david aka the TYZ
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I'll be in section 208 having a good ol time! I'll be wearing my Xavier girls are still ugly shirt!random post but felt like sharing lol
I'll be in 208 as well. We will bring it!!
The Classic
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I'll be in 208 as well. We will bring it!!
Sure it's a big game for the fans of both programs and the city. I enjoy watching it. But for the programs involved there is much more upside for Eggs and much more downside for UC. When it's held at a neutral site I think it's a slightly better deal for UC.
It wouldn't be in our best interest to schedule an away game with no home game against NM. It wouldn't be in our best interest to give NKU a home and away. IMO it was never in our best interest to give Eggs (with so much to gain) a home and away...maybe a home, home, and away would be more like it but the neutral site is slightly better than what we were doing.
OSU has not done this for UC and it has not backfired on them...no matter how much we want to play them. We accomodated Eggs and sooner or later it was going to be to the benefit of our little sister. Not the best program strategy for UC IMO. But hey...to each their own...it's still a great game to watch and it gets the city riled up. I just wish the advantages for each program were matched more evenly.
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Patrick Bateman
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He was saving a ball against Evansville and instead of throwing the ball of the players leg he threw it right at his face.
This is from the UD board
Chris Mack, who threw the ball into Wes Coffee's face and Jim Crews, who told Mack to do it, are both head coaches in the A-10? I mean, what are the chances?
#BearcatNation
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You mean playing FOR Evansville? I think he went there before Xavier.
UCalum08
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Nice!!! What row?!
Stop you guys are making me jealous I can't go haha
JumpinJack5
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I'm sitting in the seat right next to Mick. He asked me to go give the players advice as he subs people in and out every two minutes!
Patrick Bateman
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I thought he was playing for X at the time but not positive.
Something isn't adding up here. Did Crews and Mack discuss this before the game or as he was saving the ball? If it was pre-meditated I would say that's pretty dick. If it just happened during the course of play...I can think of much worse things to complain about...but I would doubt there was a discussion about it during the play. I've taken a few BB's to the noggin on such plays.
I remember when Bobbit took an intentional punch to the gonads...now that is the very definition of a "low blow".
#BearcatNation
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I found the full story, for anyone interested:
Nineteen years ago Xavier men’s basketball coach Chris Mack played college hoops for the University of Evansville. And Evansville, on a particular occasion, played Dayto
So begins a story that has followed Mack since February of 1990, on the night he popped a ball in a defender’s face while taking it out of bounds under Dayton’s basket.
That defender was Wes Coffee, and he was twice hit in the face by different Purple Aces within the game’s first 13 minutes.
Only the second hit came from Mack. But it launched a sequence of events that led to a near melee between teams, a contrite Mack, a dazed Coffee, an apology letter, and a reputation – for Mack – as a perpetual villain to some in Dayton.
The incident resurfaced in whispers around the time of Mack’s April 15 introduction as XU’s new coach. After a little digging, it was clear that there’s no love lost for the Evansville-turned-Xavier transfer player in Dayton annals: first because of the Coffee incident, and second for his decades-old allegiance to the archrival Musketeers.
Last week Mack was asked to set the record straight. What happened that night, and why? He was happy to oblige.
Double trouble
The story, Mack said, starts like this: Evansville was playing a heated rivalry game at Dayton, which was known as a pressing team.
“I think our coach, Jim Crews, was bothered by the fact that the guy guarding the in-bounder was always stepping over the line. He’d warn referees and they never seemed to move them back. It’s one of those rules that’s in there but they didn’t really follow it,” Chris Mack said.
“And he had made the point in the shoot-around the day before, that if that kept happening, ‘You just boink the guy in the nose with the ball. I’m tired of this.’ We all sort of chuckled and he said, ‘I’m serious. You’re going to boink him in the nose.’”
