Xavier

[TheLongHaul]

We had one loss to a team outside the kenpom top 50 last year. We weren't a great team, but last year was expected to be a down year, this year was supposed to be the we'd be great. Cronin consistently was able to win with teams like this and consistently beat bad teams.

We don't have a bad loss so far this year. But we have two OT wins and one one point win against teams below 150 kenpom. It doesn't inspire confidence that we are going to win once we start playing good teams (the stretch of our next four games).

Diarra was at least +6 in the first half versus Xavier. He came in and we went on a run that was largely because of him (his defense and rebounding). He's our best defensive player and best rebounder.

It's hard to explain how hard I'm laughing at this one.

Why and when did anyone think this year was the year we were going to be great. I think a lot of people had concerns this was going to be probably an average at best year. Even with Cronin it would have been the same as last year: ride Cumberland as far as possible. Maybe Brooks would have helped, but I don't think one recruit who is now transferring because he can't get PT at Nebraska and a pg who did nothing his freshman year and isn't garnering PT at St Mary's was going to be a game changer.

As I mentioned this year was going to go as Cumberland goes, and so far he has been shit. Maybe it's injury, I don't know, but every time Brannen has isolated him he has either turned it over or forced a bad shot. He simply can't get by anyone this year and his shot is broke. The best coach in the world wouldn't be winning with Cumberland playing the way he is.

 

[TheLongHaul]

There are people on this roster who cant play at this level... Thats on Mick. Talent not being there is on Mick. Brannen needs time to get talent.

Tre Scott was a complete disaster yesterday. Jarron cant continue getting a pass. If hes hurt then sit. He had multiple good looks and threw up straight bricks.

Why didnt Brannen put length on Naji? Thats the one thing Tre could provide

There were quite a few times Trey was on Naji, and Trey got abused. Trey has gotten abused horribly in the two top 25 games this year. That's your 5th year senior. Agree completely on the first paragraph, the recruiting had been dreadful for a few years now.

 

[cincrulz11]

There were quite a few times Trey was on Naji, and Trey got abused. Trey has gotten abused horribly in the two top 25 games this year. That's your 5th year senior. Agree completely on the first paragraph, the recruiting had been dreadful for a few years now.

Scott can’t play man defense. Even against bad players he can’t stay in front of them, he’s got no shot vs somebody good.


Scott has been a bigger disappointment than jarron, at least jarron is hurt.

 

[MDW79]

Diarra gave excellent minutes last night and has the potential to be a great player.

Note to self: Skyblade knows nothing about basketball.

 

[justinhub2003]

Note to self: Skyblade knows nothing about basketball.

Thing Is... he does have all kinds of potential. Just a matter of if he is able to reach it.

He can shoot, he can run, he can jump


What he lacks is real basketball experience and a feel for the game. It takes time for that stuff to happen.

This is literally his 2nd year of playing D1 basketball. The game is moving too fast for him.

Just like it moved too fast for Keith Williams his freshmen year.

Rule of thumb is to always give big men 2 full seasons of playing before you can a judgement on them

 

[justinhub2003]

I mean I hope to god we don’t run him off because we have zero bigs committed.

And Eason is not a lock.

 

[justinhub2003]

As for Vogt, I just think he needs to be a 1 man zone. And that he doesn’t leave the paint at all. Especially against bigs like tyrique Jones who can’t shoot.

They drug him out of the paint and he is one of the slowest D1 players I have ever seen.

He has zero ability as a help defender.


He needs to just stay in the paint. There isn’t s a defensive 3 seconds so literally just stand at the rim

 

[waterhead]

Imagine blaming brannen for Cumberland missing all his shots and turning the ball over all the time.


Brannen is putting the ball in Cumberland’s hands, Cumberland just isn’t producing. He’s basically playing on 1 leg, but Cumberland is being put in a spot to succeed.


When we came into last season we all said Cumberland would have to play like SK for us to make the tournament. He did and we made it.


