I'm just trying to figure out who exactly said we should be in the top ten to start the season. Only seeing people saying there is no way we should, making up arguments in their own. No one here has said that. We could move into the top ten throughout the season if we play well, but starsting there will not be the case.
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Way-too-early disparity
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I'm just trying to figure out who exactly said we should be in the top ten to start the season. Only seeing people saying there is no way we should, making up arguments in their own. No one here has said that. We could move into the top ten throughout the season if we play well, but starsting there will not be the case.
UCBearcats
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I'm just trying to figure out who exactly said we should be in the top ten to start the season. Only seeing people saying there is no way we should, making up arguments in their own. No one here has said that. We could move into the top ten throughout the season if we play well, but starsting there will not be the case.
Read the second post on this thread
cincyguy13
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Some have us around 15. Some put us lower. That's why I say it isn't a big deal. It's not ESPN as a whole. The article was probably done by one guy. Some people won't think that high of us. That's ok. If we start anywhere in the top 25 and win we will have plenty of chances to move upI was pretty surprised to see us so low in the rankings. We lost two guys, that's it. From a team that was 11-19 pretty much all year long. We lost Troy who obviously was great at protecting the ball but he wasn't an elite scorer by any means and Kevin Hobson who was a great defender, but Cumberland offensive ability will make that a non issue. Another year of development for everyone on our team, just hard to say we are gonna regress and that's what ESPN did. I wouldn't say start us in the top ten but as was said before around 15 seems to be much more fitting.
jacobkdoyle
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I'm just trying to figure out who exactly said we should be in the top ten to start the season. Only seeing people saying there is no way we should, making up arguments in their own. No one here has said that. We could move into the top ten throughout the season if we play well, but starsting there will not be the case.
I'm not saying anyone put us in the Top 10. I'm just making a comment.
The unfortunate thing about early season/pre-season rankings and their impact on our Cats is the unfavorable fact that's it's tough to move up in these rankings when we play in the AAC.
It seemed like every time we took a loss this past season we got hammered in the polls, but every time we won we seemed to get passed over for bigger conference foe.
So while I try not to get wrapped up in the Coaches or AP poll, I still get a little bent out of shape when I see they have us around 20-25 in these preseason polls.
It seemed like every time we took a loss this past season we got hammered in the polls, but every time we won we seemed to get passed over for bigger conference foe.
So while I try not to get wrapped up in the Coaches or AP poll, I still get a little bent out of shape when I see they have us around 20-25 in these preseason polls.
GarradJ21
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I'm trying to figure out who the heck is Kevin Hobson?
2 posts have already said in this thread that national folks take notice. I don't expect it. I love Jay bilas but after the national title game he complimented Gonzaga. But he also said I'm not sure if they'll ever make it back. Which is actually not really mean. Did Illinois make it back? It doesn't sound like National media are sold on them being consistent. We just need to take care of business and keep building. Hopefully the year after next will not be a rebuild as we expect. Jacob Evans might be still here as a fourth-year starterKeep in mind that by November, Cane will have been practicing with the team for over a year. The team has been building chemistry with Cane the entire past season. It will certainly be different from Troy running the point, but I'm not too sure I'm worried about overall chemistry. I don't expect Williams, Moore, or Nsoseme to play much next year, so everyone on the court will have been together for a little while now.
Next year needs to be an eye-opening year for the national folks. Analysts, committee voters, recruits, etc. need to take notice. I'm talking Top 10. Like you said, Clark and Washington leaving after next year is a big worry. Evans may declare for the draft after next season, too. I think it's fair to think 2018-19 will be a bit of a rebuilding/reloading year. For that to go over smoothly, we've got to capitalize on next year, so that we're able to bring in solid recruits/transfers for 2018/2019, and continue momentum.
cincyguy13
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2 posts have already said in this thread that national folks take notice. I don't expect it. I love Jay bilas but after the national title game he complimented Gonzaga. But he also said I'm not sure if they'll ever make it back. Which is actually not really mean. Did Illinois make it back? It doesn't sound like National media are sold on them being consistent. We just need to take care of business and keep building. Hopefully the year after next will not be a rebuild as we expect. Jacob Evans might be still here as a fourth-year starter
I agree with you about continuing to build. Can't miss on recruiting classes. I don't mind this coming class, seems like he is going for some role guys beside Williams. Which is fine if they can fill those roles but if they can't do anything like some players we have seen in the past, it could hurt the program
Read the second post on this thread
I did. You should too. It says top ten all time, not top ten next season and he is talking in terms of our basketball program not our current team.
The unfortunate thing about early season/pre-season rankings and their impact on our Cats is the unfavorable fact that's it's tough to move up in these rankings when we play in the AAC.