(Crews, by the way, was a member of Indiana’s 1976 national championship team, led by Bobby Knight. He spent eight years as Hoosier assistant on Knight’s coaching staff before a successful 17-year run at Evansville.)
The day after the shoot-around, the Purple Aces didn’t play well. They were down by 10 or 12 points, Mack said, when his teammate in-bounded the ball under the Flyers’ hoop.
According to Mack and the Dayton Daily News’ account of the game, Evansville guard Scott Schreffler was nearing the end of the five second count and Coffee, a forward/center, was guarding him.
Schreffler threw the ball into Coffee’s face, the paper said. Coffee was stunned, his lip split. He thought it might have been an accident; he was a 7-footer, and an obstacle to get around.
Ten minutes later, then-sophomore Mack was in Schreffler’s place and needed to in-bound the ball against the Flyers’ press.
“The same guy (Coffee) is on the ball and it’s getting close to a five count, and I looked long and I threw it and hit him right in the nose,” Mack said.
At that point most onlookers thought Mack had thrown the ball twice, a misconception he last week wanted to rectify. He said he only threw it once. Coffee agreed.
Still, many in the arena grew incensed – like Coffee’s teammate, Negele Knight, who took the incident personally, the Dayton Daily News said. Knight ran from the wing of Dayton’s press and chest-bumped Mack.
“That’s all I could do,” Knight told the newspaper. “I knew if I started a fight, I’d get thrown out. So I just bumped him to see if I could get a reaction. He didn’t react.”
Following orders
Coffee was shocked after Mack hit him with the ball and remained, for a while, angry.
“Chris hit me really, really good, square on nose and mouth, and split my lip even further. That’s when people realized it was intentional, and there was an uproar,” said Coffee, who lives in Alabama and recently recounted the story.
He didn’t retaliate.
“Even if I wanted to swing, I didn’t know what direction to swing because my eyes were watering so much,” Coffee said.
The referee called a technical foul on Mack, the Dayton Daily News said. The teams shoved each other and the atmosphere was charged, but no fighting took place.
Mack was the only Purple Ace who tried to shake hands after the Flyers’ 23-point win, according to the Dayton Daily News story.
He told its reporter he was sorry, and that he was trying to throw the ball over Coffee’s head – but under the bottom of the backboard – to beat the five-second count.
Mack last week said the latter comments were meant to protect his coach. He took the game to heart and said the Coffee incident contributed to his decision to transfer.
Crews, who became Army’s head coach in 2002, on Monday supported Mack’s account of the game. It sure was a long time ago, Crews said, and he didn’t remember the first ball thrown at Coffee, but Mack did what he was told.
“He followed orders,” Crews said.
Crews said he warned his players then that Dayton defenders were going to keep crossing the line, per their coach’s instruction. If officials weren’t going to whistle them for violations, UD’s players would continue the behavior, Crews said.
Coffee said he never crossed he end line and went out of bounds. He didn’t have to, he said, because his “arms and legs were long enough” to defend the pass.
Lessons learned
Once he returned to Evansville, the exchange weighed on Mack. He composed an apology to Coffee and slipped it in the mail.
“For him to write the letter … I definitely didn’t expect that. He hoped I would forgive him,” Coffee said. “I thought that was very classy. I never held any ill-will against him.”
The next year Mack transferred to Xavier, where he went on to be a two-time captain. He said he loved Crews as a coach, but “those type of things” led him out of Evansville.
“I felt bad. I want to compete and I want to win but I’m not going to do it that way,” Mack said.
Coffee today wishes only the best for Mack and was congratulatory about his new role at XU. Although Mack has moved on, too, he won’t forget.
“Not only did I learn a lesson as a player but I really learned more of a lesson as a coach, dealing with kids,” Mack said. “It’s about competing and being nasty and tough, but it’s also about shaking their hand and doing it the right way.”
Time doesn’t always sway those who hold grudges. Despite the fact that his wife, Christi, was a Flyer, Mack probably won’t get a warm reception the first time he leads XU at UD Arena.
