Xavier

[Alum2013]

Why is everyone acting like losing by 7 is the worst thing in the world when playing at Xavier? We get shit on by them almost every time we play at Xavier.

We lost by 13, 10, 17, and 23 the last 4 times we lost at their place or neutral floor. There has only been one time in the last 10 years we didn't lose by less than 10 points.

 

[justinhub2003]

Why is everyone acting like losing by 7 is the worst thing in the world when playing at Xavier? We get shit on by them almost every time we play at Xavier.

We lost by 13, 10, 17, and 23 the last 4 times we lost at their place or neutral floor. There has only been one time in the last 10 years we didn't lose by less than 10 points.

To me, it felt bigger than a 7 point loss.


I didn't expect to beat Xavier. So it didn't bum me out nearly as much. I never expect to win in cintas. But i did hold out hope that Brannen would break the curse.

 

[TheRealMick]

I have to admit we hit our open shots in 1st we win by 20. Still need shooters.

 

[waterhead]

You’re missing my entire point.

We know two things: our guards can’t guard

And our big is only good at guarding around the rim.

So why we we letting a non shooting threat like tyrique jones bring our 7 footer out to where he is least affecting especially when we already know his defiencies on defense.


I just want to be clear of what your trying to say... you’re saying Chris Vogt is a great defender ? And that we utilized him perfectly ?

You have missed more points than anyone I can recall in the recent past. You either get so worked up about your own arguments or you miss the point being made by someone else or you are just being intentionally disingenuous.

So I want to be clear which you are trying to do? It seems like in about every other response of yours there is a straw man argument waiting. If you want a better understanding of what argument others are making...go back and re-read their posts (but meditate for an hour first or take a Xanax) and then try to do a better job of making an accurate assessment of other's opinions rather than blatantly exaggerating them or completely whiffing on the points being made

 

[justinhub2003]

You have missed more points than anyone I can recall in the recent past. You either get so worked up about your own arguments or you miss the point being made by someone else or you are just being intentionally disingenuous.

So I want to be clear which you are trying to do? It seems like in about every other response of yours there is a straw man argument waiting. If you want a better understanding of what argument others are making...go back and re-read their posts (but meditate for an hour first or take a Xanax) and then try to do a better job of making an accurate assessment of other's opinions rather than blatantly exaggerating them or completely whiffing on the points being made

We are talking about Chris Vogt’s strengths and weaknesses defensively.

I’m not anti Vogt.

I’m just saying his defense is only good around the rim. He should never leave the paint, especially in a league where there isn’t a defensive 3 seconds.

People absolutely agree that this is the case, but they’d rather argue with me about it.

I don’t care.


I can say this. We’ve played 4 teams that are ranked 105 and higher and in those 4 games, in the 2nd half the Brannen lead Bearcats defense has allowed 45, 43, 46 & 41

We are 1-3 in those games. And 3 out of 4 of those games we were actually leading at half and the one where we weren’t we were only down 3

The defense sucks. Especially in the 2nd half against good teams, it sucks for a multitude of reasons. One being we can’t guard one on one and two our big man isn’t staying in the paint to at least have our guards funnel their man into.


Literally nothing I’ve said I’ve not backed up with some kind of stat.

 

[Alum2013]

To me, it felt bigger than a 7 point loss.


I didn't expect to beat Xavier. So it didn't bum me out nearly as much. I never expect to win in cintas. But i did hold out hope that Brannen would break the curse.

I mean if the Cumberlands didn't both shit down their legs the whole game we probably blow them out.

I feel like some people would have felt better if it was just a typical X beatdown from start to finish rather than looking good, keeping it close, having a chance, and then not closing it out.

Before the game people were hoping it wasn't a blowout by halftime like it has been more times than not lately.

 

[waterhead]

We are talking about Chris Vogt’s strengths and weaknesses defensively.

I’m not anti Vogt.

I’m just saying his defense is only good around the rim. He should never leave the paint, especially in a league where there isn’t a defensive 3 seconds.

People absolutely agree that this is the case, but they’d rather argue with me about it.