It seemed like every time we took a loss this past season we got hammered in the polls, but every time we won we seemed to get passed over for bigger conference foe.
So while I try not to get wrapped up in the Coaches or AP poll, I still get a little bent out of shape when I see they have us around 20-25 in these preseason polls.
Exactly. People say starting position doesn't matter but sure it does
david aka the TYZ
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Caupain wasn't dynamic, but he looked for his teammates first, he didn't turn the ball over and team chemistry was though the roof with him handling things. And KJ was the glue to a very good defense. They will be missed more than some people realize. Giving Cumberland more minutes can only be a good thing. Cane is the unknown. On the surface he is a scorer but my worst fears are he is a me first player and team chemistry and could take a hit. With all this said, I expect uc to be good, but to say they'll be better automatically without seeing them on the court is a little short sighted in my opinion. Considering they were given the 22 seed in the tourney and did nothing to show that was low, I don't see how expecting better than 20 next year is reasonable. Too many unknowns. Preseason rankings aren't based on possibilities and potential.
Caupain wasn't dynamic, but he looked for his teammates first, he didn't turn the ball over and team chemistry was though the roof with him handling things. And KJ was the glue to a very good defense. They will be missed more than some people realize. Giving Cumberland more minutes can only be a good thing. Cane is the unknown. On the surface he is a scorer but my worst fears are he is a me first player and team chemistry and could take a hit. With all this said, I expect uc to be good, but to say they'll be better automatically without seeing them on the court is a little short sighted in my opinion. Considering they were given the 22 seed in the tourney and did nothing to show that was low, I don't see how expecting better than 20 next year is reasonable. Too many unknowns. Preseason rankings aren't based on possibilities and potential.
To each their own I suppose. Saying we didn't prove we were better than 22 because we didn't beat a top 10 is pretty fun though. And yes Caupain was a great team player, and we all know what KJ did defensively. But to say we won't be better next year.. Cumberland offensive output will outweigh KJs defensive input by far. And this is coming from a big KJ supporter. Cane is our biggest question mark, what will he be for us next year. I truly believe he is going to be a great leader for our team, not some selfish ball hog. This isn't sacred heart, he is surronded by scorers. But in no way are we not deserving of a top 20 pre season ranking.
david aka the TYZ
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To each their own I suppose. Saying we didn't prove we were better than 22 because we didn't beat a top 10 is pretty fun though. And yes Caupain was a great team player, and we all know what KJ did defensively. But to say we won't be better next year.. Cumberland offensive output will outweigh KJs defensive input by far. And this is coming from a big KJ supporter. Cane is our biggest question mark, what will he be for us next year. I truly believe he is going to be a great leader for our team, not some selfish ball hog. This isn't sacred heart, he is surronded by scorers. But in no way are we not deserving of a top 20 pre season ranking.
First of all I didn't say we wouldn't be better. I said I think it's short sighted to expect it and gave my reasons why. To rank us higher preseason next year than we finished this past year (although I guess we were ranked in the teens in the AP poll) suggests that blindly next year's team is better before seeing it play. And as I said there are many unknowns. As far as not beating a top ten team, I agree but of the teams ranked ahead of us, including UCLA, we went 2-4. 1 point win vs. an at the time struggling 5 seed Iowa state team, a 2 point home win and 2 decisive losses vs. 6 seed SMU, a double digits loss at Butler and a double digit loss to UCLA. So where exactly did we show we were better than our seed?
I'm not suggesting we'll be bad, but there's a fine line between close wins and close losses as the past two seasons show. I need to see this team play before I say they're better than last years. If Cane comes in and plays uunselfish and Mick let's this team loose on offense then I could easily see us being better. I just don't assume it.
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Caupain wasn't dynamic, but he looked for his teammates first, he didn't turn the ball over and team chemistry was though the roof with him handling things. And KJ was the glue to a very good defense. They will be missed more than some people realize. Giving Cumberland more minutes can only be a good thing. Cane is the unknown. On the surface he is a scorer but my worst fears are he is a me first player and team chemistry and could take a hit. With all this said, I expect uc to be good, but to say they'll be better automatically without seeing them on the court is a little short sighted in my opinion. Considering they were given the 22 seed in the tourney and did nothing to show that was low, I don't see how expecting better than 20 next year is reasonable. Too many unknowns. Preseason rankings aren't based on possibilities and potential.
It could be a little short sighted but then again I think most have taken into consideration what we have leaving and what we have coming in. They haven't lost sight of what we lose but just have more optimism about what we have replacing them.
This could be the first time in a long time where we have all the traditional positions covered with starters who can play ball on offense. In fact, we may not see it again any time soon with the departure of Clark and Washington. This is the type of team many fans have been hoping for for a long time. We will finally see what Cronin can do with a starting team filled with skill and scoring ability.