To that end, two things are certain: The Xavier-Dayton animosity will live on, and Mack – a Musketeer through-and-through – doesn’t expect to make any new Dayton friends. The Coffee incident ensured as much.
“I became the villain at Dayton,” Mack said. “And I’ve got no problem with that.”
Nineteen years ago Xavier men’s basketball coach Chris Mack played college hoops for the University of Evansville. And Evansville, on a particular occasion, played Dayto
So begins a story that has followed Mack since February of 1990, on the night he popped a ball in a defender’s face while taking it out of bounds under Dayton’s basket.
That defender was Wes Coffee, and he was twice hit in the face by different Purple Aces within the game’s first 13 minutes.
Only the second hit came from Mack. But it launched a sequence of events that led to a near melee between teams, a contrite Mack, a dazed Coffee, an apology letter, and a reputation – for Mack – as a perpetual villain to some in Dayton.
The incident resurfaced in whispers around the time of Mack’s April 15 introduction as XU’s new coach. After a little digging, it was clear that there’s no love lost for the Evansville-turned-Xavier transfer player in Dayton annals: first because of the Coffee incident, and second for his decades-old allegiance to the archrival Musketeers.
Last week Mack was asked to set the record straight. What happened that night, and why? He was happy to oblige.
Double trouble
The story, Mack said, starts like this: Evansville was playing a heated rivalry game at Dayton, which was known as a pressing team.
“I think our coach, Jim Crews, was bothered by the fact that the guy guarding the in-bounder was always stepping over the line. He’d warn referees and they never seemed to move them back. It’s one of those rules that’s in there but they didn’t really follow it,” Chris Mack said.
“And he had made the point in the shoot-around the day before, that if that kept happening, ‘You just boink the guy in the nose with the ball. I’m tired of this.’ We all sort of chuckled and he said, ‘I’m serious. You’re going to boink him in the nose.’”
(Crews, by the way, was a member of Indiana’s 1976 national championship team, led by Bobby Knight. He spent eight years as Hoosier assistant on Knight’s coaching staff before a successful 17-year run at Evansville.)
The day after the shoot-around, the Purple Aces didn’t play well. They were down by 10 or 12 points, Mack said, when his teammate in-bounded the ball under the Flyers’ hoop.
According to Mack and the Dayton Daily News’ account of the game, Evansville guard Scott Schreffler was nearing the end of the five second count and Coffee, a forward/center, was guarding him.
Schreffler threw the ball into Coffee’s face, the paper said. Coffee was stunned, his lip split. He thought it might have been an accident; he was a 7-footer, and an obstacle to get around.
Ten minutes later, then-sophomore Mack was in Schreffler’s place and needed to in-bound the ball against the Flyers’ press.
“The same guy (Coffee) is on the ball and it’s getting close to a five count, and I looked long and I threw it and hit him right in the nose,” Mack said.
At that point most onlookers thought Mack had thrown the ball twice, a misconception he last week wanted to rectify. He said he only threw it once. Coffee agreed.
Still, many in the arena grew incensed – like Coffee’s teammate, Negele Knight, who took the incident personally, the Dayton Daily News said. Knight ran from the wing of Dayton’s press and chest-bumped Mack.
“That’s all I could do,” Knight told the newspaper. “I knew if I started a fight, I’d get thrown out. So I just bumped him to see if I could get a reaction. He didn’t react.”
Following orders
Coffee was shocked after Mack hit him with the ball and remained, for a while, angry.
“Chris hit me really, really good, square on nose and mouth, and split my lip even further. That’s when people realized it was intentional, and there was an uproar,” said Coffee, who lives in Alabama and recently recounted the story.
He didn’t retaliate.
“Even if I wanted to swing, I didn’t know what direction to swing because my eyes were watering so much,” Coffee said.
