who can teach these kids how to become better offensive players.

One thing that struck me while I was watching the Sweet Sixteen was that all the teams seem to have more foot speed than UC.

 

[UCBearcats]

One thing that struck me while I was watching the Sweet Sixteen was that all the teams seem to have more foot speed than UC.

Let me rephrase my original comment since it was pretty broad. In the past we've looked at raw athleticism as opposed to true basketball skills. Of course it would be nice for us to have a more athletic team, but I think the days of sacrificing true basketball talent for the sake of pure athleticism need to go away.

If we can get both, a good athlete who also can play basketball then that would be ideal. The problem is most of those kids aren't coming to UC to play for Mick Cronin.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

But don't you think we will Change offensive strategy just by the personnel change alone?

Deberry and Ellis made us play traditional post up offense and Ellis, as Much as I like him as a human and the way he matured, couldn't catch a good pass if he tried. Losing those guys will make less reliant on post up offense.

Clark and Washington can stretch the D. Hopefully Cumberland and Evans aren
shy about those nearly opened up driving lanes and can exploit them.

Thats thing that will frustrate me (and Im a huge mick supportor): If we don't let the guy who can drive the ball drive the ball. Evans can do it and Cumberland can do it and I want to see us drive the ball as its the biggest difference I see between elite offenses and our offenses, they have players who can get to the basket and make easy shots. We either take contested post up shots or jumpers and it needs to stop, its a glaring issue with the offense.

Justin, on paper there are all the reasons in the world to emphasize different things offensively based on our personnel. Do I believe I'll see much difference next February when we're playing at Tulsa or Houston or whatever? Unfortunately not. I expect to see us routinely taking 9.99 seconds to cross halfcourt against no pressure and scoring 57-62. I'm not getting burned again. I better see it first. Ellis was not a good post player. Not even a little. And Clark did just fine with the ball outside of post touches. And DeBerry barely played. So to act like we HAD to go 2 post guys all the time this year is silly. Also no reason Caupain, Johnson, Thomas, Clark, and Ellis couldn't have been playing man-to-man. So now we're going to switch these things? Don't get me wrong, I hope to God we play 4-out, heavy ball screen offense, with intense man-to-man defense. I'd love an "Our 5 vs your 5 approach". A guy like Kevin Johnson has a much better chance of winning his individual matchup if he's allowed to be everywhere on the floor defensively. But I'll believe it when I see it.