Xavier

[UCalum08]

On a side discussion: I can't get involved in the great debate about our system/coaching/players because it can be never ending and we do not control that. However, last night's atmosphere was amazing. It felt like a playoff game, everyone so in tune and focused on every single play. I always find it amazing the support UC gets when its the shootout but we can't get that every home game? The bandwagon fans come out for one night only, and if we lose everyone just harps about how much better X is than UC.

Just because X has beat us more in the series in the past 15 years doesn't equate that they have a better program. Has X made the NCAA tourney 5 straight years and had better success than UC? No. My point is, its one game a year that really does not hold any importance except for fans to make the opposing fans feel inferior.

Basketball at Xavier is their staple, that is their main sport and only profitable sport. Of course they are going to drain a ton of money into their program and make it the focal point. Totally different situation at UC. Xavier should have a good program, it would be foolish to think and say otherwise.

We as fans need to worry about UC's program and how as fan's we can make it better.

 

[L-T]

On a side discussion: I can't get involved in the great debate about our system/coaching/players because it can be never ending and we do not control that. However, last night's atmosphere was amazing. It felt like a playoff game, everyone so in tune and focused on every single play. I always find it amazing the support UC gets when its the shootout but we can't get that every home game? The bandwagon fans come out for one night only, and if we lose everyone just harps about how much better X is than UC.

Just because X has beat us more in the series in the past 15 years doesn't equate that they have a better program. Has X made the NCAA tourney 5 straight years and had better success than UC? No. My point is, its one game a year that really does not hold any importance except for fans to make the opposing fans feel inferior.

Basketball at Xavier is their staple, that is their main sport and only profitable sport. Of course they are going to drain a ton of money into their program and make it the focal point. Totally different situation at UC. Xavier should have a good program, it would be foolish to think and say otherwise.

We as fans need to worry about UC's program and how as fan's we can make it better.

2005-2012>>>>7 straight appearances
1 Elite 8
3 Sweet 16s
2 second rounds
1 first round

 

[Doogle]

2005-2012>>>>7 straight appearances
1 Elite 8
3 Sweet 16s
2 second rounds
1 first round

Dude...it's all a matter of dates. From '10-'14 UC has had more success. From '05-'12 X had more. From '90-'05 I'd take UC. X was better in the '80s, UC has had the better traditional program. And so on. I've always felt that was an apples and oranges comparison between 2 schools that couldn't be more different in every way.

The only thing I've ever felt after UC wins a shootout is relief, because I grow weary of hearing all the nonsense about what a superior school Xavier is in every way. It's not. Step outside of Cincinnati and nobody thinks twice about Xavier. The big state school with the funding, research and nationally ranked programs is the one people know about. Now, am I saying X isn't a good school? Of course not. It's just a silly comparison and the Shootout gives a sliver of obnoxious X fans reason to hurl invective. We should celebrate and appreciate both schools for what they are, play the game and move on. There's no shame in losing to Xavier, just disappointment because it seems as if lady luck always shines on their side of the parkway when it comes to this game.

 

[Doogle]

Someone earlier said there was nothing wrong with recruiting the Shaqs and KJs of the world. There isn't. What you can't do is fill your roster with those kinds of players and not have a specialist or two on your roster...e.g. a shot blocker or pure long-range shooter. Imagine being able to check that kid from Miami I spoke about earlier into a game where a team is packing in the zone and outside shooting is essential. Right now, that guy doesn't exist so KJ and Sanders eat those minutes and fill them with bricks.

 

[M64W]

JUST NOT THAT GOOD

We have been holding out hope that this team was not as bad as what it appeared. They did play hard, and the difference between UC and X is not that great. But I agree that X has been better, have better basketball players, can shoot the ball and UC can't, etc. After all is said and done, UC is not that good. Yes, they will be better next year, but it will be awhile--maybe never--be as good as they were back in the day!

 

[cincrulz11]

Both. We are inefficient as a slow tempo team. I don't really know how else I can spell that out for you. The 11-8 ratio isn't going to magically change over the course of the rest of the season. That # is real. It is the result of the approach we are taking the majority of the time. And it's not good enough.

Here are 2 charts. First one is for pace.






Second one is for offensive efficiency.








To me it's pretty clear where the issue is.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

2005-2012>>>>7 straight appearances
1 Elite 8
3 Sweet 16s
2 second rounds
1 first round

L-T is back. The gangs all here. Welcome Back!!!

 

[TheLongHaul]

It is actually the exact opposite. You should listen to his radio shows.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen Caupain try to push it only for Mick to motion him to slow it down.

I like Mick, but I take everything he says with a huge grain of salt.

 

[Shoemaker]

I'm still stunned somebody actually believes Dayton is a better program than UC

 

[cincrulz11]

I like Mick, but I take everything he says with a huge grain of salt.

Coach talk is coach talk. Nobody says anything important or useful about their own team. Why should they.

 

[TheLongHaul]

We've been trying to rebuild this thing using "combo guards". They have been decent at ball handling but not great. We sure could use a true point (Jennifer) so we can move a guy like Caupain over. Putting Cobb out there with Caupain would be half the battle since they can play a little of both. KJ has been very one dimensional and he's not been great at that one dimension.

