2016-2017 Season

[spinal070508]

While true, you have to cut them a little slack because a) they're freshmen, and b) when you get very limited minutes, it's hard to get into any rhythm. They haven't really gotten much chance to get involved in any big games. I was okay with them not playing much then, since they were still adjusting to D1 college basketball, but that's why you see them get a lot of playing time against the cupcakes: to adjust to the college game. You may see the 200+ RPI teams we play as cupcakes, but they're still wayyyy better than any high school teams they were playing against just last year. They need an adjustment period. I think they're currently getting seasoned and will be ready to go for the majority of conference play. Especially Cumberland.

And I agree on giving them slack as freshman. I'm not saying they won't be good players. I'm saying I don't see them having any type of impact in games this season.

 

[#BearcatNation]

And I agree on giving them slack as freshman. I'm not saying they won't be good players. I'm saying I don't see them having any type of impact in games this season.

Yeah I don't think we're really far off. They'll need to have some sort of impact, but we shouldn't ever need 20 minutes from Scott nor Brooks. If we do, something has gone wrong.

That said, I'd love to see Cumberland get 25 or so on occasion, especially if he's hot.

 

[spinal070508]

Yeah I don't think we're really far off. They'll need to have some sort of impact, but we shouldn't ever need 20 minutes from Scott nor Brooks. If we do, something has gone wrong.

That said, I'd love to see Cumberland get 25 or so on occasion, especially if he's hot.

I think he will end up being a 15ppg player during his career but I want to see him get some actual minutes against a quality defense to see if his shots keep falling.

 

[waterhead]

Scott, Brooks and Cumberland have looked good against the cupcakes so far but they were non existent against the 3 good teams on the schedule. You cannot say a player is coming along nicely when they only play good against weak competition. They will be be better next year but this year Cumberland will be the only one that contributes any meaningfull minutes. Let them get through the first few conference games and the xu game then we can see if they are progressing.

Coming along nicely isn't all about scoring.

Scott is not going to be called in the game to score. If he has to come in he will need to rebound, set picks, assist, not turnover, etc. He does most of that well. Can he get some easy buckets from rebounds or off a nice pass or a mid range jumper when open from time to time sure...but it won't be his primary job. If Washington is out...Clark should be in...and vice versa. Just play D, hustle and facilitate. He can contribute a few points here and there.

On the other hand...when Cumberland comes in he will be asked to score a little and take some shots so we will see with him.

 

[waterhead]

I think he will end up being a 15ppg player during his career but I want to see him get some actual minutes against a quality defense to see if his shots keep falling.

I'm not sure I buy into the quality D thing TOO much. I mean if you take an open shot you should make it against any team. He's not going to be asked to shoot with a man in his face against bad teams or good teams.

Unless it's a shot clock beater we don't take a lot of bad looks as a team from 3. They are usually open. He just needs to find his rhythm by getting off a few shots. He can't be passing up open looks and he's got to get off more than 1 or 2 to get in rhythm. KJ and Troy don't seem to have a problem finding 4-6 opportunities from 3 and it's not like they are creating their own looks.

 

[waterhead]

By meaningfull minutes I meant points scored. They may be able to give Washington breathers but the offense will drop with them on the floor.

I want to see if Cumberland can keep up the hot shooting or if it was just a result of garbage competition.

The offense would drop even if Gary Clark was the one replacing Washington so yah...it's going to fall off when your best scorer is out. And yes Clark is going to be better than Scott at scoring. But hopefully we are only talking like 5 minutes per half. Washington probably averages about 2 points every 5 minutes...so we lose 5 points or so without Scott making a single bucket. If Scott has to play 20 minutes...it will be harder to make up for Washington.

It's better than having Justin Jackson come in his freshman year. Scott can actually play a little offense as well as the hustle stuff.

 

[spinal070508]

I'm not sure I buy into the quality D thing TOO much. I mean if you take an open shot you should make it against any team. He's not going to be asked to shoot with a man in his face against bad teams or good teams.

Unless it's a shot clock beater we don't take a lot of bad looks as a team from 3. They are usually open. He just needs to find his rhythm by getting off a few shots. He can't be passing up open looks and he's got to get off more than 1 or 2 to get in rhythm. KJ and Troy don't seem to have a problem finding 4-6 opportunities from 3 and it's not like they are creating their own looks.

You have to get open to be able to have an open look. A better defense will limit those opportunities compared to a cupcake defense.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Cumberland needs to play extended minutes bc he's shown that he can score in bunches. The longer he's out there, the better chance we have of riding his hot hand for stretches. His development is critical. Scott, Brooks, and aJenifer can all play in few minutes spurts only if the game calls for it bc we aren't desperate for their scoring. Jenifer and Scott just go all out and raise the energy level, and Brooks has 5 fouls and needs to protect the hoop, get defensive rebounds, and know where to be to get opportunities near the hoop. I don't think Brooks is ready to be a constant post presence on offense. He has definitely shown potential and has decent touch with that easy half hook and uses the glass well. But he's obviously light years behind Washington in general when it comes to floor presence.

 

[waterhead]

You have to get open to be able to have an open look. A better defense will limit those opportunities compared to a cupcake defense.

I understand that but KJ and Troy aren't exactly breaking guys down off the dribble to get open. Most of their 3's come from receiving a pass. Cumberland has a quicker release than both of them and he's taller. Shouldn't be an issue IMO...as long as he's willing to take open looks...

 

[spinal070508]

I understand that but KJ and Troy aren't exactly breaking guys down off the dribble to get open. Most of their 3's come from receiving a pass. Cumberland has a quicker release than both of them and he's taller. Shouldn't be an issue IMO...as long as he's willing to take open looks...

