State of the Program

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Justin, on paper there are all the reasons in the world to emphasize different things offensively based on our personnel. Do I believe I'll see much difference next February when we're playing at Tulsa or Houston or whatever? Unfortunately not. I expect to see us routinely taking 9.99 seconds to cross halfcourt against no pressure and scoring 57-62. I'm not getting burned again. I better see it first. Ellis was not a good post player. Not even a little. And Clark did just fine with the ball outside of post touches. And DeBerry barely played. So to act like we HAD to go 2 post guys all the time this year is silly. Also no reason Caupain, Johnson, Thomas, Clark, and Ellis couldn't have been playing man-to-man. So now we're going to switch these things? Don't get me wrong, I hope to God we play 4-out, heavy ball screen offense, with intense man-to-man defense. I'd love an "Our 5 vs your 5 approach". A guy like Kevin Johnson has a much better chance of winning his individual matchup if he's allowed to be everywhere on the floor defensively. But I'll believe it when I see it.

Jake why would you want to change our defense scheme? Didn't we rank fairly high in defense efficiency. I also thought we averaged a few more points then 62 last year. I have no issue pushing the ball if you have the players to do so. I really think Mick believes he is playing the style he feels fits his players talents the best. Thus giving him the best chance to win.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Jake why would you want to change our defense scheme? Didn't we rank fairly high in defense efficiency. I also thought we averaged a few more points then 62 last year.

I believe we averaged 57.8 pts/40 minutes in AAC road games.

I like the accountability factor of man defense. It's what grown men play. I'm looking for this core group to bring some swagger back to UC basketball next year.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I believe we averaged 57.8 pts/40 minutes in AAC road games.

I like the accountability factor of man defense. It's what grown men play. I'm looking for this core group to bring some swagger back to UC basketball next year.

I could give a flying you know what about swagger. I want wins. If that means playing a zone like Syracuse I could care less. You don't put squares pegs in round holes. If your asking me as a fan which style I prefer watching, The Runnin Rebs and Laker Showtime were two of my all time favorite teams. If we can attract that type of player to successfully run the court. I'm all for it. Don't think you'll see it this year. You may see a little quicker pace but not much.

Oh and I agree. We were terrible on the road.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I could give a flying F##K about swagger. I want wins. If that means playing a zone like Syracuse I could care less. You don't put squares pegs in round holes. If your asking me as a fan which style I prefer watching, The Runnin Rebs and Laker Showtime were two of my all time favorite teams. If we can attract that type of player to successfully run the court. I'm all for it. Don't think you'll see it this year. You may see a little quicker pace but not much.

Oh and I agree. We were terrible on the road.

I don't think this roster is square pegs in round holes when it comes to man defense. We can always use the zone in certain situations too.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I don't think this roster is square pegs in round holes when it comes to man defense. We can always use the zone in certain situations too.

The Coach does. So do I. I don't think it will get better early on with Cumberland either. Not only that but the best part of this team was its defense. Why would you want to change that? Don't need to do that to push the basketball.

 

[JasonS]

I don't think this roster is square pegs in round holes when it comes to man defense. We can always use the zone in certain situations too.

I personally like the zone because it is tough to prepare for. Look, UC finished the year as a top 10 or 20 defensive team. No need to complain about that. I would like to see us do a better job of defending the corner three. That was our nemesis all year. I also wouldn't mind seeing us switch up defenses from time to time to make the offense have to think a bit. Play a little man to man, play some 1-3-1, play the hybrid zone we currently play. Just change it up a bit.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I personally like the zone because it is tough to prepare for. Look, UC finished the year as a top 10 or 20 defensive team. No need to complain about that. I would like to see us do a better job of defending the corner three. That was our nemesis all year. I also wouldn't mind seeing us switch up defenses from time to time to make the offense have to think a bit. Play a little man to man, play some 1-3-1, play the hybrid zone we currently play. Just change it up a bit.

Our guards had trouble stopping dribble drive penetration this year. One reason we gave up a lot of open corner threes. Our bench was another issue 3 of our 4 subs had trouble guarding. Quadri and JJ were lost and DeBerry had trouble with better athletes. KJ was our best on the ball defender. Ellis was long and effective but was sitting because of dumb fouls away from the ball. Clark was a very good off the ball defender. He would come out of nowhere to get a steal or block a shot. TC was slow and had trouble with quicker guards.. Shaq's defense was the best part of his game. Evans got better as the season went on but had issues with fouls. Think he will be better this year.