It’s the same exact scenario this year. Only Cumberland is playing at the lowest level of his career.


He has to turn it around for us to save this season. There was nobody else left in the program to get the job done. This is what happens when you build entire teams around 1 guy and then that player gets hurt.

Really think we’re using him wrong right now. It’s probably time to just let him run in Brannen offense and skip the iso. He’s struggling while Williams is thriving. Keith is using the system to his advantage and Cumberland is not.

 

[waterhead]

As for Vogt, I just think he needs to be a 1 man zone. And that he doesn’t leave the paint at all. Especially against bigs like tyrique Jones who can’t shoot.

They drug him out of the paint and he is one of the slowest D1 players I have ever seen.

He has zero ability as a help defender.


He needs to just stay in the paint. There isn’t s a defensive 3 seconds so literally just stand at the rim

Vogt is not the problem. He was scored on but they were not easy points. He’s not in a position to foul with Sorolla out.

 

[UCats329]

Scott can’t play man defense. Even against bad players he can’t stay in front of them, he’s got no shot vs somebody good.


Scott has been a bigger disappointment than jarron, at least jarron is hurt.

None of these guys can play man to man defense, because they've all been playing zone. Brannen's insistence that they play man is ******* ridiculous because it's not even accomplishing what it's supposed to--which is to deny jump shooters--while they're also giving up an ungodly number of wide open layups.

Brannen doesn't have a clue.

 

[Jon Rycek]

Was talking about everything, not just the shootout. Also why did you stop at the last 8?

I mean we were terrible when Mick took over, why wouldn’t you.

 

[cincyalum2014]

As for Vogt, I just think he needs to be a 1 man zone. And that he doesn’t leave the paint at all. Especially against bigs like tyrique Jones who can’t shoot.

They drug him out of the paint and he is one of the slowest D1 players I have ever seen.

He has zero ability as a help defender.


He needs to just stay in the paint. There isn’t s a defensive 3 seconds so literally just stand at the rim

Vogt was pretty much handicapped, he had to limit how aggressive he was due to Sorolla being out.... Vogt did have the worst +/- of the game for UC, but the team as a whole played like shit.... Trevon Scott just standing at the top of key holding the ball out in front of him and Naji just slapping it away leading to a dunk... Jaevin getting the ball stripped from him numerous times... Jarron had 4 turnovers on lazy passes... Xavier punched UC in the mouth

 

[cincyguy13]

We had one loss to a team outside the kenpom top 50 last year. We weren't a great team, but last year was expected to be a down year, this year was supposed to be the we'd be great. Cronin consistently was able to win with teams like this and consistently beat bad teams.

We don't have a bad loss so far this year. But we have two OT wins and one one point win against teams below 150 kenpom. It doesn't inspire confidence that we are going to win once we start playing good teams (the stretch of our next four games).

Diarra was at least +6 in the first half versus Xavier. He came in and we went on a run that was largely because of him (his defense and rebounding). He's our best defensive player and best rebounder.

The “Diarra is good” might be the worst take on this board. He has potential but there are a million players with “potential”. Potential does nothing if you never reach it. Ask Shaq Thomas or any of the othe players that had “potential”.

 

[cincyguy13]

Thing Is... he does have all kinds of potential. Just a matter of if he is able to reach it.

He can shoot, he can run, he can jump


What he lacks is real basketball experience and a feel for the game. It takes time for that stuff to happen.

This is literally his 2nd year of playing D1 basketball. The game is moving too fast for him.

Just like it moved too fast for Keith Williams his freshmen year.

Rule of thumb is to always give big men 2 full seasons of playing before you can a judgement on them

Potential is great. Hope he reaches it. But right now he isn’t good at basketball. You can just watch him and see that.