I'm not saying that Cumberland needs to create his own shot off the dribble. There is a reason that Troy and KJ are getting open looks from 3. They have been playing against bad teams with no defense. Plus they have not shot well from 3 some teams haven't been keying in on them. My point is that better defenses will be able to reduce the amount of open looks from 3. The best way to get Cumberland open for 3s would be to throw it in to Washington or Clark and let them kick it back out if/when the double team comes.

 

[waterhead]

You have to get open to be able to have an open look. A better defense will limit those opportunities compared to a cupcake defense.

If KJ takes 5 threes 4 of them are set shots and 1 is probably forced by shot clock. Troy can actually get off a shot on his own by using a pick here and there. So I would say 3-5 of his are set shots. They get those set shots by mainly standing on the perimeter. I think Cumberland is capable of standing in a spot. Neither KJ or Troy has a step back 3 game. They aren't running around at a torrid pace off picks waiting to release a 3 in a split second.

They get the ball inside and wait for a kick out or they pass around the perimeter. Getting off a shot happens at a little quicker pace against a quality D but again...Cumberland is armed with more tools to get that done. He's taller and has a quicker shot.

 

[Jon Rycek]

I'm not saying that Cumberland needs to create his own shot off the dribble. There is a reason that Troy and KJ are getting open looks from 3. They have been playing against bad teams with no defense. Plus they have not shot well from 3 some teams haven't been keying in on them. My point is that better defenses will be able to reduce the amount of open looks from 3. The best way to get Cumberland open for 3s would be to throw it in to Washington or Clark and let them kick it back out if/when the double team comes.

Okay well "better" teams don't necessarily mean better defenses. Cumberland will get shots if he is in the game and isn't afraid to take them.

 

[waterhead]

I'm not saying that Cumberland needs to create his own shot off the dribble. There is a reason that Troy and KJ are getting open looks from 3. They have been playing against bad teams with no defense. Plus they have not shot well from 3 some teams haven't been keying in on them. My point is that better defenses will be able to reduce the amount of open looks from 3. The best way to get Cumberland open for 3s would be to throw it in to Washington or Clark and let them kick it back out if/when the double team comes.

Against our 3 toughest opponents KJ got off 3, 4, and 5

Troy got off 5, 6, and 7

The fact they haven't made many means it's time for Cumberland to get his chance

 

[waterhead]

By meaningfull minutes I meant points scored. They may be able to give Washington breathers but the offense will drop with them on the floor.

I want to see if Cumberland can keep up the hot shooting or if it was just a result of garbage competition.

I would also mention...Troy and KJ have shot garbage % against almost ALL competition so far and that includes all the patsies we have played. I'm not even sure if their % would be better if we took out ISU, Butler, and Rhode Island. The idea that Cumberland's good games against the bad teams is somehow not worthy of notice seems a bit odd. At least he has shown the ability to reel off some open shots.

 

[waterhead]

Cumberland needs to play extended minutes bc he's shown that he can score in bunches. The longer he's out there, the better chance we have of riding his hot hand for stretches. His development is critical. Scott, Brooks, and aJenifer can all play in few minutes spurts only if the game calls for it bc we aren't desperate for their scoring. Jenifer and Scott just go all out and raise the energy level, and Brooks has 5 fouls and needs to protect the hoop, get defensive rebounds, and know where to be to get opportunities near the hoop. I don't think Brooks is ready to be a constant post presence on offense. He has definitely shown potential and has decent touch with that easy half hook and uses the glass well. But he's obviously light years behind Washington in general when it comes to floor presence.

I agree here...we need to keep building up Cumberland. We have two options to improve offensive production at the 2. Play Cumberland directly for KJ or play Jenifer and slide Troy. Well Troy has been just as abysmal so far from deep as KJ...so this does nothing for us really. Cumberland seems to be the answer here so I hope he keeps it going and can build a little more confidence tonight. I am just hoping he can get off at least 4 threes and make 2 of them.

 

[waterhead]

I forgot to mention the Cronin pre game interview. A couple of things stood out. He likes the way Marshall runs their offense and said he showed the video to the players to tell them...this is how it should be done. I don't get why in 10 years he can't get his team to run an offense the way he says he wants to? It's a coaches job to make it happen. Playing D for him is non negotiable. Why isn't running offense the way he wants non negotiable? Take a player out and tell him..."you're not setting picks or making extra passes etc...so you're riding pine until you understand".

Also he mentioned Gary Clark was defensive POY in conference...but at our banquet KJ got the award and it wasn't even close.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I like Evans at the "2" and Cumberland at the "3".

 

[waterhead]

I like Evans at the "2" and Cumberland at the "3".

Probably not a bad idea

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Probably not a bad idea

It's happening.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I forgot to mention the Cronin pre game interview. A couple of things stood out. He likes the way Marshall runs their offense and said he showed the video to the players to tell them...this is how it should be done. I don't get why in 10 years he can't get his team to run an offense the way he says he wants to? It's a coaches job to make it happen. Playing D for him is non negotiable. Why isn't running offense the way he wants non negotiable? Take a player out and tell him..."you're not setting picks or making extra passes etc...so you're riding pine until you understand".

Also he mentioned Gary Clark was defensive POY in conference...but at our banquet KJ got the award and it wasn't even close.

Kevin Johnson is Coach Cronin's dream player. I mean that seriously. He loves the program guys who work hard and are coachable. Johnson has looked better since he's been more decisive on offense. He hasn't been standing and holding. And he's getting the memo on scoring from 8-15 feet. Opens up world's of possibilities and space for everyone when your guards can do that in a 1 in offense.