You need more bench depth then we had to play pressure defense.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Here's what Cronin said yesterday Waite:

“It will allow us to spread the floor more on the offensive end and it will allow us some flexibility on the defensive end to play man-to-man like we did in (Sean Kilpatrick’s) senior year (2013-14) with Justin (Jackson) and Titus (Rubles).”

^He is talking about versatile bigs like Clark and Washington. Evans is fine too. You want to stop dribble penetration? Let Kevin Johnson use his athleticism to lock up the best opposing guard.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Here's what Cronin said yesterday Waite:

“It will allow us to spread the floor more on the offensive end and it will allow us some flexibility on the defensive end to play man-to-man like we did in (Sean Kilpatrick’s) senior year (2013-14) with Justin (Jackson) and Titus (Rubles).”

^He is talking about versatile bigs like Clark and Washington. Evans is fine too. You want to stop dribble penetration? Let Kevin Johnson use his athleticism to lock up the best opposing guard.

then you think KJ is going to see a bunch of minutes. hell you'll be bald by the end of the season. I definitely think Wshington will help spread the floor offensively but I wouldn't count on us playing man to man. Not unless we bring in some nice talent ready to play with or last 3 school's.

 

[UCBearcats]

The Coach does.

You have no clue what the coach thinks......this is a facts vs lies thread, lies are not welcome here

Here's what Cronin said yesterday Waite:

“It will allow us to spread the floor more on the offensive end and it will allow us some flexibility on the defensive end to play man-to-man like we did in (Sean Kilpatrick’s) senior year (2013-14) with Justin (Jackson) and Titus (Rubles).”

^He is talking about versatile bigs like Clark and Washington. Evans is fine too. You want to stop dribble penetration? Let Kevin Johnson use his athleticism to lock up the best opposing guard.

You can rest assured if Cronin said it's going to change it won't......mark it down.

 

[Bearcatmatt]

I personally like the zone because it is tough to prepare for. Look, UC finished the year as a top 10 or 20 defensive team. No need to complain about that. I would like to see us do a better job of defending the corner three. That was our nemesis all year. I also wouldn't mind seeing us switch up defenses from time to time to make the offense have to think a bit. Play a little man to man, play some 1-3-1, play the hybrid zone we currently play. Just change it up a bit.

I agree with you on the corner 3. That killed us all year. Our zone would collapse and then the kick outs to the corner would give way to open shots. I actually wish Cronin would switch his Defenses more from man to zone and that he would run his press, but I'm guessing we were just too slow on the perimeter to do that.

There was an article posted a few years ago that had basically said in a span of 10 years, every NCAA Tournament Champion with the exception of 1 had a top 30 defense AND offense. The lone exception that didn't have both was still elite in one of the categories (if memory serves). I couldn't find that article, but I think the time span from 2002-2012 or something.

In my search, I did find this, which basically confirms the same line of thinking - http://www.streakingthelawn.com/201...acket-analysis-history-says-virginias-offense

It basically states that of the KenPom metrics taken over the past 14 years, teams that rank in the top 20 in Defense and Offense have made the Elite Eight 20 out of 31 times, with 14 of those 20 making the Final Four and only 2 losing before the Sweet 16.

Teams in the Top 10 in both D and O made the Elite Eight 14 out of 21 times and the reached Final Four 11 times out of those same 21 attempts.

That's pretty telling. We can focus on defense all we want, but until Cronin can fix our offense and we can put points on the board, we aren't going to be more than a threat to perhaps upset someone in March and maybe get into the second weekend.

 

[seldompost]

I don't claim to be basketball expert, so this is from memory of Cronin comments. Cronin likes to play man to man. He hasn't the last couple years because of players ability. Everyone uses the pick and roll, and he prefers to switch on ball screens. We haven't had the players to do that without getting into bad matchups. Plus the zone keeps the fouls down. When he has a team that can switch, he will play more man to man. Cronin has had great defensive teams that played man to man. Cronin knows defense, and we shouldn't worry about that.

Offense is the challenge. Next year we have a PG, wing, and PF who are good scorers and passers. That is more than enough in college BB. We should have a good offense and will be good measuring stick.