I think (hope) Evans will add the other dimension we are looking for on the wing. I think we are 1 year away from being really good and 2 years from being great.

I think next year has to be their year. And I say that because in 2 years they won't have Ellis or Deberry so essentially no big man. Of course that could change and they could recruit someone but at this point I'm not expecting much. It has to be a JUCO or transfer.

 

[cincrulz11]

I think next year has to be their year. And I say that because in 2 years they won't have Ellis or Deberry so essentially no big man. Of course that could change and they could recruit someone but at this point I'm not expecting much. It has to be a JUCO or transfer.

We could hope Moore gets his head on straight and then you have clark and moore.



By Clark's 3rd year he should be pretty lethal. Caupain/Clark and anybody out of KJ/Morman/Moore/incoming freshman should be a solid core.


Caupain and Clark were huge gets and should be very solid 4 year guys.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I think next year has to be their year. And I say that because in 2 years they won't have Ellis or Deberry so essentially no big man. Of course that could change and they could recruit someone but at this point I'm not expecting much. It has to be a JUCO or transfer.

DeBerry can be replaced pretty easily.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

We could hope Moore gets his head on straight and then you have clark and moore.



By Clark's 3rd year he should be pretty lethal. Caupain/Clark and anybody out of KJ/Morman/Moore/incoming freshman should be a solid core.


Caupain and Clark were huge gets and should be very solid 4 year guys.

A key to Clark's developement is finding a good wing player and some one who can consistently deliver him the ball. Something we have struggled with all year.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

A key to Clark's developement is finding a good wing player and some one who can consistently deliver him the ball. Something we have struggled with all year.

Morman can do that. In fact, he actually threw a bounce pass into the post last night! Something KJ has not done a single time all year. And he did it because he plays strong and aggressive and didn't allow himself to get pushed out behind the NBA 3 point line on the wing just to catch the ball. He was only 18 feet away from the hoop when he got it, instead of 26 feet away. But some people (not you I know you want him to get more minutes) are so scared for some reason of what might happen if he gets extended minutes, they want to stuck with the same old rotation like everything is just fine!

 

[indydoug]

Here are 2 charts. First one is for pace.






Second one is for offensive efficiency.








To me it's pretty clear where the issue is.

To underscore your point, UC is overall #46 in Kenpom. Of the 45 teams ranked above them ony two are less efficient on offense than UC: #31 Florida and #23 SDSU who are #119 and #150 respectively. UC is#107. One we beat and the other is 13-13 overall. We need basketball players if we are going to play at the #337 tempo!

 

[TheLongHaul]

DeBerry can be replaced pretty easily.

Easily is a very strong word, especially considering Micks inability to recruit big men. And DeBerry is a heck of a backup. I think he'll be pretty solid next year IF he gets in better shape. Very few teams have a backup big man that needs to be doubled on the post.

 

[L-T]

Morman can do that. In fact, he actually threw a bounce pass into the post last night! Something KJ has not done a single time all year. And he did it because he plays strong and aggressive and didn't allow himself to get pushed out behind the NBA 3 point line on the wing just to catch the ball. He was only 18 feet away from the hoop when he got it, instead of 26 feet away. But some people (not you I know you want him to get more minutes) are so scared for some reason of what might happen if he gets extended minutes, they want to stuck with the same old rotation like everything is just fine!

Morman is "by far" the best on the team of consistently making the entry pass to the low post. In fact, he is the best at doing that of almost any player I've seen under Mick. He's also one of the best at penetrating and drawing the defense to him. He's got some warts, but his lack of minutes is mind-boggeling.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Morman can do that. In fact, he actually threw a bounce pass into the post last night! Something KJ has not done a single time all year. And he did it because he plays strong and aggressive and didn't allow himself to get pushed out behind the NBA 3 point line on the wing just to catch the ball. He was only 18 feet away from the hoop when he got it, instead of 26 feet away. But some people (not you I know you want him to get more minutes) are so scared for some reason of what might happen if he gets extended minutes, they want to stuck with the same old rotation like everything is just fine!

I also need to see it done consistently Morman is not a point guard. His outside shot will never draw double teams off the big from the wing.Not impressed with anyone deliverying the ball to the bigs. It has gotten better but still needs work. i said all that knowing that we killed tulane and X in the paint but still have plenty of meat on that bone. Thats one reason I'm OK wth the slow approach to the offense. we are getting good looks. when we knock down a occassional jumber or 3 pt shot we win with our d and inside game.We don't need to run up and down the floor to be effective. hit a few shots. When Cobb, Caupain,KJ and Sanders hit a few shots we win. We out scored X 42-16 in the paint. We did that without shooting the ball well. We can win and have won with thi approach but we need to make a few shots. Gosh i hope Evans and jenifer are the real deals. That would allow TC to move to the 2 and give us another guy who cna spread out the defense.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Morman is "by far" the best on the team of consistently making the entry pass to the low post. In fact, he is the best at doing that of almost any player I've seen under Mick. He's also one of the best at penetrating and drawing the defense to him. He's got some warts, but his lack of minutes is mind-boggeling.

L_T the issue is that if he delivers the ball his outside shot is not going to draw the double off the big. He really needs to improve that part of his game to really make it effective.