I don’t care.


I can say this. We’ve played 4 teams that are ranked 105 and higher and in those 4 games, in the 2nd half the Brannen lead Bearcats defense has allowed 45, 43, 46 & 41

We are 1-3 in those games. And 3 out of 4 of those games we were actually leading at half and the one where we weren’t we were only down 3

The defense sucks. Especially in the 2nd half against good teams, it sucks for a multitude of reasons. One being we can’t guard one on one and two our big man isn’t staying in the paint to at least have our guards funnel their man into.


Literally nothing I’ve said I’ve not backed up with some kind of stat.

What I have heard is that most people agree that he is a pretty good paint defender and nobody is suggesting he will be very effective on/towards the perimeter. I have heard opinions that he perhaps has not been abused as badly as some others have insinuated but that's about as far as it's gone. I think Cincrulz11 was making a point that a lot of that "abuse" falls on the guards getting beat. Or that we aren't playing the PnR right or the screens and that not ALL of that should fall on Vogt.

I think most everyone agrees but semantics like "abused" and "awful defender" or "great defender" or "using him perfectly" are all words that get in the way of everyone agreeing on the same thing. Also, saying Vogt is better for the team than Diara overall is not a statement about his defense or offense or Diara's.

 

[justinhub2003]

What I have heard is that most people agree that he is a pretty good paint defender and nobody is suggesting he will be very effective on/towards the perimeter. I have heard opinions that he perhaps has not been abused as badly as some others have insinuated but that's about as far as it's gone. I think Cincrulz11 was making a point that a lot of that "abuse" falls on the guards getting beat. Or that we aren't playing the PnR right or the screens and that not ALL of that should fall on Vogt.

I think most everyone agrees but semantics like "abused" and "awful defender" or "great defender" or "using him perfectly" are all words that get in the way of everyone agreeing on the same thing. Also, saying Vogt is better for the team than Diara overall is not a statement about his defense or offense or Diara's.

People are missing that I feel it’s coaching that Is failing Vogt. When I say Vogt is being abused, it doesn’t mean he didn’t do his job. It means the coaching staff didn’t put him in a position where he can be successful.

Chris Vogt can’t help that the defense he has been taught teaches him to follow a non shooting big like tyrique to the perimeter.

Xavier in general can’t shoot. But they have 4 guys who can get to the rim and he we are letting Xavier’s plays pull our big out of the most effective area.

Travis Steele out coached us.

 

[cincrulz11]

maybe you should tweet at brannen to resign again.

 

[justinhub2003]

maybe you should tweet at brannen to resign again.

Stalker

 

[waterhead]

People are missing that I feel it’s coaching that Is failing Vogt. When I say Vogt is being abused, it doesn’t mean he didn’t do his job. It means the coaching staff didn’t put him in a position where he can be successful.

Chris Vogt can’t help that the defense he has been taught teaches him to follow a non shooting big like tyrique to the perimeter.

Xavier in general can’t shoot. But they have 4 guys who can get to the rim and he we are letting Xavier’s plays pull our big out of the most effective area.

Travis Steele out coached us.

Hell I can agree we shouldn't follow a big who can't shoot out of the paint with Vogt. But someone else then has to help on the pick or screen. Who leaves their man to help do that while Vogt stays in the paint? And what happens when their man is left open for 3?

I have heard you calling for a 1 man zone type of scenario (I think) where we hide/keep Vogt in the paint. I am not trying to misrepresent your argument just trying to understand how it would work?

 

[justinhub2003]

Hell I can agree we shouldn't follow a big who can't shoot out of the paint with Vogt. But someone else then has to help on the pick or screen. Who leaves their man to help do that while Vogt stays in the paint? And what happens when their man is left open for 3?

I have heard you calling for a 1 man zone type of scenario (I think) where we hide/keep Vogt in the paint. I am not trying to misrepresent your argument just trying to understand how it would work?

You mean leaving Goodin open for a 3 ?

Or do you mean Chris Vogt covering him while he shoots the 3?

Goodin is a trash 3 point shooter. Let him take it.