 

[justinhub2003]

Justin, on paper there are all the reasons in the world to emphasize different things offensively based on our personnel. Do I believe I'll see much difference next February when we're playing at Tulsa or Houston or whatever? Unfortunately not. I expect to see us routinely taking 9.99 seconds to cross halfcourt against no pressure and scoring 57-62. I'm not getting burned again. I better see it first. Ellis was not a good post player. Not even a little. And Clark did just fine with the ball outside of post touches. And DeBerry barely played. So to act like we HAD to go 2 post guys all the time this year is silly. Also no reason Caupain, Johnson, Thomas, Clark, and Ellis couldn't have been playing man-to-man. So now we're going to switch these things? Don't get me wrong, I hope to God we play 4-out, heavy ball screen offense, with intense man-to-man defense. I'd love an "Our 5 vs your 5 approach". A guy like Kevin Johnson has a much better chance of winning his individual matchup if he's allowed to be everywhere on the floor defensively. But I'll believe it when I see it.

Im fine with everything you said except the Defensive part. Why would we change out the matchup Zone when its been so effective for us? I mean, I understand Man to Man is more traditional in College basketball but our Defense is one area where we shouldn't have to many gripes with.

I want to be faster on offense and more fluid but I want the defense to still force teams to use a lot of shot clock to get off a good shot. Now would I be opposed to switching to man a few times a game to just keep the offense on its toes, sure but I don't want to change a defense that has been statisically one of the best in the country for the last 3 years

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Im fine with everything you said except the Defensive part. Why would we change out the matchup Zone when its been so effective for us? I mean, I understand Man to Man is more traditional in College basketball but our Defense is one area where we shouldn't have to many gripes with.

I want to be faster on offense and more fluid but I want the defense to still force teams to use a lot of shot clock to get off a good shot. Now would I be opposed to switching to man a few times a game to just keep the offense on its toes, sure but I don't want to change a defense that has been statisically one of the best in the country for the last 3 years

40% of the zone team of the last 2 years is gone, including both C. Our personnel next year screams man to man. Our 3 pt defense will improve, and we can be more effective on the defensive glass. We have legit lock-down guys on the wing. Johnson is one of the best on ball guys in the league, and Clark has gotten used to defending out to the 3 pt line. Evans is just a baller and competitor, no one will ever have to worry about him. Washington is also more athletic than any 5 I can think of in the Cronin era. These guys can all get after it.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

40% of the zone team of the last 2 years is gone, including both C. Our personnel next year screams man to man. Our 3 pt defense will improve, and we can be more effective on the defensive glass. We have legit lock-down guys on the wing. Johnson is one of the best on ball guys in the league, and Clark has gotten used to defending out to the 3 pt line. Evans is just a baller and competitor, no one will ever have to worry about him. Washington is also more athletic than any 5 I can think of in the Cronin era. These guys can all get after it.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Your best on the ball defender was a guy you wanted buried on the bench last year. Has he changed your mind? TC's lack of foot speed makes dribble drive penetration a big issue for him. Quad,JJ and Cumberland will play heck trying to guard M2M. I guess time will tell.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

saw this and found it interesting.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-much-is-your-college-basketball-team-worth-1459459516

 

[jacobkdoyle]

This thread can be used for more general thoughts about the basketball program. If a thread spirals from the originally intended topic, moving the conversation over here may be helpful.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

GarrardJ, here are some things off the top of my head I'd say Coach Cronin does well:

-Gets us to the tournament every year
-Runs a clean program
-Has a top notch defense every season
-Brings in student athletes who represent the university very well
-Has recruited well the past 4-5 years in terms of getting a high impact player in every class
-Has utilized the transfer market in the spring
-Has a very healthy culture with few players transferring/making it about themselves over the team

 

[GarradJ21]

GarrardJ, here are some things off the top of my head I'd say Coach Cronin does well:

-Gets us to the tournament every year
-Runs a clean program
-Has a top notch defense every season
-Brings in student athletes who represent the university very well
-Has recruited well the past 4-5 years in terms of getting a high impact player in every class
-Has utilized the transfer market in the spring
-Has a very healthy culture with few players transferring/making it about themselves over the team

I agree. Good to hear. A lot of stuff I didnt think of. Really, he has a very good program with some good kids. That does say a lot where the kids are really happy here. I talked to cane. He loves it here

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I agree. Good to hear. A lot of stuff I didnt think of. Really, he has a very good program with some good kids. That does say a lot where the kids are really happy here. I talked to cane. He loves it here

We have great kids in our program. Really easy to root for them.