 

[skyblade]

Vogt was pretty much handicapped, he had to limit how aggressive he was due to Sorolla being out.... Vogt did have the worst +/- of the game for UC, but the team as a whole played like shit.... Trevon Scott just standing at the top of key holding the ball out in front of him and Naji just slapping it away leading to a dunk... Jaevin getting the ball stripped from him numerous times... Jarron had 4 turnovers on lazy passes... Xavier punched UC in the mouth

By the way, where do you get +/- stats? I haven't found any free sites with them.

I agree the whole team played bad (minus Maw, Williams and Diarra), but Vogt was terrible on defense.

I don't get the forums refusal to acknowledge just how bad defensively Vogt is. Maybe it's because it doesn't stand out that much, since he is worst at help defense. Vogt is a guy who should be used situationally for his offensive ability, but we need to have another option when the other team exposes his lack of defense.

A healthy Sorolla is not the solution, he is just as bad defensively (possibly worse), worse at rebounding and worse on the offensive end.

Vogt doesn't have the foot speed to guard guys off of screens or guard smaller guys. The shots being made over him aren't that tough, teams hit them because he is too far back off his man. There's not much Vogt can do to improve either, he doesn't have the foot speed to guard both the shot and the drive.

We need to be able to either change defenses (a zone of some sort) to hide Vogt's inability to move, play Diarra or go small. I like Diarra because he is statistically and eye-test our best defender (DRTG 84.7, next best is Scott at 88.9, Vogt is 94.4) and rebounder (14.2 TRB/40, next best is Scott at 12.5, Vogt averages 9.7). Diarra is lacking offensively, but he has the ability to improve quickly on the offensive end, since his problems are mental (lack of experience mostly). Vogt isn't going to improve defensively (at least in this system) because he just lacks the physical ability and nothing is going to change that.

 

[cincrulz11]

anybody still proclaiming diarra over Vogt just needs to stop.


its not even close.


in diarra's best game he still had a turnover rate of 50. he's also still got a 6.3 fc/40 (the thing vogt was bashed on for until he's proven to cut it down).



jones would have slaughtered diarra down low. if anybody truly thinks diarra could have stopped him, you need to see the eye doc.

 

[cincyalum2014]

anybody still proclaiming diarra over Vogt just needs to stop.


its not even close.


in diarra's best game he still had a turnover rate of 50. he's also still got a 6.3 fc/40 (the thing vogt was bashed on for until he's proven to cut it down).



jones would have slaughtered diarra down low. if anybody truly thinks diarra could have stopped him, you need to see the eye doc.

Most of these so called rebounds Diarra is putting on the stat sheet are of shots that bang of the rim and falls right to him, he is hardly down low battling for tough rebounds, he is lost 99% of the time, he is much like Quadri Moore in terms of everyone holding there breath when ever he touches the ball.

I've said it before, imagine where this team would be without Vogt...

 

[skyblade]

anybody still proclaiming diarra over Vogt just needs to stop.


its not even close.


in diarra's best game he still had a turnover rate of 50. he's also still got a 6.3 fc/40 (the thing vogt was bashed on for until he's proven to cut it down).



jones would have slaughtered diarra down low. if anybody truly thinks diarra could have stopped him, you need to see the eye doc.

Diarra and Jones barely played at the same time. However, the short period in the second half where Diarra was in, Xaiver went down low to Jones and Diarra forced Jones to take a bad shot that didn't even come close to going in. Vogt on the other hand got beat badly by Jones until we started providing help.

 

[skyblade]

Most of these so called rebounds Diarra is putting on the stat sheet are of shots that bang of the rim and falls right to him, he is hardly down low battling for tough rebounds, he is lost 99% of the time, he is much like Quadri Moore in terms of everyone holding there breath when ever he touches the ball.

I've said it before, imagine where this team would be without Vogt...

Diarra battles far more than Vogt for tough rebounds. If you aren't seeing that, you aren't watching the games.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

Diarra battles far more than Vogt for tough rebounds. If you aren't seeing that, you aren't watching the games.

Vogt is a million times better than Diarra... If u arent seeing that ur not watching