I am excited for that reason and I think we will have more potential in March because of it. We may stumble a bit out of the blocks trying to find chemistry and continuity but Cronin will get these guys to learn what he wants them to do. He won't allow one player to be selfish IMO...with all the options we have. He won't accept careless turnovers from anyone and he can still use the bench to make a point. He will still demand D, deflections and effort. He's not going to abandon his coaching style. No player will be allowed to do whatever they want...if they want to play.
david aka the TYZ
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My only point on Broome is I'm going to wait and see. My only knowledge of him is what I saw in a meaningless scrimmage. And while he showed impressive street ball type skills, I also saw him put his head down and dribble around the defense the first two times he had the ball and not pass it and put up bad shots. He scored 22 points a game at sacred heart. For all we know KJ could've scored 20 points a game getting all the shots at sacred heart. Now I do realize he's much better than KJ from an offensive skill set but that's not my point. Gelawn guyn left here and put up close to 20 at a small school. Broome had more turnovers than assists. If he was a one-man arsenal on his team, defenses would've double and triple teamed him and a smart point guard would find an open shooter. Go to any small school and there's a couple kids on the bench that can hit an open shot. I want my point guard running the show and setting teammates up. He certainly has the ball skills to be aggressive and pull defenders in. So I'll wait and see what he does with that before I declare him better than anybody. And no, Mick won't tolerate bad turnovers or selfish ball players. We saw that with Kyle Washington last year. And players like JDIII and Mormon had offensive skills and couldn't see the court. Cause they were selfish. Now I'm not comparing him to them. I think Cane will be a good player here, but my expectations are tempered until I see him play Mick ball. And while I ecstatic to see what Cumberland will bring next year, realistically he was probably averaging 20-25 minutes a game at the end of the year. At most hell get 32, but I'm guessing closer to 30. So his production won't be that much of an increase from what we saw the last month of the season.
Now before everybody thinks I'm being a Debbie downer, I'm really just playing devils advocate here. I'm really excited about the prospects of next season. I think Clark will be special, Kyle I hope has a better focus and can reel himself in. He's the type of player that wants to get better and I trust he will. Jacob needs to learn to shorten his dribbling and be more aggressive. I think he lost confidence when he got a buzzer beater shot stuffed down his throat early in the year. But he tries to much side to side moves when he should just attack. Cumberland I can't wait to see mature, I can't wait to see attack the rim, I can't wait to see his swagger on the court. So the last position is pg. We need a guy to not turn the ball over and set these other guys up to score. Personally I'd love to see what Jenifer could do running the show. Cane to me is a bonus. But he is a question mark. And as I said above, my biggest fear is he is more selfish and could effect team chemistry. I didn't say he would, just said my biggest fear. Again devils advocate.
Now before everybody thinks I'm being a Debbie downer, I'm really just playing devils advocate here. I'm really excited about the prospects of next season. I think Clark will be special, Kyle I hope has a better focus and can reel himself in. He's the type of player that wants to get better and I trust he will. Jacob needs to learn to shorten his dribbling and be more aggressive. I think he lost confidence when he got a buzzer beater shot stuffed down his throat early in the year. But he tries to much side to side moves when he should just attack. Cumberland I can't wait to see mature, I can't wait to see attack the rim, I can't wait to see his swagger on the court. So the last position is pg. We need a guy to not turn the ball over and set these other guys up to score. Personally I'd love to see what Jenifer could do running the show. Cane to me is a bonus. But he is a question mark. And as I said above, my biggest fear is he is more selfish and could effect team chemistry. I didn't say he would, just said my biggest fear. Again devils advocate.
GarradJ21
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Haha.. I love the ? mark Cane comments. It's understandable though. Can't wait for you all to see in November.
My only point on Broome is I'm going to wait and see. My only knowledge of him is what I saw in a meaningless scrimmage. And while he showed impressive street ball type skills, I also saw him put his head down and dribble around the defense the first two times he had the ball and not pass it and put up bad shots. He scored 22 points a game at sacred heart. For all we know KJ could've scored 20 points a game getting all the shots at sacred heart. Now I do realize he's much better than KJ from an offensive skill set but that's not my point. Gelawn guyn left here and put up close to 20 at a small school. Broome had more turnovers than assists. If he was a one-man arsenal on his team, defenses would've double and triple teamed him and a smart point guard would find an open shooter. Go to any small school and there's a couple kids on the bench that can hit an open shot. I want my point guard running the show and setting teammates up. He certainly has the ball skills to be aggressive and pull defenders in. So I'll wait and see what he does with that before I declare him better than anybody. And no, Mick won't tolerate bad turnovers or selfish ball players. We saw that with Kyle Washington last year. And players like JDIII and Mormon had offensive skills and couldn't see the court. Cause they were selfish. Now I'm not comparing him to them. I think Cane will be a good player here, but my expectations are tempered until I see him play Mick ball. And while I ecstatic to see what Cumberland will bring next year, realistically he was probably averaging 20-25 minutes a game at the end of the year. At most hell get 32, but I'm guessing closer to 30. So his production won't be that much of an increase from what we saw the last month of the season.