The referee called a technical foul on Mack, the Dayton Daily News said. The teams shoved each other and the atmosphere was charged, but no fighting took place.
Mack was the only Purple Ace who tried to shake hands after the Flyers’ 23-point win, according to the Dayton Daily News story.
He told its reporter he was sorry, and that he was trying to throw the ball over Coffee’s head – but under the bottom of the backboard – to beat the five-second count.
Mack last week said the latter comments were meant to protect his coach. He took the game to heart and said the Coffee incident contributed to his decision to transfer.
Crews, who became Army’s head coach in 2002, on Monday supported Mack’s account of the game. It sure was a long time ago, Crews said, and he didn’t remember the first ball thrown at Coffee, but Mack did what he was told.
“He followed orders,” Crews said.
Crews said he warned his players then that Dayton defenders were going to keep crossing the line, per their coach’s instruction. If officials weren’t going to whistle them for violations, UD’s players would continue the behavior, Crews said.
Coffee said he never crossed he end line and went out of bounds. He didn’t have to, he said, because his “arms and legs were long enough” to defend the pass.
Lessons learned
Once he returned to Evansville, the exchange weighed on Mack. He composed an apology to Coffee and slipped it in the mail.
“For him to write the letter … I definitely didn’t expect that. He hoped I would forgive him,” Coffee said. “I thought that was very classy. I never held any ill-will against him.”
The next year Mack transferred to Xavier, where he went on to be a two-time captain. He said he loved Crews as a coach, but “those type of things” led him out of Evansville.
“I felt bad. I want to compete and I want to win but I’m not going to do it that way,” Mack said.
Coffee today wishes only the best for Mack and was congratulatory about his new role at XU. Although Mack has moved on, too, he won’t forget.
“Not only did I learn a lesson as a player but I really learned more of a lesson as a coach, dealing with kids,” Mack said. “It’s about competing and being nasty and tough, but it’s also about shaking their hand and doing it the right way.”
Time doesn’t always sway those who hold grudges. Despite the fact that his wife, Christi, was a Flyer, Mack probably won’t get a warm reception the first time he leads XU at UD Arena.
To that end, two things are certain: The Xavier-Dayton animosity will live on, and Mack – a Musketeer through-and-through – doesn’t expect to make any new Dayton friends. The Coffee incident ensured as much.
“I became the villain at Dayton,” Mack said. “And I’ve got no problem with that.”
Patrick Bateman
Well-known member
Hard to believe that Mack is the coach of the X team that started the brawl (sarcasm). What a classy guy.
david aka the TYZ
Well-known member
After reading that report I don't begrudge Mack anything on the incident. He admitted to it and said he felt bad about it. He was doing what his coach told him to do. Could be one of those things you think isn't that big a deal until you witness it live in person and see a bloodied up player in front of you then you realize you were wrong. He was nineteen or so, we all did stupid things at that age and again he was doing what he was instructed to do. He went out of his way to write a letter of apology and transfered because he didn't agree with his coach's philosophy (I doubt that was the sole reason). As far as the brawl, I had my share of things to say about Mack, but the fact that he threw Lyons off the team after that season and was rumored that he didn't want Holloway back before that season because he knew they were headcases made me give him the benefit of the doubt. I know a former Xavier player and he said he heard that the administration didn't even want to suspend any of the players after the brawl but felt obligated because of the media and some of their donors were giving them heat. I think you can point to Sean Miller as the problem with that team having head cases on it (and the administration for allowing that behavior to go on). He recruited those guys and he came out and said he was proud of his players for being in a fight with UC. He later tried to backpedal those statements but your first reaction is always the real one. Mick's first reaction? He took everyone's jersey and somewhat expected the season to be cancelled. I'm not saying Mack is a squeeky clean guy or even that he doesn't share some blame in the brawl, but I think it's possible his hands were tied with the players that were on his team by the administration and when given a team of headcases that is the type of conduct that ensues. Like I said, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and will see if anything like this continues to happen after Holloway and Lyons and Wells left. So far I don't recall any incidents happening.