Chris Vogt statistically can’t cover jump shooters well any way. It’s his weakest defensive position.

 

[justinhub2003]

I don’t get paid the big bucks to coach defense. John Brannen does.

Like l pointed out with facts, our 2nd half defense in games against top 105 teams is atrocious.

People called mick stubborn for sticking with the Matchup zone when it failed us in certain games. I think it’s fail to call CJB the same if he doesn’t figure out a better second half defense.

 

[waterhead]

You mean leaving Goodin open for a 3 ?

Or do you mean Chris Vogt covering him while he shoots the 3?

Goodin is a trash 3 point shooter. Let him take it.

Chris Vogt statistically can’t cover jump shooters well any way. It’s his weakest defensive position.

All I asked is what defensive scheme are you coming up with to leave Vogt in the paint??? I OBVIOUSLY said Vogt would not be the guy covering the perimeter because YOU were the one that said it can't happen. Give me your plan...

 

[waterhead]

I don’t get paid the big bucks to coach defense. John Brannen does.

Like l pointed out with facts, our 2nd half defense in games against top 105 teams is atrocious.

People called mick stubborn for sticking with the Matchup zone when it failed us in certain games. I think it’s fail to call CJB the same if he doesn’t figure out a better second half defense.

Is that your answer? Underwhelming...

 

[waterhead]

Is that your answer? Underwhelming...

Is your answer whoever is on Goodin to leave their man? I am just trying to figure this out...

 

[TheLongHaul]

You mean leaving Goodin open for a 3 ?

Or do you mean Chris Vogt covering him while he shoots the 3?

Goodin is a trash 3 point shooter. Let him take it.

Chris Vogt statistically can’t cover jump shooters well any way. It’s his weakest defensive position.

Marshall was a trash 3 point shooter too. You saw what that got us.

 

[TheLongHaul]

You mean leaving Goodin open for a 3 ?

Or do you mean Chris Vogt covering him while he shoots the 3?

Goodin is a trash 3 point shooter. Let him take it.

Chris Vogt statistically can’t cover jump shooters well any way. It’s his weakest defensive position.

Is that not every big mans weakest defensive position? It'd be kind of odd if it wasn't.

 

[justinhub2003]

Is that not every big mans weakest defensive position? It'd be kind of odd if it wasn't.

Vogt is the worst big man defender we’ve had at cincinnati in the synergy era.

So while yes. Bigs aren’t good at guarding jump shooters, I’ll ask you to go lookup nysier Brooks defense on a Conner frankamp game winning jumper our to the 3 point line. It was pretty damn amazing and couldn’t have done any better with out blocking the shot.

As for a solution... I think against teams who can shoot like Xavier, you might want to bust out a 2-3 zone. Make a team who shoots 27% on the year beat us from from 3 and live with results.

This team can’t defend. And Brannen’s defense relies on guys being able to defend in space. But they clearly can’t, so why have we not seen an adjustment.

Lolol I’m literally asking for the staff to make adjustments and people are debating with me about it as if the team hasn’t allowed 40+ points in the 2nd half to every good team we’ve played.

That’s a clear as day pattern. So find a solution and fix it.

 

[justinhub2003]

Is your answer whoever is on Goodin to leave their man? I am just trying to figure this out...

I’d rather leave Goodin yes. Bait him into an inefficient jumper or let him drive into the paint where a 7 footer is waiting on him.

I guess I’m just used to our bigs being a bit more athletic.


Again, I’m not dissing Vogt. I just want our defense to be put in spots where they can succeed. Brannen May have to turn these guys into a 2nd half zone team.


But clearly, you are putting a ton of effort into defending this defense. So I’m assuming you’re happy with it. I’m glad it works for you. To me it doesn’t.

Like you won’t get a sticker for defending the program on this one. The defense sucks against good teams especially in the 2nd half. I’ve showed both vogts numbers, I showed the points we’ve allowed in the 2nd half and I’ve showed that it hasn’t gotten better.

I’m asking for the guy who said this was a defensive team all preseason to show me why he said that.