Now before everybody thinks I'm being a Debbie downer, I'm really just playing devils advocate here. I'm really excited about the prospects of next season. I think Clark will be special, Kyle I hope has a better focus and can reel himself in. He's the type of player that wants to get better and I trust he will. Jacob needs to learn to shorten his dribbling and be more aggressive. I think he lost confidence when he got a buzzer beater shot stuffed down his throat early in the year. But he tries to much side to side moves when he should just attack. Cumberland I can't wait to see mature, I can't wait to see attack the rim, I can't wait to see his swagger on the court. So the last position is pg. We need a guy to not turn the ball over and set these other guys up to score. Personally I'd love to see what Jenifer could do running the show. Cane to me is a bonus. But he is a question mark. And as I said above, my biggest fear is he is more selfish and could effect team chemistry. I didn't say he would, just said my biggest fear. Again devils advocate.
I would expect Cumberland to improve even on late season numbers simply by virtue of being more confident that he is a top option. Even if he did not improve over the last month of the season (which would include about 9 games) I would be very happy with that type of production.
Last 9 games he played about 25 minutes and averaged around 11.5 PPG. Carry that out to 30-32 minutes and he would be around 14-15 PPG. I think we would all take that in his sophomore campaign given we will have 4 other scoring options on the court.
The jury is out on Broome and how our chemistry will look but I don't see Cronin letting selfishness become an issue for any player. Not when we have so many good options to score. If he is selfish I could see Cronin using Jenifer to prove a point. That could be Jenifer's ticket to more playing time if he focuses on pushing pace, low turnover, and distributing rather than looking to be a score first PG.
Either way...we have options and the bench will always be a powerful tool in Cronin's arsenal.
We have 4-5 guys who have legit potential for 15 PPG. I don't see Clark being one of them unless he stops deferring to the other players and becomes the beast that he is capable of being. It will depend on what Cronin says to him in the off season and how Gary responds. It will also depend on Gary's aspirations and how much he is driven to achieve them. If he wants to play in the league he needs to work hard in the off season to develop his ball skills a little more (driving/slashing from the perimeter) and then demand the ball on offense or at least be a little more like Washington and optimize his touches when he gets them.
Gary is very good at assisting other players but I would rather see him kick it out just a little less when he has the ball in the lane. He is very efficient when he has the ball close to the bucket and we could use him creating more foul trouble for the opponent. If Gary comes out aggressive next year it will be very hard to predict our leading scorer.
It's a nice problem to have when you have 5 guys capable of 15 PPG. We will be awesome if they all play team ball!
Gary is very good at assisting other players but I would rather see him kick it out just a little less when he has the ball in the lane. He is very efficient when he has the ball close to the bucket and we could use him creating more foul trouble for the opponent. If Gary comes out aggressive next year it will be very hard to predict our leading scorer.
It's a nice problem to have when you have 5 guys capable of 15 PPG. We will be awesome if they all play team ball!
jacobkdoyle
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I would expect Cumberland to improve even on late season numbers simply by virtue of being more confident that he is a top option. Even if he did not improve over the last month of the season (which would include about 9 games) I would be very happy with that type of production.
Last 9 games he played about 25 minutes and averaged around 11.5 PPG. Carry that out to 30-32 minutes and he would be around 14-15 PPG. I think we would all take that in his sophomore campaign given we will have 4 other scoring options on the court.
The jury is out on Broome and how our chemistry will look but I don't see Cronin letting selfishness become an issue for any player. Not when we have so many good options to score. If he is selfish I could see Cronin using Jenifer to prove a point. That could be Jenifer's ticket to more playing time if he focuses on pushing pace, low turnover, and distributing rather than looking to be a score first PG.
Either way...we have options and the bench will always be a powerful tool in Cronin's arsenal.
If Broome wanted to be selfish he would've stayed at Sacred Heart and dropped 30 a game.
If Broome wanted to be selfish he would've stayed at Sacred Heart and dropped 30 a game.
So true...lol!
Cane researching on internet..."Where can I transfer and score 30PPG?"
Cronin puts out fake news story about up tempo game plan
Cane..."Cincinnati is where I need to be"
Cronin..."Hell yeeessss...lmfao...I'm not telling him I meant defense!"