From Cronin's pre game presser it sounds like he would really love to keep the game at US Bank and I would agree. But, as a funny side note, I feel like this is about how every Cronin presser goes...
"With all due respect, at the end of the day, it is what it is"
He feels there is too much of a "mob mentality" when it's played on campus and people are on better behavior at US Bank because someone's watching. His analogy was "in high school, if you throw a pretty girl in the room, the boys stop flipping bugers at each other". Classic.
"With all due respect, at the end of the day, it is what it is"
He feels there is too much of a "mob mentality" when it's played on campus and people are on better behavior at US Bank because someone's watching. His analogy was "in high school, if you throw a pretty girl in the room, the boys stop flipping bugers at each other". Classic.
After listening to Cronin's presser and the Xavier presser you can tell there is a massive difference between how big each team feels the game is and where it should be played.
Cronin loves the game at US Bank and Mack desperately wants it on campus.
Christon, when first asked about the game and what it meant said something to the effect "When they brought me here I felt this game meant everything". He had it circled on his proverbial calendar.
What this leaves me wondering, with Eggs recent success in the game, is do we need to treat the game the same way they do...even if there is more in it for them? If we play it down a little and they play it up a lot...who's advantage is it?
Cronin didn't do a lot in his presser to make me feel it was being treated as one of the biggest games of the year...but the Eggs presser was the polar opposite.
It's not tough to understand why Eggs has come in and beat a higher ranked UC squad with some regularity. This is good game for our fans but will only be a good game for our program if we treat the game for what it is...a huge freaking deal to the fans and the city. If we downplay the game...we are screwed...and our program should look elsewhere IMO.
I should add this is why OSU does not want to play us.
Cronin loves the game at US Bank and Mack desperately wants it on campus.
Christon, when first asked about the game and what it meant said something to the effect "When they brought me here I felt this game meant everything". He had it circled on his proverbial calendar.
What this leaves me wondering, with Eggs recent success in the game, is do we need to treat the game the same way they do...even if there is more in it for them? If we play it down a little and they play it up a lot...who's advantage is it?
Cronin didn't do a lot in his presser to make me feel it was being treated as one of the biggest games of the year...but the Eggs presser was the polar opposite.
It's not tough to understand why Eggs has come in and beat a higher ranked UC squad with some regularity. This is good game for our fans but will only be a good game for our program if we treat the game for what it is...a huge freaking deal to the fans and the city. If we downplay the game...we are screwed...and our program should look elsewhere IMO.
I should add this is why OSU does not want to play us.
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UCalum08
Well-known member
Chris Mack is a giant douche. He is a whiny baby just like the rest of the x fan base. They know with the game at us bank its a fair environment and they can't win like that. The writing it clearly on the wall and I hope UC sticks to their guns. XU can suck it and if this game is so important to them they'll play it at us bank.
UCalum08
Well-known member
Exactly. I wish UC would just come out and publicly say that. IMO we are too nice to them. We act like we have to choose our words wisely while X just gets away with murder. I would expose X for the piece of trash they are.
JumpinJack5
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Plus, he has no eyebrows. What kind of freak has no eyebrows?
Home and away campus games was always a bad deal for UC and a great deal for Eggs. It finally caught up to us. Home, home, and away would have been a more fair deal for UC but a neutral site is at least a step in the right direction for OUR program. It's time to even the stakes. The city doesn't lose and the fans still get to go to the game.
Would you take a football away, away, home against OSU. Hell yes. Would you take an every year neutral site? Hell yes. Would you take an every year neutral site in BB? Hell yes. Would you take an away, away, home? Hell no.
This game is a GREAT game for the city and fans. The stakes are far from even for the programs involved IMO.
It's a PR nightmare at this point that could have been handled long ago.